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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:18 pm 
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jewelsongs wrote:
I posted this in another thread.

Tomlin has to game plan against the best QB who ever lived...

I know everyone here hates Tomlin. People should start holding Ben responsible for the performances in New England. He is easy to game plan against. He makes big money, he should start earning it. If Tomlin had Brady, we would have won multiple super bowls also. I am not saying Tomlin is equal to Belecheat, he is clearly not. But he doesn't get to play with the same deck.


Belichick — the cheater and asshole he is — is probably the greatest HC in the history of the game, Tomlin is just one of the best in the game today. Brady is probably the greatest QB in the history of the game. Ben is just the one of the best in the game today — and his age is showing. Hate Tomlin all you want but his numbers are among the best in the last two decades.

Look, I love Tarheel basketball. Fans slam Coach Roy Williams constantly. The greatest coach in the history of college b-ball is 8 miles away at Duke. But Roy keeps the Tarheels competitive and brings home a national championship every now and then. The success protects him and the numbers are the numbers.

Get over it. Tomlin’s record is impressive enough to survive a losing season or three. Right now he has no losing seasons. He’s got winning seasons, division titles, conference titles, super bowl appearances and a ring.


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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:21 pm 
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95-
Your the one who started with the invective. Not me.

I will give you 20 words to come up with whatever "point" you thought you had, although i am sure ive already addressed it because your such a delightful well mannered chap i will give you another shot

Remember ..... 20 WORDS ONLY

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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:41 pm 
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breeze wrote:
jewelsongs wrote:
I posted this in another thread.

Tomlin has to game plan against the best QB who ever lived...

I know everyone here hates Tomlin. People should start holding Ben responsible for the performances in New England. He is easy to game plan against. He makes big money, he should start earning it. If Tomlin had Brady, we would have won multiple super bowls also. I am not saying Tomlin is equal to Belecheat, he is clearly not. But he doesn't get to play with the same deck.


Belichick — the cheater and asshole he is — is probably the greatest HC in the history of the game, Tomlin is just one of the best in the game today. Brady is probably the greatest QB in the history of the game. Ben is just the one of the best in the game today — and his age is showing. Hate Tomlin all you want but his numbers are among the best in the last two decades.

Look, I love Tarheel basketball. Fans slam Coach Roy Williams constantly. The greatest coach in the history of college b-ball is 8 miles away at Duke. But Roy keeps the Tarheels competitive and brings home a national championship every now and then. The success protects him and the numbers are the numbers.

Get over it. Tomlin’s record is impressive enough to survive a losing season or three. Right now he has no losing seasons. He’s got winning seasons, division titles, conference titles, super bowl appearances and a ring.


I don’t mind the UNC - Duke analogy, but quite frankly who gives a shit. Tomlin & Co. haven’t been to a super bowl in almost 10 years. Last time we were in the AFCCG we had our doors blown off. It’s not good enough. In fact, if we continue to fail and don’t make it back to the big game, I consider the last half of Ben’s career as disappointing as his first half was impressive.

I will also add that Ben’s kush gig right now, the one where he gets a Veterans Day off while everyone else is busting there asses, seems to be showing it’s ugly side. He led the league in INTs last season even though he threw for 5000+. I’ve said in the other thread, of the “old guard” crew, Ben has only looked better than Eli consistently. Brady, Brees and Rivers all consistently play at a higher level than Ben does these days.


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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:43 pm 
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I’ve already made my point.

It’s you that hasn’t made yours.

Just like a Jibba Jabba presser.

Or a Jibba Jabba gameplan.

All hot air.

I need my sleep now. You obviously do to there day trader. Those 3:00 am futures markets must come early for a guy like you. .. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:46 pm 
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955876 wrote:
I’ve already made my point.

It’s you that hasn’t made yours.

Just like a Jibba Jabba presser.

Or a Jibba Jabba gameplan.

All hot air.

I need my sleep now. You obviously do to there day trader. Those 3:00 am futures markets must come early for a guy like you. .. :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

so no point huh ???

