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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:11 pm 
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RB position looks awesome right now -- best in many years.

biggest fear is Tomlin.


Fixed it for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:06 am 
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smithessmokin wrote:
I'm not sure there is anyone left on the market I'd even consider, the pickings are super slim.



I know we can restructure a contract or 3 but as of right now the team is like 980,000 dollars under the cap. So the pickings are even slimmer.


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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:16 am 
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Offense can be good enough to win it all.

Defense not so much. Until thy get a true nose tackle, they will continue to get gashed big time in the run game. The back up NT and DE's blow.

Then I think Edmunds steps up this year, Davis I doubt it.


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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:13 am 
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stillthere wrote:
smithessmokin wrote:
I'm not sure there is anyone left on the market I'd even consider, the pickings are super slim.



I know we can restructure a contract or 3 but as of right now the team is like 980,000 dollars under the cap. So the pickings are even slimmer.


I think it's pretty impressive the roster that's been assembled with literally 20+ million of dead money tied behind our back.


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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:33 am 
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How long has it been since they've even been decent against the run? A decade? Seems like forever. The defense hasn't been good enough to close out games and the offense hasn't been consistently able to put up enough points to overcome that weakness to be a real SB contender. Both of those have to improve this year to make a run. I don't know that they've done enough on either side of the ball for that to happen. They aren't out-coaching anyone as well. There are plenty of players on the roster that have the ability to take a step forward though. That's what brings hope every off season right?

The lack of offensive consistency is why I'm not as concerned about the loss of 26 and 84. Sure they put of a ton of yards with those guys but never scored points as consistently as they need to with the defense the way it is. Maybe this forces Ben to make changes. I've alway thought he needs to protect the football better and make less bad decisions, especially in close games. This off season might force him to buckle down and be better both from the loss of talent and criticisim. That's my hope anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:52 am 
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I'm not sure the NE Patriots are any better at stopping the run or have a "true" NT. I think Hargrave is pretty good at what he does.

I also think few defensive lines have been better at causing havoc in the passing game. They only have to be adequate in the run game, not the 2000 Ravens/2008 Steelers vs the run.

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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:05 am 
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Easy solution would be a gameplan like the Super Bowl Indy Colts or New Orleans Saints went with. Pedal to the metal offense, build a lead big enough that the score and clock remove the running game for you. We have the personnel to do it in place. I'd argue it's why the Pats can get away with deficiencies against the run, too


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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:06 am 
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They TRY to play 4-3. Just because their personnel on the DL doesn't fit it at all, doesn't mean they don't try to play it!


I really don't believe they are trying to play a 43.

No matter how we attempt to view things. Watt and Dupree are outside linebackers. Neither player can set the edge and still be an effective pass rusher. In all honesty neither player can set the edge against an NFL offensive tackle...They're smalls.

Example.

Tuitt and Heyward lined up over interior Olinemen
Watt and Dupree lined up over the tackles
Barron and Bush at inside backer

That is a nickel. In no way is that a 43

3 formations have given the Steelers fits over the past two seasons.

2 Tight Ends single back 2 receivers
1 Tight end single back 3 Wr's
2 backs 3 Wr's

The Steelers have attempted to counter with a variety of exotic looks with 2 bigs on the field and they have been death marched and humilated

I think over the past few seasons the Steelers have attempted to hide deficiencies

-Vince Williams god love him is a very good player in a phone booth...Outside of that phone booth he is below average
-I will not attack Ryan Shazier but he had many more warts than people want to admit
-The Steelers safety play has been a mixed bag...That mixed bag consisted of 80% shit and 20% sugar
-Corner play at times have been awful.

Taking those things into account the Steelers have attempted to become exotic...You cannot trick NFl coordinators all season...That is what the Steelers have attempted to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:57 am 
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Shaz may have had warts, they were diminishing I believe, and no way can anyone say he wasn't clutch with the game on the line. How many times was the game lost and almost over and he pulls a turnover, or stop out of the hat? It seemed like you could almost count on it there for a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:09 am 
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I am with B2B here on Hargrave. His second season he was dealing with and playing through injuries but last season he was much, much improved.

I also find it funny that people keep harping on the fact that we need another Casey Hampton NT. Don't many of you remember how Hampton was being neutralized the last 3-4 years of his career??

