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 Post subject: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:56 pm 
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Tomlin: "I know that we have spent a lot of time grooming and talking about the development of Marcus Allen, a guy that is going into his second year that should be able to compete for a linebacker position. So, it's not only these men, but also the development of guys that have been in our program that makes us feel good about the direction of that overall subject."

This is something I think everyone semi-expected and semi-embraced. We definitely are committed to modernizing the off-ball linebacker crew. We sure have a shitload of them now!

1) Bush
2) VWill
3) Barron
4) Gilbert
5) Smith
6) Allen

WHO THE FUCK IS GOING TO PLAY SAFETY???

You need 10 DBs in this league.

We have
1) Haden
2) Nelson
3) Edmunds
4) Davis
5) Hilton
6) Sutton
7) Layne
8) Brian Allen
9) Dangerfield
10) Artie Burnt

If Marcus Allen really moves to LB, you can pretty much book it that Brian Allen is a safety... and we are officially on notice for some June 1 cuts.

Who is out there right now or who could be out there?

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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:31 pm 
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MeanJustinBarlow wrote:
Tomlin: "I know that we have spent a lot of time grooming and talking about the development of Marcus Allen, a guy that is going into his second year that should be able to compete for a linebacker position. So, it's not only these men, but also the development of guys that have been in our program that makes us feel good about the direction of that overall subject."

This is something I think everyone semi-expected and semi-embraced. We definitely are committed to modernizing the off-ball linebacker crew. We sure have a shitload of them now!

1) Bush
2) VWill
3) Barron
4) Gilbert
5) Smith
6) Allen

WHO THE FUCK IS GOING TO PLAY SAFETY???

You need 10 DBs in this league.

We have
1) Haden
2) Nelson
3) Edmunds
4) Davis
5) Hilton
6) Sutton
7) Layne
8) Brian Allen
9) Dangerfield
10) Artie Burnt

If Marcus Allen really moves to LB, you can pretty much book it that Brian Allen is a safety... and we are officially on notice for some June 1 cuts.

Who is out there right now or who could be out there?

There are whispers that the Raiduhs could be parting with Karl Joseph. I know he was the board pre-draft man crush several years ago, but I honestly can’t tell you how he’s been as a pro, and if he would be worth pursuing should he actually become available.


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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:25 pm 
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I think Brian Allen will be moving to safety and i did read on ESPN that Joseph might be let go as a possibility and hopefully the steelers will be all over him like they were in on Haden.


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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 12:10 am 
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steelmann58 wrote:
I think Brian Allen will be moving to safety and i did read on ESPN that Joseph might be let go as a possibility and hopefully the steelers will be all over him like they were in on Haden.


Be still my beating heart... love Karl Joseph, Raiders foolishly misused him with their perpetual shittiness and buffonery these past few years.

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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 2:09 am 
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I am all for anything that keeps Vince Williams off the field as much as possible.

I am hoping that the Steelers go with Bush and Barron as the starting ILBs and Williams goes back to being a reserve/special teamer. He should only see 200 snaps on defense not 750 snaps. Back when he was a backup ILB he played much more on special teams, had over 300 snaps, etc, last season it was 23. With Allen, Sutton Smith and Ulysses Gilbert hopefully they will all see the field more at Vince Williams expense. Nothing personal but Williams is a liability and a weakness that will be exploited, and he even has trouble reaching some plays to make the tackle in the run game too. I am not a fan of the traditional two down thumper who lacks sideline to sideline range and can be beaten in coverage/zone.

I don't think Allen is being moved to LB as much as Tomlin is talking of him playing a hybrid LB/S role, like how they wanted Morgan Burnett to do and he balked at. I don't think the Steelers are seriously trying to convert Allen to be an ILB or gain weight.

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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 2:18 am 
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https://overthecap.com/player/vince-williams/2353/


Marcus Allen actually has the same upside that Mark Barron did when Ogletree went down and the conversion was made to backer IMHO. The Steelers are hedging bets and thats always a very good thing when your mindset is in fact a proactive one.


Who wears the Green Dot if and when you eliminate the snap count of VW ? Bush is a great "atalete" but make no mistake that he does in fact have plenty of THUG in him too.

He needs to embrace the process and if he can become the QB of the D ASAP then you really have a chance to see the FS/SS play improve behind him with his speed on the green more often than not. I fucking love me some Layne and think he is your solution to sub packaging / SLOT / TE geared sets now that you have Nelson and Hayden on the outside as staples.


Cam Sutton might make the biggest jump of anyone on the Steelers D in 2019 as I believe he has the noodle to be multiple.


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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 6:44 am 
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I can’t fathom the fascination with Brian Allen, looks like Tarzan plays like Jane, and that is just practice. Dude has been on the team 3 years, with the dumpster fire that has been the secondary, yet
Still can’t sniff a defensive snap. That dude has taken up a roster spot long enough.