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:55 pm 
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Not really difficult to decipher what I’ve already said here.

I already know you have no response because it isn’t defensible.


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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:58 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Not really difficult to decipher what I’ve already said here.

I already know you have no response because it isn’t defensible.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

95 -

Im done...... if you wanna be reasonable and rational sometime maybe I will respond to you

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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:08 pm 
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Oh your seriously asking for a point rather than being purposely obtuse?

I’ll oblige you the 20 words or less.

Boswell
No magic button
Had magic button
Showed you magic button
Time outs

13. Could have done it in half.

You quoted my post, reposted some nonsense, yet can’t debate the actual content of YOUR post that I challenged.

We can be done here or you can defend your original post vs what I countered with.

That would be funny.

Tell us how ole Jibba was puttin dem Raidaz under “time pressure”...


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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:19 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Oh your seriously asking for a point rather than being purposely obtuse?

I’ll oblige you the 20 words or less.

Boswell
No magic button
Had magic button
Showed you magic button
Time outs

13. Could have done it in half.

You quoted my post, reposted some nonsense, yet can’t debate the actual content of YOUR post that I challenged.

We can be done here or you can defend your original post vs what I countered with.

That would be funny.

Tell us how ole Jibba was puttin dem Raidaz under “time pressure”...


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

WTF !!!! IS That ^^^^^^ :lol: :lol: :lol:

Look heres the real deal

Last years team is EASILY 11-5 without the worst performing ST unit in the NFL and 12-4 is very doable provided players make plays they should EASILY make on the field. Outside of that, what is any NFL HC supposed to do when your players blow plays they should easily make ??

You got all the answers you tell me

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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:25 pm 
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I already told you’d what I’d do.

Same as anyone else with half a brain

Call time out. Preserve time for my offense. So it doesn’t come down to my head case kicker that’s already been missing all year.

That for starters.

We done here now?


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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:32 pm 
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955876 wrote:
I already told you’d what I’d do.

Same as anyone else with half a brain

Call time out. Preserve time for my offense. So it doesn’t come down to my head case kicker that’s already been missing all year.

That for starters.

We done here now?


I dont remember how the timeout went down and I dont trust you to be accurate about it. I will re-watch it and get back to you at some point if you dont piss me off. I do remeber thinking things couldve been better IIRC ?? But again. Players gotta make plays. Especially ones that arent extraordinary. The fact remains its not like last years team was a horrible sad sack you portray them as. In fact they were a whole lot closer to get a little bit of luck and winning another Lombardi

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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:36 pm 
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And don’t forget the only reason we were lining up for that last second kick was because JuJu broke one that almost went the distance.

Otherwise we wouldn’t have had the tine to get that far most likely.

Because well, you know.

And why wouldn’t he call that TO?

And don’t forget how rush the kick itself was.

TO still in pocket and all.

This was fun and all but unless you want to entertain us with Jibba logic as to why Jabba didn’t call a TO them I think this is all wrapped up...


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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:38 pm 
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SteelerDayTrader wrote:
955876 wrote:
I already told you’d what I’d do.

Same as anyone else with half a brain

Call time out. Preserve time for my offense. So it doesn’t come down to my head case kicker that’s already been missing all year.

That for starters.

We done here now?


I dont remember how the timeout went down and I dont trust you to be accurate about it. I will re-watch it and get back to you at some point if you dont piss me off. I do remeber thinking things couldve been better IIRC ?? But again. Players gotta make plays. Especially ones that arent extraordinary. The fact remains its not like last years team was a horrible sad sack you portray them as. In fact they were a whole lot closer to get a little bit of luck and winning another Lombardi


Anyone that watched the game remembers.

Raider fans in my section were laughing out loud “ why isn’t their coach calling TO”?

And Raider fans tend to run on the dumb side. At least a certain element of Raider fan.


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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:38 pm 
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955876 wrote:
I think this is all wrapped up...


no

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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:41 pm 
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Quote:
The fact remains its not like last years team was a horrible sad sack you portray them as. In fact they were a whole lot closer to get a little bit of luck and winning another Lombardi


I’ve actually never portrayed the team to be bad. Just their coach.