There have been sites like PFF, yeah, take with a grain of salt, but they have Hargrave as an ascending player as a pass rusher and run stuffer. You know what I like about Hargrave as a run stuffer? He actually can make a tackle, he can make a bunch of solo tackles, tackles behind the line of scrimmage. Often times with Hampton you hear that old trope about how he occupies blockers so that other people can get the glory, make the tackle.

But there is something to be said for having a pass rushing NT who can also play well against the run, make tackles, solo tackles.

Hargrave played 455 snaps last season on defense, which was what, less than half the overall snaps? And yet he made 49 tackles, 32 solo, 6 tackles for loss. He had 6.5 sacks, 8 QB hits too. And he did that all in just 455 snaps. Imagine what he could do if he had say 340 more snaps??

Why do I bring up 340 more snaps specifically?? Because Geno Atkins had 795 snaps last season, 340 more than Hargrave.

Geno with 340 more snaps than Javon Hargrave, only managed:

10 sacks, 19 QB hits, 45 tackles, 24 solo, 13 tackles for loss. Geno Atkins was selected to the Pro Bowl for that effort.

Now, just for giggles, let us project what Hargrave might have done with 340 more snaps in 2018.

11.5 sacks, 14 QB hits, 85 tackles, 56 solo, 11 tackles for loss.

I have said this before, but don't be surprised when the Steelers offer Javon Hargrave a 4 year deal for $45-50 million in August. He is a budding star and is being shackled by our team's reluctance to move to a 4-3 and feature him as that penetrating DT.

I whole heartedly agree with FC about having this crappy defense with just two bigs on the field, which is why I want Heyward, Hargrave and Tuitt on the field more, why take any of them off the field? You add TJ Watt and that is your 4 man rush, your best 4 man pass rush. Dupree should be leaving the field, the 3 down linemen are all better pass rushers than him, that is the talent on this team and the Steelers need to wake up and feature them in this defense. They also need to find better depth, but that is another story to debate upon later.

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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:27 am 
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Not much else to really add. FC and others have pretty much covered it. The defensive line is a concern. I hoped they were going to draft DLine early, well earlier than they did. The run defense isn't a strength yet but can become one with the right personnel. As was pointed out earlier in this thread, if there are injuries along the DLine it could spell disaster. Perhaps one or maybe even two of these players Henry Mondeaux, Conor Sheehy, Lavon Hooks, Greg Gilmore can manage to develop into some solid depth. McCullers has not yet developed enough to get consistent snaps. I often wonder why he is even still on the roster.
Henry Mondeaux is my current dark horse at end. Winston Craig is my other dark horse for nose depth behind Hargrave. Perhaps Gilmore could be a candidate there as well? Outside of those newbies you've got starters Tuitt, Hargrave, Heyward and 1st off the bench player Alualu. So 2 of those players listed above [currently on the roster] will have to make the roster. I realize looking at those names [backup possibilities] on paper doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:38 am 
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Scunge wrote:
Heyward, Hargrave and Tuitt on the field more, why take any of them off the field? You add TJ Watt and that is your 4 man rush, your best 4 man pass rush. Dupree should be leaving the field, the 3 down linemen are all better pass rushers than him, that is the talent on this team and the Steelers need to wake up and feature them in this defense. They also need to find better depth, but that is another story to debate upon later.


Now this I can get on board with. Get Vinnie and Dup off the field. Barron, Bush and 5 db's is the way to defend the majority of what's happening today.

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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:47 am 
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VW gets his share of negative run here on SF, and yeah, he's a bit of a dinosaur, but he's the ILB on our roster I'd bet on to fight through a block if needed. With a light, not very deep (mild understatement) DL, that's not a skill easily dismissed.


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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:11 pm 
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Nice read on Johnson, Washington, Ben and the difference in OTA's from this year to last from Starkey in today's PG. Sorry no link, but it would likely just hit their registration/subscription wall, anyway. Seems like both WRs are coming along quite nicely, and the vibe is a lot better.


