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 Post subject: Re: If Edge Rusher in Rd 1 - Who
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:20 pm 
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I know who i don't want as edge rusher in R1. I don't want Auburn's Lawson. watched his entire career at auburn. he is a fraud. evaluating him based on a highlight reel is a MASSIVE mistake..


Tomlin said after drafting Jones that he was an "easy evaluation". That most certainly was a result of watching too much of his highlight reel. Especially considering how bad his workout numbers were.

If you are correct about Lawson then somebody needs to hide his tape from Tomlin. Team can't afford to draft another "pass rusher" that doesn't have the physical tools to actually rush the passer.


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 Post subject: Re: If Edge Rusher in Rd 1 - Who
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:20 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
I know who i don't want as edge rusher in R1. I don't want Auburn's Lawson. watched his entire career at auburn. he is a fraud. evaluating him based on a highlight reel is a MASSIVE mistake..


Tomlin said after drafting Jones that he was an "easy evaluation". That most certainly was a result of watching too much of his highlight reel. Especially considering how bad his workout numbers were.

If you are correct about Lawson then somebody needs to hide his tape from Tomlin. Team can't afford to draft another "pass rusher" that doesn't have the physical tools to actually rush the passer.


I'm not one of the people who say Tomlin is a potted plant, but I also don't give him 100% of the credit/blame for draft picks. Hell, I don't give him 50%. If you're placing all that on Tomlin, is Colbert a potted plant?

Fact of the matter is, the coaching staff and FO loved Jervis. They all swung and they all missed.


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 Post subject: Re: If Edge Rusher in Rd 1 - Who
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:15 pm 
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No, I don't place all of it on Tomlin and have soured on Colbert as well.

I mention Tomlin because he's the one that said "easy evaluation".

My comment is really directed at everyone involved in who we select. I realize it doesn't read that way as I only mentioned Tomlin...


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 Post subject: Re: If Edge Rusher in Rd 1 - Who
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:39 pm 
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955876 wrote:
No, I don't place all of it on Tomlin and have soured on Colbert as well.

I mention Tomlin because he's the one that said "easy evaluation".

My comment is really directed at everyone involved in who we select. I realize it doesn't read that way as I only mentioned Tomlin...


I expect Tomlin to say that even if he disagreed. That was LeBeau's last pick

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 Post subject: Re: If Edge Rusher in Rd 1 - Who
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:42 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
955876 wrote:
No, I don't place all of it on Tomlin and have soured on Colbert as well.

I mention Tomlin because he's the one that said "easy evaluation".

My comment is really directed at everyone involved in who we select. I realize it doesn't read that way as I only mentioned Tomlin...


I expect Tomlin to say that even if he disagreed. That was LeBeau's last pick

THIS ^^^

My guess is: anyone who was against the Jarvis pick moved up in the decision-making hierarchy. It's the kind of pick that gets guys fired in an ordinary organization.

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 Post subject: Re: If Edge Rusher in Rd 1 - Who
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:13 pm 
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So you two are implying that Lebeau (the DC) had more say and pull on draft day than Tomlin (the HC)?

Is that the narrative now? That the Jones pick was Lebeau's fault?

So who moved up and who moved down after the Dri Archer pick since Haley is still here?

And for the record, Tomlin defers to his coordinators for play design, game plan, game plan implementation, and play calling. He also defers to his coordinators on draft picks. Got it.

Hell of a job if you can get it. In charge of everything yet responsible for nothing...


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 Post subject: Re: If Edge Rusher in Rd 1 - Who
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:28 pm 
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No. I said exactly what I meant. IF Tomlin had not agreed on the pick but allowed his DC's decision to go forward then Tomlin would have said they loved the pick. I do think LeBeau had a major influence on the types of players pick for defense. i think Butler's opinion on players has more weight for defensive players then others. I think draft rooms come to a conscientious on picks.

