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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:39 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
As usual, Jeemie-- we're watching a different game on Sundays. Just the way it is.


I wish I could watch those games where Ben is always perfect and just hamstrung by all the mediocre talent and coaches.

Hopefully the $100 M he gets paid comforts him over his awareness that everyone around him is screwing up his legacy.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:07 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
As usual, Jeemie-- we're watching a different game on Sundays. Just the way it is.


I wish I could watch those games where Ben is always perfect and just hamstrung by all the mediocre talent and coaches.

Hopefully the $100 M he gets paid comforts him over his awareness that everyone around him is screwing up his legacy.


I do not know enough about football to consider my position on Ben indefeasible and so I am going to stop short of some dogmatic position, but I'm with you Jeemie. The stink emanating from the offense includes Ben. Last year away from home was garbage.

And while he played well in Foxboro and Denver, I've seen what appears to me to be a lot of less-than-Hall-of-Fame play in the play offs the last few years.

Edit: And I would like to add how delicious it is to hear people going on about how Ben was hamstrung with JAG receivers this year when previously it has been argued that Ben makes the receivers, not the receivers Ben.

I wonder what Ben's last few seasons would look like without AB. I'd wager it would not be stellar. I'd go so far as to say that Ben's trip to the hall is in jeopardy without AB.

The next time I hear someone say Ben makes AB will be the next time I laugh in someone's face. I don't buy it for a second.

I still take Ben before any QB not named Brady or Rodgers, but the ball washing strikes me as ridiculous.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:09 am 
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It's hardly ball-washing to remind you that the weather away from Pittsburgh was a serious issue-- football outsiders had the Steelers as facing the 2nd worst weather of any team in the NFL-- including at home, where they had an unusually fair-weather year. Huge factor in Buffalo, Cleveland, Washington, e.g.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:27 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
It's hardly ball-washing to remind you that the weather away from Pittsburgh was a serious issue-- football outsiders had the Steelers as facing the 2nd worst weather of any team in the NFL-- including at home, where they had an unusually fair-weather year. Huge factor in Buffalo, Cleveland, Washington, e.g.


The road shittiness goes back beyond this season.

Perhaps not ball-washing, but ball-dusting. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:28 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
It's hardly ball-washing to remind you that the weather away from Pittsburgh was a serious issue-- football outsiders had the Steelers as facing the 2nd worst weather of any team in the NFL-- including at home, where they had an unusually fair-weather year. Huge factor in Buffalo, Cleveland, Washington, e.g.


It's ball washing when suggestions that Ben was merely a CONTRIBUTOR to the uneven play of the Steelers the past few years...when we AGREE that other factors such as talent and coaching also contributed...are met with vigorous denials by the usual suspects on these boards.

When the mere suggestion that Ben is not as consistent as some other HoF QBs in this league are met with howls of "If you think Ben sucks, wait until he leaves"...as if anyone saying Ben is a contributor to the issues this team has faced is equivalent to saying "Ben sucks".

THAT is what annoys me when these discussions happen.

And now we get the weather excuse.

Let me tell you...I first became aware of Ben Roethlisberger back when he played for Miami (OH) and he was playing in a very windy game where the other QB's passes were floating and fluttering like dying birds, but Ben was still zipping the ball down the field.

And then when he played in the hurricane game in Miami as a rookie making his first start and did just fine.

I don't want to hear it about the weather. HoF QBs rise above the weather.

_________________
Bill Walsh: “Your ability to make good judgments is much easier on Thursday night than during the heat of the game."

R S: "All praise MJG. Fuck the NUT!"


