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 Post subject: New ESPN article on Big Ben
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:12 am 
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/275 ... ter-leader

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 Post subject: Re: New ESPN article on Big Ben
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:54 am 
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Don’t they ever get tired of writing the same shit?

I feel like they haven’t written about a single play Ben has made for like two years.

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 Post subject: Re: New ESPN article on Big Ben
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:30 am 
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Kinda like the annual Jerome Bettis article, it writes itself. Wait for it to be relevant, dust off, add a recent photo or two, recycle, deadline met, collect paycheck.


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 Post subject: Re: New ESPN article on Big Ben
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:33 am 
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I didn't live through the 70's glory years (I was born in '78), but was Bradshaw considered a "good leader"?

Seems to me that the pounding Ben took on the field and off the field with this shit is enough to earn him respect through the lockerroom.

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 Post subject: Re: New ESPN article on Big Ben
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:34 am 
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At least it wasn’t an unfair hatchet job or just recycling of the old fake sexual assault case from years back. They usually save those articles and the former team doctor who got busted for HGH articles until the week of the AFC Championship game.

The only issue I had with the article is the premise that his legacy is tied to how he treats teammates. His legacy is a Top 10 QB ever in every single metric, 2 Time SB winner and HOF QB. That’s the legacy, period. You think the HOF is full of nice guys and great teammates?


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 Post subject: Re: New ESPN article on Big Ben
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:37 am 
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SP wrote:
At least it wasn’t an unfair hatchet job or just recycling of the old fake sexual assault case from years back. They usually save those articles and the former team doctor who got busted for HGH articles until the week of the AFC Championship game.

The only issue I had with the article is the premise that his legacy is tied to how he treats teammates. His legacy is a Top 10 QB ever in every single metric, 2 Time SB winner and HOF QB. That’s the legacy, period. You think the HOF is full of nice guys and great teammates?


This.


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 Post subject: Re: New ESPN article on Big Ben
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:40 am 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
I didn't live through the 70's glory years (I was born in '78), but was Bradshaw considered a "good leader"?


Bradshaw came as a top draft pick and a inexperienced boy from the south. He got booed his first couple years and took it hard, got depressed. Then the light turned on, Bradshaw got some targets in Swann and Stallworth. Bradshaw found his confidence and became a great leader by his 4th year and the Steelers started racking up 4 Super bowls.


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 Post subject: Re: New ESPN article on Big Ben
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:46 am 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
I didn't live through the 70's glory years (I was born in '78), but was Bradshaw considered a "good leader"?

Seems to me that the pounding Ben took on the field and off the field with this shit is enough to earn him respect through the lockerroom.


It's funny but these kind of items weren't really in the news back in those days. Other than the criminal element law suit against Noll most news items then were just about wins, losses and player production or lack thereof.

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Last edited by JackLambert58 on Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New ESPN article on Big Ben
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:46 am 
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Can’t allow a guy that talks shit during pick-up basketball into the HOF.


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 Post subject: Re: New ESPN article on Big Ben
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:53 am 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
I didn't live through the 70's glory years (I was born in '78), but was Bradshaw considered a "good leader"?

Seems to me that the pounding Ben took on the field and off the field with this shit is enough to earn him respect through the lockerroom.


Different type of players now - which mirrors the generation. Everyone needs to be appreciated and respected. God forbid you hurt someone's feelings. Ben is a throwback player, and probably also a throwback leader. I dont think he'll ever be the leader that the media wants him to be. But he has done enough to earn people's respect - which should be enough. The problem with the Steelers is that it seems nobody else has stepped up to fill the leader role and it was cast on Ben. Have to think in those early Ben years some of the Vets did most of it.


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 Post subject: Re: New ESPN article on Big Ben
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:03 pm 
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Stallworth16 wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
I didn't live through the 70's glory years (I was born in '78), but was Bradshaw considered a "good leader"?


Bradshaw came as a top draft pick and a inexperienced boy from the south. He got booed his first couple years and took it hard, got depressed. Then the light turned on, Bradshaw got some targets in Swann and Stallworth. Bradshaw found his confidence and became a great leader by his 4th year and the Steelers started racking up 4 Super bowls.