Allen is a JAG, who does nothing well either, but he’s serviceable as a #4 CB for another year.


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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 8:46 am 
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In comparing Barron To Allen, and whether Marcus can make the switch to LB I don't know, it seems dubious to me.

Barron as I remember it was coming off a hernia injury and did not really test as well as he could have when he came into the NFL. Even still he was able to run a 4.54 at 213 pounds and he had long 33 5/8 inch arms, contrast that with Marcus Allen who ran a 4.63 and has arms that are 3 inches shorter. I am sure that Barron as he gained weight, lost some of that speed but he had a good baseline to start with. When Allen puts on weight to be an ILB? To go from 215 to 230 how much slower is he going to be from his baseline of 4.63?

On to Brian Allen, yeah, it is a pipe dream that he can ever move to safety, he just does not have the smarts to do that, he is strictly a CB but even if he is nothing more than your 5th CB that is fine because he is an outstanding special teamer, big and fast and physical.

I can't wait to see the impact that Teryl Austin has on the secondary and the linebackers in terms of coverage. The man is a Mike Munchak level coach for the secondary, at every stop of his career players played at Pro Bowl levels and became ballhawks, 5, 6, 7, 8 INTs were plentiful and common at Seattle, at Arizona, at Detroit. Austin may be the biggest signing we have made in years.

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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 10:06 am 
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I look for Kameron Kelly to move up that DB depth chart.


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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 10:33 am 
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Scunge wrote:
I am all for anything that keeps Vince Williams off the field as much as possible.

I am hoping that the Steelers go with Bush and Barron as the starting ILBs and Williams goes back to being a reserve/special teamer. He should only see 200 snaps on defense not 750 snaps. Back when he was a backup ILB he played much more on special teams, had over 300 snaps, etc, last season it was 23. With Allen, Sutton Smith and Ulysses Gilbert hopefully they will all see the field more at Vince Williams expense. Nothing personal but Williams is a liability and a weakness that will be exploited, and he even has trouble reaching some plays to make the tackle in the run game too. I am not a fan of the traditional two down thumper who lacks sideline to sideline range and can be beaten in coverage/zone.

I don't think Allen is being moved to LB as much as Tomlin is talking of him playing a hybrid LB/S role, like how they wanted Morgan Burnett to do and he balked at. I don't think the Steelers are seriously trying to convert Allen to be an ILB or gain weight.

Would you prefer to get killed by teams running it down our throats? Look at our schedule:

NE 9th in rush DVOA... will attack your weaknesses will all runs if that's the best way to win
SEA 6th
SF (Brieda)
CIN (Mixon)
BAL10... all run all the time
LAC 7th
MIA
IND (Top5 RB)
LAR 2nd in DVOA, added Darrell Henderson
CLE
CIN
CLE
AZ (heavy dose of David Johnson)
BUF (heavy run)
NYJ (Lev Bell)
BAL 10th with the Lamar Jackson show

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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 10:34 am 
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ommegosh wrote:
I look for Kameron Kelly to move up that DB depth chart.

I could see that

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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 10:57 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
ommegosh wrote:
I look for Kameron Kelly to move up that DB depth chart.

I could see that


That’s interesting. Dallas never used him properly. Hes a potential centerfielder the way he plays the ball.

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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 12:22 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Would you prefer to get killed by teams running it down our throats?


And Vince Williams is the answer to a strong run defense? Really B2B??

Vince Williams had 76 tackles last season, only 50 solo and just 8 of them were tackles for loss.

I look at the tackle production of Mark Barron from 2015-2017, and he had:

113 tackles with 76 solo and 16 TFL in 2015, played in 16 games
117 tackles with 90 solo and 7 TFL in 2016, played in 16 games
85 tackles with 72 solo and 7 TFL in 2017, played in 14 games

I think it is dubious to just say that Vince Williams is better at playing the run than Mark Barron or that Barron won't be the one who is starting next to Bush.

Also, I think teams were able to gash us in the run game because of lack of speed at ILB. We literally had players too slow to get the job done, too slow to process info and too easily blocked. Bush and Barron give me hope more than Vince Williams.

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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 12:29 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Would you prefer to get killed by teams running it down our throats?


And Vince Williams is the answer to a strong run defense? Really B2B??

Vince Williams had 76 tackles last season, only 50 solo and just 8 of them were tackles for loss.

I look at the tackle production of Mark Barron from 2015-2017, and he had:

113 tackles with 76 solo and 16 TFL in 2015, played in 16 games
117 tackles with 90 solo and 7 TFL in 2016, played in 16 games
85 tackles with 72 solo and 7 TFL in 2017, played in 14 games

I think it is dubious to just say that Vince Williams is better at playing the run than Mark Barron or that Barron won't be the one who is starting next to Bush.