Last edited by Jeemie on Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:31 am 
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I think the recent commentary from one of the NFL talking heads that Ben played perhaps his best season ever last year was accurate. Given what he is asked to work with in terms of targets and scheme and play calling and philosophy that doesn't really suit his game... I think he was a huge reason they weren't absolutely abysmal in the red zone last year. Could he have played better and made fewer mistakes or made his precision throws more precision or chosen better guys to trust or pushed back more on the play caller or HC? Sure. 100%.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:31 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
It's hardly ball-washing to remind you that the weather away from Pittsburgh was a serious issue-- football outsiders had the Steelers as facing the 2nd worst weather of any team in the NFL-- including at home, where they had an unusually fair-weather year. Huge factor in Buffalo, Cleveland, Washington, e.g.


It's ball washing when suggestions that Ben was merely a CONTRIBUTOR to the uneven play of the Steelers the past few years...when we AGREE that other factors such as talent and coaching also contributed...are met with vigorous denials by the usual suspects on these boards.

When the mere suggestion that Ben is not as consistent as some other HoF QBs in this league re met with howls of "If you think Ben sucks, wait until he leaves"...as if anyone saying Ben is a contributor to the issues this team has faced is equivalent to saying "Ben sucks".

THAT is what annoys me when these discussions happen.


In fairness, only KC pulls out the bolded. To which the proper response is: I'm glad you agree that Ben sucks. I agree that whomever replaces him will suck even more. This is an appropriate response only for KC, however.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:33 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
I think the recent commentary from one of the NFL talking heads that Ben played perhaps his best season ever last year was accurate. Given what he is asked to work with in terms of targets and scheme and play calling and philosophy that doesn't really suit his game... I think he was a huge reason they weren't absolutely abysmal in the red zone last year. Could he have played better and made fewer mistakes or made his precision throws more precision or chosen better guys to trust or pushed back more on the play caller or HC? Sure. 100%.


Outside of Denver and Foxboro, I cannot remember any great post season performances from Ben since 2010.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:35 am 
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B2B, you're my favorite poster and a fount of football knowledge. I read everything you post and I click on topics specifically (and sometimes, solely) because I've seen that you've posted in them. You know much more about football than I could ever hope to know. And to top it off, you're the most die-hard poster on this site, as evidenced by, among other things, your avatar bet with nearly a dozen posters on the premise that the Steelers would win out and make the playoffs. That's, perhaps, what I appreciate most -- that you seem to genuinely enjoy following this team and discussing them, whereas so many other posters seemingly exist to complain. So I'm saying that I very much appreciate your football insight and your spirit.

That said, at this point I have to take what you say about Ben with a grain of salt. I have no doubt that there are outside factors that contributed to his poor play last year. Haley, undersized and underperforming receiving targets, the weather. But there were games where he just looked flat out, inexplicably bad. He made mistakes that a HOF QB should not make, regardless of who is calling the plays and catching the balls. Those mistakes cost us games.

The way I look at Ben is, you've got to take the good with the bad. Like you've said, his highlight reel is insane. He is an incredible playmaker and we can win any game with him under center. But he also lays his share of stinkers. He is capable of being deadly accurate and picking apart a defense with surgical precision, but he's also inconsistent and can follow a tour de force performance with a miserable effort.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben wants a TE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:47 am 
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We have the least strategic OC in the nfl. He literally operates like its 1957 instead of 2017

We have the best RB. We have the best all around WR and the best deep threat WR. We have the best QB. We have a top 5ish OL in the league and the best Steeler OL in close to 15 to 20 years. We should be gunning for 40 or more every game.

Haley fucks up 2 things HUGE.

1ST and foremost he runs a very small field offense......even the long bombs are mostly run down the sideline and try to be faster than the DB. Small field plays into the hands of the defense. Its what you run when you dont have a decent qb or offensive weapons. Particularly in a league that for the most part is largely ok surrendering yds and FGs

2NDLY the huge majority of his offensive plan is just line up and beat your guy. Football fans tend to like that bullshit because its simple it sounds good and they can see it. In the modern nfl DCs have figured out how to beat mere offensive talent advantages with more complex schemes. Especially if the offense is happy with 5 yards at the expense of 50. See above


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