And they didn’t need better luck. They needed better coaching.

The team is there. They don’t know what the fuck they are doing.

DBs covering themselves in the EZ...


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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:44 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
The fact remains its not like last years team was a horrible sad sack you portray them as. In fact they were a whole lot closer to get a little bit of luck and winning another Lombardi


I’ve actually never portrayed the team to be bad. Just their coach.

And they didn’t need better luck. They needed better coaching.

The team is there. They don’t know what the fuck they are doing.

DBs covering themselves in the EZ...


So the team is near great but according many geniuses here the HC is a total dumbass ??? Im not buying it.

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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:44 pm 
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Quote:
I will also add that Ben’s kush gig right now, the one where he gets a Veterans Day off while everyone else is busting there asses, seems to be showing it’s ugly side.

Realize that Wednesday’s are a light jog through in shorts and Ts...nobodies busting their ass.

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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:46 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Quote:
I will also add that Ben’s kush gig right now, the one where he gets a Veterans Day off while everyone else is busting there asses, seems to be showing it’s ugly side.

Realize that Wednesday’s are a light jog through in shorts and Ts...nobodies busting their ass.



^^^^^^^

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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:48 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Quote:
I will also add that Ben’s kush gig right now, the one where he gets a Veterans Day off while everyone else is busting there asses, seems to be showing it’s ugly side.

Realize that Wednesday’s are a light jog through in shorts and Ts...nobodies busting their ass.


It is install the game plan day.

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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:42 am 
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I do love the meme that Ben is starting to show his age, etc. This is reactionary bullshit at its finest. Ben wasn’t even that bad last game. But even if he was terrible, how does one game tell us whether he is showing his age? One datum point does not a narrative form.


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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:06 am 
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I don’t think anyone is saying Ben was terrible. The message being kicked around by myself, stillthere and 77’ is (and others is);

1. taking a veterans day off after a team performance like that sends a shitty message to the rest of the bunch considering Ben is the elder member of this team and hopefully one of the premier leaders and

2. even on a Wednesday practice, Ben throwing balls to his receivers and getting the reps in with the young guys and dudes like Moncrief and Washington does benefit the team and increases the likelihood of success. Are we really reaching into the excuse bag so far now to say that practicing will have no real effect on whether these guys perform on game day? Oh come on people.

Ben’s comment to the press on Tuesday about his play was (paraphrasing); “I’m going to work on and improve what I have control over, and that is quarterback play. Quarterback has to play better.” Nothing is wrong with that statement, but what’s clear to us all is that EVERYONE needs to be better, from the damn head coach to the guys and gals that spray water out of the green Gatorade bottles. The optics of Ben getting a vet day off just irks me. Especially if other QBs in the league don’t enjoy the same luxury.


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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:12 am 
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There is racial bias alright, but I think it is actually the opposite of what STD believes. Tomlin should have been fired years ago for his repetitive game day blunders, lack of preparation and detail, and absence of discipline in the locker room. Forget the FGs at the one yard line or the terrible replay challenges, he clearly is not a very smart person. He can't process, for example, basic time management that my 10 yr old can do on Madden. He's taken 10 years to adjust to a D with more man coverage and still fails. He constantly lives in his fears making safe personnel decisions like keeping average players who are loyal or keeping Ben out of a game he is healthy because he doesn't want to risk further injury and thinks the Raiders suck so badly that Dobbs can succeed. He is continuously enamored with a players "personal story" while ignoring film (Edmunds). He takes years to move on from his failures (Burns, Dupree, etc) because of his own stubborn pride.

So yes there is bias.. But the bias is actually a deference to him because of his race. I believe Art 2 is flat out scared to pull the trigger because someone will accuse him of racism.


