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 Post subject: Re: Ben Announces He'll Be Back
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:17 pm 
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955876 wrote:
I wonder what happens to offensive efficiency over the course of a season if some of those 40 yard bombs on 3rd & 1 and less are replaced with the QB sneak. First down % goes up and some of those extended drives might at the least lead to some Todd Haley TDs.

Haley doesn't call them
Ben doesn't audible to them
Captain Cliche evidently isn't responsible for such things so I suppose he gets a pass here.

The way I see it, if Ben has an issue with how the offense is run then he should be doing more to address it. Maybe he has or is. However, if that was the case I think the news of such would trickle out.

Funny how it seems the OC seemingly has more control & input over this team than the QB, HC, and GM. At least that's the narrative of some.

I tend to think this is more of a group cluster fuck with all of them having a hand in the inefficiency.


I'm under the impression that Ben is the one responsible for most of the 3 and 1 bombs. He's on record to that effect, I believe. Something about if the shot is there I'm taking it.

The problem is not 3rd and one 40 yard bombs. The problem is shitty play calling and execution inside the 20.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben Announces He'll Be Back
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:20 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
955876 wrote:
I wonder what happens to offensive efficiency over the course of a season if some of those 40 yard bombs on 3rd & 1 and less are replaced with the QB sneak. First down % goes up and some of those extended drives might at the least lead to some Todd Haley TDs.

Haley doesn't call them
Ben doesn't audible to them
Captain Cliche evidently isn't responsible for such things so I suppose he gets a pass here.

The way I see it, if Ben has an issue with how the offense is run then he should be doing more to address it. Maybe he has or is. However, if that was the case I think the news of such would trickle out.

Funny how it seems the OC seemingly has more control & input over this team than the QB, HC, and GM. At least that's the narrative of some.

I tend to think this is more of a group cluster fuck with all of them having a hand in the inefficiency.


I'm under the impression that Ben is the one responsible for most of the 3 and 1 bombs. He's on record to that effect, I believe. Something about if the shot is there I'm taking it.

I believe Ben and Haley both have said it's the playcall in that situation-- that it is something Haley talks about with Ben and that they don't hesitate to take deep shots. I'm not sure on the analytics of the results vs risk but it sure affected their ability to sustain drives.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben Announces He'll Be Back
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:22 pm 
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Check it:
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/06/wh ... 3rd-short/

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/12/st ... lisberger/

Haley is definitely on board with the 3rd and short bombs, but it sure seems like Ben is the one driving the train.

And I agree B2B, the 3rd and short bombs are not the problem. Redzone production is.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben Announces He'll Be Back
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:47 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
955876 wrote:
I wonder what happens to offensive efficiency over the course of a season if some of those 40 yard bombs on 3rd & 1 and less are replaced with the QB sneak. First down % goes up and some of those extended drives might at the least lead to some Todd Haley TDs.

Haley doesn't call them
Ben doesn't audible to them
Captain Cliche evidently isn't responsible for such things so I suppose he gets a pass here.

The way I see it, if Ben has an issue with how the offense is run then he should be doing more to address it. Maybe he has or is. However, if that was the case I think the news of such would trickle out.

Funny how it seems the OC seemingly has more control & input over this team than the QB, HC, and GM. At least that's the narrative of some.

I tend to think this is more of a group cluster fuck with all of them having a hand in the inefficiency.


I'm under the impression that Ben is the one responsible for most of the 3 and 1 bombs. He's on record to that effect, I believe. Something about if the shot is there I'm taking it.

The problem is not 3rd and one 40 yard bombs. The problem is shitty play calling and execution inside the 20.


I agree Ben has his hand in this issue. Thus why I said all have a hand in the inefficiency. Also, I'm not opposed to taking shots. Problem is how predictable we've become taking shots. Oh look, it's 3rd & 1 here comes the deep ball. Like clockwork.

Why does it need to be either/or? One thing being a problem doesn't mean something else isn't also an issue. Red zone play calling AND seemingly ignoring higher probability options on 3rd & short can both be part of the problem.

