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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:54 am 
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"But there were games where he just looked flat out, inexplicably bad. He made mistakes that a HOF QB should not make, regardless of who is calling the plays and catching the balls. Those mistakes cost us games. "

Here's the thing-- so many plays talked about as 'mistakes Ben made that a HOF QB should not make' were very likely NOT Ben mistakes. He made some fantastic throws where the WR made a bizarre read or ran the route a yard off or had the ball go right through his hands when he dropped the winning TD right in the guy's fingers and so on.

I am struggling to remember even the number of big mistakes he made that would fill one hand. In a 19 game season.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:55 am 
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SteelerChef wrote:
We have the least strategic OC in the nfl. He literally operates like its 1957 instead of 2017

We have the best RB. We have the best all around WR and the best deep threat WR. We have the best QB. We have a top 5ish OL in the league and the best Steeler OL in close to 15 to 20 years. We should be gunning for 40 or more every game.

Haley fucks up 2 things HUGE.

1ST and foremost he runs a very small field offense......even the long bombs are mostly run down the sideline and try to be faster than the DB. Small field plays into the hands of the defense. Its what you run when you dont have a decent qb or offensive weapons. Particularly in a league that for the most part is largely ok surrendering yds and FGs

2NDLY the huge majority of his offensive plan is just line up and beat your guy. Football fans tend to like that bullshit because its simple it sounds good and they can see it. In the modern nfl DCs have figured out how to beat mere offensive talent advantages with more complex schemes. Especially if the offense is happy with 5 yards at the expense of 50. See above

the best STD post of all time

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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:01 pm 
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I almost wish we had a shitty starting RB so that we could not at all depend on the run to win.

I remember the WC loss to Baltimore when we had no starting calibre RB and the o line did not play its best game. Ben sucked. SUCKED. Missed wide open guys.

I am on board the blame-Haley-train.

But it is very easy to blame the OC.

I have been told that every near pic and actual pic Ben threw this season was the fault of the receiver. I am incredulous. I watched Ben throw the ball directly to ILBs back peddling. I fail to see that as simply Haely's fault.

If Haley is consistently shitty and DCs know how to negate individual talent, then what explains the wild inconsistency in the offense? The offense under Haley has on occasion obliterated other teams. Massacre. I guess that's on Ben. It's Haley only when the offense is not hanging 30 to 40 burgers.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:18 pm 
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I watched Ben throw the ball directly to ILBs back peddling. I fail to see that as simply Haely's fault.

Probably not-- but when your inexperienced and frequently mistake-prone TE runs behind instead of in front of the coverage, like he's supposed to do... it'll make even a HOF QB look like ass. (thinking of Baltimore game, in particular)

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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:47 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Quote:
I watched Ben throw the ball directly to ILBs back peddling. I fail to see that as simply Haely's fault.

Probably not-- but when your inexperienced and frequently mistake-prone TE runs behind instead of in front of the coverage, like he's supposed to do... it'll make even a HOF QB look like ass. (thinking of Baltimore game, in particular)
Did you forget the interception toward the end of the game (don't remember the opponent) where he attempted a back shoulder pass while scrambling to David Johnson, I think it was. He had no separation along the sidelines and threw it so the DB could just step in front and snag the pass. Yeah, that wasn't BR's fault either, right? BR was yelling at himself on the sidelines.

Besides, even if the James did what he was supposed to do, why would BR throw a pass when the LB was running right into the passing lane? I suppose a lineman got in his face and he couldn't see it.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:49 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Quote:
I watched Ben throw the ball directly to ILBs back peddling. I fail to see that as simply Haely's fault.

Probably not-- but when your inexperienced and frequently mistake-prone TE runs behind instead of in front of the coverage, like he's supposed to do... it'll make even a HOF QB look like ass. (thinking of Baltimore game, in particular)


As I say, I do not find my position to be indefeasible (I was thinking Baltimore, too!).

Alas, just as political life subsists on opinion rather than knowledge, so too football discussion forums.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:26 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Quote:
I watched Ben throw the ball directly to ILBs back peddling. I fail to see that as simply Haely's fault.

Probably not-- but when your inexperienced and frequently mistake-prone TE runs behind instead of in front of the coverage, like he's supposed to do... it'll make even a HOF QB look like ass. (thinking of Baltimore game, in particular)


As I say, I do not find my position to be indefeasible (I was thinking Baltimore, too!).

Alas, just as political life subsists on opinion rather than knowledge, so too football discussion forums.

true

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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:36 pm 
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Ben is certainly not a perfect QB, and he absolutely makes some shitty throws. But there are plenty of times when he is a victim to what and who he is dealing with.
The aforementioned Rats game for instance. The first pick, right after the half, where he missed DJ was a poor throw, plain and simple. I'm sure he would acknowledge that. The second interception, however, was a combination of poor play design, predictable play call, and bad route, and overall execution. The QB is making a semi blind throw out of PA. He is counting on a solid play fake by his RB that forces the ILB to honor the run. Instead we had a half ass effort from the star RB that allowed the LB to run directly in to the passing lane. With that, the TE must adjust his route to present himself to the ball. Instead, he ran between defenders. I'd put the QB at about 4th or 5th on the list of culprits for this one. The OC would top that list.

While Ben is a damn good QB, he isn't immune from his stinkers and brain farts. But he does a lot more right than he does wrong, and he certainly makes this predictable, neanderthal offense better.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:41 pm 
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said it better than I can at this point

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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:06 pm 
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It's really a shame that Deuce pulled Tomlin & Ben aside and told them that Haley and the offense are completely hands off. That the design, implementation, and execution of the offense are 100% the responsibility of the OC and that as HC & QB they are not allowed to change or meddle in any of it.

In Tomlin's case, he is only allowed to show up and watch what unfolds on Sunday.

Ben is here to run what is called without question. He is not allowed input either.

There is a rumor floating around that Haley now installs most of the defense as well as having final say on draft picks.

Being the kid of a former employee sure does have its advantages. I'm surprised Tomlin even gets an extension given that Haley is really the man in charge.


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