Ben didn’t play quarterback until his senior year in high school. Before he played his first real down, he was recruited by Miami of Ohio, on the basis of his performance at a summer camp. He is a savant. I take him to be not too smart. Kind of self-centered. A little awkward in off-field relationships and encounters. Kind of childish. But on the field, he just KNOWS what to do and he JUST DOES IT. This does not make for strong team relationships—or leadership in the traditional sense.

That he was still learning the position as he was headed to his first Superbowl may have distracted him from subtle things like locker room motivation.

Now, he’s an old guy. He has some guys on the team who may have watched him when they were LITTLE kids (like pre-tween). So, he is able to wield his gravitas in a way that he couldn’t before.

I actually relate. I started a company and became president on the basis of some technical abilities I have (I was the best guy in the room at doing what we do). Only years later did I begin to understand that there was more to being president than being the best 3-point shooter. And only years after that did I have the grey hair or wardrobe really to back that up. So…

Here’s Ben. By far the best player the Steelers have—one of the best in the league…maybe one of the best ever. He figured out a few years ago that that does not make him a leader. And finally, he has the gravitas to play a role he could not play before.

By contrast, there are guys who come out of the womb as leaders. I’m thinking about Tony Dungy as a Steeler. One of the weaker links in the 1970s defensive backfield. Yet all those guys—Lambert, Green, Shell, Blount…Hall of Fame level players…acknowledge his role as a leader/on-field coach.


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 Post subject: Re: New ESPN article on Big Ben
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:18 pm 
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the-other-burg wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
I didn't live through the 70's glory years (I was born in '78), but was Bradshaw considered a "good leader"?

Seems to me that the pounding Ben took on the field and off the field with this shit is enough to earn him respect through the lockerroom.


Different type of players now - which mirrors the generation. Everyone needs to be appreciated and respected. God forbid you hurt someone's feelings. Ben is a throwback player, and probably also a throwback leader. I dont think he'll ever be the leader that the media wants him to be. But he has done enough to earn people's respect - which should be enough. The problem with the Steelers is that it seems nobody else has stepped up to fill the leader role and it was cast on Ben. Have to think in those early Ben years some of the Vets did most of it.

Totally agree - back in the 70s coaches didn't have to coddle players or worry about their feelings as much either. Sure there were some who needed to be handled with kid gloves but for the most part the coach yelled at you when you were wrong and didn't worry about how you felt about it. Ironically one of the things Brad disliked the most about Noll was that he didn't care how Terry felt when he got yelled at.


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 Post subject: Re: New ESPN article on Big Ben
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:32 pm 
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It is weird -- the article doesn't come across at all as about leadership but instead about extroversion being good and introversion being bad.

Ben from the article reads like an introvert. He also reads like a guy who is 15-18 years older than a lot of guys on the team. That age gap makes it hard for him to relate.

But when he is practicing, he demands excellence. That is leadership. There was some kind of attempt to say the days off on Wedensday are an indicment on his leaership skills (i.e., hypocrsicy), but I don't see it -- practice right when you practice is the message.


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 Post subject: Re: New ESPN article on Big Ben
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:01 pm 
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Hopefully Ben can fix his image when he retires after the 3rd week of preseason in 2022.

Then ... and only then... will he be a true leader.


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 Post subject: Re: New ESPN article on Big Ben
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:16 pm 
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SP wrote:
At least it wasn’t an unfair hatchet job or just recycling of the old fake sexual assault case from years back. They usually save those articles and the former team doctor who got busted for HGH articles until the week of the AFC Championship game.

The only issue I had with the article is the premise that his legacy is tied to how he treats teammates. His legacy is a Top 10 QB ever in every single metric, 2 Time SB winner and HOF QB. That’s the legacy, period. You think the HOF is full of nice guys and great teammates?


Charles Haley is in the HOF. Enough said.

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 Post subject: Re: New ESPN article on Big Ben
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:38 pm 
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Fair article IMO. Actually feels more positive than negative. I really think the notion that leadership doesn't come naturally to him is entirely fair.

Honestly this whole situation has made me respect Ryan Clark even more than I did previously. He's really been fair in his judgement of Ben with both the good and the bad. Because there is both I believe.

The funny part is that they're using snippets from Josh Harris. I mean really?

I do think the amount of days taken off is a bit excessive given the habits of his peers, but what do I really know? I'm not there. I can only infer based on the results I see on TV.

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