We do a good portion of an opposing DC's work for them with our maddening predictability. And that happens outside the 20s as well.

Speaking of RZ playcalling, remember when we had a yard to go for a TD in the AFCCG and didn't try the QB sneak? In that situation it wasn't the 40 yard bomb that did us in but the slow developing running play. Both examples of going with lower probability options and both impact offensive productivity.

Larry, Curly, and Moe doing what they do...


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 Post subject: Re: Ben Announces He'll Be Back
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:22 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
(I do think, Kodiak, that what you're saying is plausible and reasonable, but I require evidence before committing to a position.)


Precisely.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben Announces He'll Be Back
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:44 pm 
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We have shit red zone weapons for winning in condensed area on a regular basis... without great play design and play calling sequences.

When we have Green or Bryant or a youthful Heath Miller-- we score more. AB can get some and Bell has some skills in that area-- but the deficiency in Red Zone targets has been a thing here at WR since Plax left, Ward got old, and Miller faded. It seems like we've never had two at a time at near peak in forever. A guy like Gronk or Gates will SAF make your red zone efficiency look a whole lot better.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben Announces He'll Be Back
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:22 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
We have shit red zone weapons for winning in condensed area on a regular basis... without great play design and play calling sequences.

When we have Green or Bryant or a youthful Heath Miller-- we score more. AB can get some and Bell has some skills in that area-- but the deficiency in Red Zone targets has been a thing here at WR since Plax left, Ward got old, and Miller faded. It seems like we've never had two at a time at near peak in forever. A guy like Gronk or Gates will SAF make your red zone efficiency look a whole lot better.


We have the players to score in the red zone.

The play calling must be better in the red zone.

ReTodd sometimes becomes.....well, retarded.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben Announces He'll Be Back
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:51 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
We have shit red zone weapons for winning in condensed area on a regular basis... without great play design and play calling sequences.

When we have Green or Bryant or a youthful Heath Miller-- we score more. AB can get some and Bell has some skills in that area-- but the deficiency in Red Zone targets has been a thing here at WR since Plax left, Ward got old, and Miller faded. It seems like we've never had two at a time at near peak in forever. A guy like Gronk or Gates will SAF make your red zone efficiency look a whole lot better.


So with all that to consider, why not then send your QB right behind your center for 3' rather than a slow developing running play that if blown up puts you further away from your objective?

Haley can't seem to figure that out while Tomlin & Ben are complicit to the shit show...


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 Post subject: Re: Ben Announces He'll Be Back
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:11 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
mmmmkay isn't evidence, it's sarcasm.


No, denying the obvious and large sample size of a HISTORY of being unable to stop that offense and beat NE is basically saying Ben is a complete idiot.

I'm not calling Ben a complete idiot without evidence.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben Announces He'll Be Back
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:19 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
We have shit red zone weapons for winning in condensed area on a regular basis... without great play design and play calling sequences.

When we have Green or Bryant or a youthful Heath Miller-- we score more. AB can get some and Bell has some skills in that area-- but the deficiency in Red Zone targets has been a thing here at WR since Plax left, Ward got old, and Miller faded. It seems like we've never had two at a time at near peak in forever. A guy like Gronk or Gates will SAF make your red zone efficiency look a whole lot better.


We have the players to score in the red zone.

The play calling must be better in the red zone.

ReTodd sometimes becomes.....well, retarded.
I'm kinda with you on that one. Not all proficient offenses solely rely on 6'5" receivers to score all the time, be it a wide out or TE. Nobody complained when Bell was running for TD's from the ten or even 15. Stack the box and even a midget will get open in the red zone, and your 2 time SB winning HOF QB has the arm to squeeze it into tight windows. I don't disagree that a tall guy with sticky hands is desirable, but is it necessary? Do you need a 6'4" guy with 4.5 speed to get open from inside the 20?

bradshaw2ben wrote:
I'm not sure on the analytics of the results vs risk but it sure affected their ability to sustain drives.
I agree with this too. We can complain all we want about red zone efficiency, but you have to get there first.

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