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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:18 am 
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franco32 wrote:
There is racial bias alright, but I think it is actually the opposite of what STD believes. Tomlin should have been fired years ago for his repetitive game day blunders, lack of preparation and detail, and absence of discipline in the locker room. Forget the FGs at the one yard line or the terrible replay challenges, he clearly is not a very smart person. He can't process, for example, basic time management that my 10 yr old can do on Madden. He's taken 10 years to adjust to a D with more man coverage and still fails. He constantly lives in his fears making safe personnel decisions like keeping average players who are loyal or keeping Ben out of a game he is healthy because he doesn't want to risk further injury and thinks the Raiders suck so badly that Dobbs can succeed. He is continuously enamored with a players "personal story" while ignoring film (Edmunds). He takes years to move on from his failures (Burns, Dupree, etc) because of his own stubborn pride.

So yes there is bias.. But the bias is actually a deference to him because of his race. I believe Art 2 is flat out scared to pull the trigger because someone will accuse him of racism.


This ^^^^

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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:36 am 
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I think Art 2 hasn't fired Tomlin for a few reasons, but I don't count race among them. I think he likes the Steeler lore, 3 coaches since 1969, blah blah blah. I think he likes Tomlin and thinks him a good coach (I don't disagree with him there). I also think Art has no idea how to pick a new coach because he doesn't know anything about football.

Kevin Colbert is on a year-to-year plan. I think he should retire. I think Art should hire a football person to fill Colbert's role as GM. I think they should clean house from Tomlin to the waterboy and let the new GM pick his coaching staff. I think it's time for a shake up and a fresh look.

I think Tomlin has been a very good coach for the Steelers. I think he, as all coaches do, has some deficiencies. I also think his message has gotten stale and he's a little too comfortable. When that happened, his deficiencies became even more apparent.

Once Ben hangs it up, I would like to see a young, hungry, innovative coach to step in and rebuild the locker room. Basically, I want Mike Tomlin in 2007.


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 Post subject: Re: Any Tomlin defenders left?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:54 am 
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Quote:
I dont remember how the timeout went down and I dont trust you to be accurate about it.


One of the benefits of it being 2019 is that I don’t need you to trust my recollection of it. The play by play box score will take care of it for me. Maybe if we were having this argument back in the day you’d get lucky that nobody had a newspaper laying around from that following Monday.

No such luck for you today.


Derek Carr completes a pass from Steelers 46 down to the the 7 yard line. There was 1:59 on the clock when that play started. We had a 4 point lead at 21-17 and two time outs in pocket.

Being it was inside two minutes and down 4, the Raiders only shot was scoring a TD. It was also in their best interest to bleed clock to not give Ben the ball back with time left as all we would need would be a FG to send to OT.

Did we call TO after the long play? Nope. Let clock run down to 1:16.

On first and goal from the 7 the Raiders run it for 1 yard. Did we stop clock after this play?

Nope. Let the clock tick down to :34 seconds left.

Raiders pass incomplete on 2nd down. Clock at :30.

Raiders pass incomplete on 3rd down. Clock at :25.

Then, with the clock ALREADY STOPPED, Tomlin decides to use a TO after the play clock expires. Guess he needed more time to set his defense for the 4th down play coming. But also gave the Raiders a freebie as they also had more time to choose the right play.

They guessed better than we did. TD with only 21 ticks left on the clock.

We only get into FG range to even try the last second kick because a short pass to Washington was lateraled to JuJu who took it 48 yards.

Then Tomlin rushes his FG unit in the field where Boswell slips and misses the kick.

TO still in pocket.

43 seconds were allowed to expire off the clock after the long pass that took them down to the 7.

Take a peek at how much time ticked off the clock after the 1 yard run on first down.

Steelers could have had the ball back with more time. Enough to try to get into FG range.

Saving clock was our only chance if the D wasn’t able to stop them. Not stopping clock was not putting Raiders under time pressure because they had their own TO in pocket.

Now we can be done because there is no counter to the facts I’ve laid out and no defense of him not calling those time outs. Shit, the one he actually did use he chose to use AFTER the clock was already stopped due to incomplete pass.

He is seriously out of his depth. Much like you in this debate.


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