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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:50 pm 
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Lynch wrote:
Scunge wrote:
Heyward, Hargrave and Tuitt on the field more, why take any of them off the field? You add TJ Watt and that is your 4 man rush, your best 4 man pass rush. Dupree should be leaving the field, the 3 down linemen are all better pass rushers than him, that is the talent on this team and the Steelers need to wake up and feature them in this defense. They also need to find better depth, but that is another story to debate upon later.


Now this I can get on board with. Get Vinnie and Dup off the field. Barron, Bush and 5 db's is the way to defend the majority of what's happening today.

Dupree is the third best pass rusher on the team, and is way above average in hits + sacks + pressures. Why would you want to take him off the field to make your pass rush better?

I'd occasionally wave in a breather for Watt, roll in Ola for Bud– a series or two– and rotate Heyward-Hargrave-Tuitt-Draft pick, with that order of who gets the most snaps.

Bud is part of why those interior guys get to eat in the pass rush game.

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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:52 pm 
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The pass rush is the least of the concerns on defense, honestly.


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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:44 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Lynch wrote:
Scunge wrote:
Heyward, Hargrave and Tuitt on the field more, why take any of them off the field? You add TJ Watt and that is your 4 man rush, your best 4 man pass rush. Dupree should be leaving the field, the 3 down linemen are all better pass rushers than him, that is the talent on this team and the Steelers need to wake up and feature them in this defense. They also need to find better depth, but that is another story to debate upon later.


Now this I can get on board with. Get Vinnie and Dup off the field. Barron, Bush and 5 db's is the way to defend the majority of what's happening today.

Dupree is the third best pass rusher on the team, and is way above average in hits + sacks + pressures. Why would you want to take him off the field to make your pass rush better?

I'd occasionally wave in a breather for Watt, roll in Ola for Bud– a series or two– and rotate Heyward-Hargrave-Tuitt-Draft pick, with that order of who gets the most snaps.

Bud is part of why those interior guys get to eat in the pass rush game.


Personally, I would wave in the almighty Chickillo when keeping two OLB's on the field. But to answer your question. Run defense, which I concede is not as big of an issue in today's game. Maybe I just have an illogical hatred of Dupree, but it seems like I'm always watching the fucker wave a runner by while hung up on a block, or just straight up on the ground.

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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:20 pm 
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and yet you want to see Chickillo on the field? Jesus, man.

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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:10 pm 
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I'd rather neither, but seems to me he's the lesser of two evils.

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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:21 pm 
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I've seen a few recent steeler.com vids.

This is a different team. I mean, each year is different, but this year it's substantially different than the last. The last three or four or five years had the same tone and tenor. I see it differently this this year. On both sides of the ball. Although its obvious AB and Bell are gone, it's more than that.

And that's a good thing. Anybody else have the same view?

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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:56 pm 
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Ben's presence at OTAs has been a big difference, from everything I've read. As he goes, so goes the offense. I agree. Feels different.


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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:13 pm 
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I'd occasionally wave in a breather for Watt, roll in Ola for Bud– a series or two– and rotate Heyward-Hargrave-Tuitt-Draft pick, with that order of who gets the most snaps.


Bingo....Why I pray the Steelers can find two interior players to go along with Hargraves Tuitt and Heyward. I also agree on rolling front seven players

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Bud is part of why those interior guys get to eat in the pass rush game.


Fact. I dont believe a single OLB could do what the Steelers ask Watt and Dupree to do. Play the run against a 6-6 320 pound man and also rush the passer.

James Harrison could do it...Its why Harrison should be in the HOF in a couple of years

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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:58 pm 
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Well, we all know what's going to be happening the vast majority of the time, right? Stillers will play a 4 man front with 2 of Hargrave, Heyward, Tuitt sandwiched between Watt and Dupree. The almighty Chick will be spelling both olb's. What isn't known is how they're gonna play the other 7. I think they're gonna get Barron and Bush out there at the same time and play three corners. I think they're banking on this being the cure to the ass rapings they were taking last year in the short passing game, which imo, was the death knell of the season.

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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:34 am 
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I was thinking Barron is in effect a segway to Bush, until he's ready.

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 Post subject: Re: Heading into the Season
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:09 am 
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The autocorrect from segue to segway was a subtly disturbing one in that context, Van.

It's possible Barron's a bridge, but they're apparently running out packages with everybody everywhere, at least for the time being. Looks like they've been having some fun working on things already this offseason


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