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 Post subject: Re: If Edge Rusher in Rd 1 - Who
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:38 pm 
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The process ordinarily described in draft process around the league is:

Scouts develop notes on players for years. Cross check scouts look at players with a fresh set of eyes from the scouts primarily assigned to the regions/schools/conferences. The scouting coordinators put together grades. At some point, a condensed version-- probably the better players in the opinion of scouts-- goes to the GM and HC (and probably OC/DC and owner). They get input from their position coaches and give their own takes on prospects. The entire department then puts together films and grades for the whole class, based on that input. They make a board. After the combine and pro days-- with priority given to players they liked before combine-- they settle ties on the board (via workouts and testing numbers, probably) and perhaps re-look at players whose testing doesn't agree with their tape.

After all of that, there is almost always described an opportunity for everyone on the staff to "stand on the table" for a prospect or prospects they really believe in. Additionally, any pick is going to get run by the coordinators for context: will this guy fit with what we do? How does he compare to what we have at the position already? Should we change schemes and accommodate his skills? How would that affect us overall?

OF COURSE the GM and HC are involved in the picks the team makes, but if you read the above, it's clear that a lot of people have influence in the process, and some of it (the scouts in particular) has a major effect... they effectively eliminate a thousand guys before the coaches or GM see the board. From the stories I've heard from, say Pat Kirwan and Gil Brandt... the team selected players often where someone fought like hell for the guy.

Somebody fought for Jarvis-- it could have been Tomlin, it could have been Lebeau, it could have been Rooney or Colbert or Butler-- who knows. Ultimately Tombert is responsible, just as they are for the great picks... doesn't mean they hated or loved all of them with equal passion.

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 Post subject: Re: If Edge Rusher in Rd 1 - Who
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:40 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
The process ordinarily described in draft process around the league is:

Scouts develop notes on players for years. Cross check scouts look at players with a fresh set of eyes from the scouts primarily assigned to the regions/schools/conferences. The scouting coordinators put together grades. At some point, a condensed version-- probably the better players in the opinion of scouts-- goes to the GM and HC (and probably OC/DC and owner). They get input from their position coaches and give their own takes on prospects. The entire department then puts together films and grades for the whole class, based on that input. They make a board. After the combine and pro days-- with priority given to players they liked before combine-- they settle ties on the board (via workouts and testing numbers, probably) and perhaps re-look at players whose testing doesn't agree with their tape.

After all of that, there is almost always described an opportunity for everyone on the staff to "stand on the table" for a prospect or prospects they really believe in. Additionally, any pick is going to get run by the coordinators for context: will this guy fit with what we do? How does he compare to what we have at the position already? Should we change schemes and accommodate his skills? How would that affect us overall?

OF COURSE the GM and HC are involved in the picks the team makes, but if you read the above, it's clear that a lot of people have influence in the process, and some of it (the scouts in particular) has a major effect... they effectively eliminate a thousand guys before the coaches or GM see the board. From the stories I've heard from, say Pat Kirwan and Gil Brandt... the team selected players often where someone fought like hell for the guy.

Somebody fought for Jarvis-- it could have been Tomlin, it could have been Lebeau, it could have been Rooney or Colbert or Butler-- who knows. Ultimately Tombert is responsible, just as they are for the great picks... doesn't mean they hated or loved all of them with equal passion.

This.

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 Post subject: Re: If Edge Rusher in Rd 1 - Who
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:56 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
No. I said exactly what I meant. IF Tomlin had not agreed on the pick but allowed his DC's decision to go forward then Tomlin would have said they loved the pick. I do think LeBeau had a major influence on the types of players pick for defense. i think Butler's opinion on players has more weight for defensive players then others. I think draft rooms come to a conscientious on picks.


I wouldn't expect a HC to publicly disagree with a pick either. I also expect coordinators to have some say. Your post did say though that it was "Lebeau's last pick" which does lead one to think you were implying that it was Lebeau who lobbied hard for the guy. If there is evidence to support that then fine. Not sure there is though.

Then B2B followed it up with a comment about anyone against the pick moving up the organizational hierarchy and that such a huge miss is a firable offense in most organizations.

The language of both those post suggest at least to some degree that Tomlin was somehow less responsible. At least that's how it read to me. Been a lot of years since I sat in English 101 so maybe I just interpreted it incorrectly...


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