Also, I think teams were able to gash us in the run game because of lack of speed at ILB. We literally had players too slow to get the job done, too slow to process info and too easily blocked. Bush and Barron give me hope more than Vince Williams.



Williams is the 2010s version of Larry “slow-a” Foote.... hate him or love him, he aint goin anywhere

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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 12:43 pm 
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Yeah, Vince isn't going anywhere but the Steelers signed Barron to a 2 year $12 million contract, so he makes the same $6 million per year salary as Vince Williams. There are those that will tell me that Vince will remain a starter because of his $6 million per year salary, yeah? So? Barron is making that too, so what??

Barron and Bush both seem to be heady players, smart players and probably will have no issue with having the 'green dot'.

Williams was at his best playing special teams and being a reserve/backup ILB.

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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 12:54 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
Yeah, Vince isn't going anywhere but the Steelers signed Barron to a 2 year $12 million contract, so he makes the same $6 million per year salary as Vince Williams. There are those that will tell me that Vince will remain a starter because of his $6 million per year salary, yeah? So? Barron is making that too, so what??

Barron and Bush both seem to be heady players, smart players and probably will have no issue with having the 'green dot'.

Williams was at his best playing special teams and being a reserve/backup ILB.


+1


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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 1:01 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
Yeah, Vince isn't going anywhere but the Steelers signed Barron to a 2 year $12 million contract, so he makes the same $6 million per year salary as Vince Williams. There are those that will tell me that Vince will remain a starter because of his $6 million per year salary, yeah? So? Barron is making that too, so what??

Barron and Bush both seem to be heady players, smart players and probably will have no issue with having the 'green dot'.

Williams was at his best playing special teams and being a reserve/backup ILB.


I am all for it, believe me. Just not totally optimistic based on history.

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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 1:11 pm 
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You stop the run today with numbers...quick, fast defenders that get to the football and congest the point of attack...smart, disciplined defenders.


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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 5:32 pm 
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Barron got those numbers as the chase guy with a Buck or Mike next to him.

My point is: YES the Steelers had trouble with being slow on D. But you can't go all speed on D, because teams will do what they're about to try to do to the Steelers, come week one-- run AT you now that you're small instead of away from you like they did when you were slow.

That's football 101. Bush and Barron are not going to fight through blocks and withstand pulling guards, so unless Hargrove turns over a new leaf or someone else is getting PT at NT, they're going to have to figure out how to balance the run D with pass D.

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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:25 pm 
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I wish this narrative that Javon Hargrave can't play the run or be an effective NT against the run would stop.

Yeah, maybe people don't like sites like PFF but there are stats out there that show Hargrave is becoming better and better against the run.

And I will say it again, my main issue of our run defense is the sloppy play of our ILBs, failing to reach tackles, taking false steps, guessing, not being able to easily defeat a block by a fullback, sliding off tackles, not able to bring the runner down when they make contact. It was a total shit show in that regard and Vince Williams did a lot of that.

With more and more offenses going to RPO type of offenses having Vince Williams type of thumpers in there on first and second down is asking for trouble.

I have more faith in Bush and Barron fighting through blocks and withstanding pulling guards because it isn't like Vince Williams is Levon Kirkland. I mean come on VW is not the answer as a starter.

How exactly does a Pittsburgh Steeler starting ILB have only 76 tackles in a season??? Yes, that was 14 games but even over a 16 game season that would come out to 86 tackles?? By my count there were 27 ILBs in the NFL that had more tackles than Vince Williams. 27.

How does VW not have over 100 tackles? And how does he not have over 80 solo tackles??

I am not expecting Levon Kirkland type of production but come on even former Steelers ILBs of yesteryear like Earl Holmes and Larry Foote were able to have over 100 tackles in a season.

And yet Vince Williams can't manage it, can't even get close, and I am to be worried about replacing him with Bush and Barron and the run defense getting worse?? What they were doing with the ILBs was not working, they have to shake it up and Williams starting job should not be safe.

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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:39 pm 
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I've never understood the Williams love and contract extension. He isn't big, fast, good against the run or pass. He's average at best at everything and exposed when counted on as the starter. This team has been bad against the run for years. It might be a passing league but getting the ball stuffed down you throat is demoralizing for the whole team, especially in the 4th quarter. Remember the Dallas game a couple years ago when they just shredded us even after the late touchdown with hardly any time left on the clock? Speed is great but until they find more talent down the middle of the field this defense will continue to disappoint.

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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:48 pm 
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cop1211 wrote:
I can’t fathom the fascination with Brian Allen, looks like Tarzan plays like Jane, and that is just practice. Dude has been on the team 3 years, with the dumpster fire that has been the secondary, yet
Still can’t sniff a defensive snap. That dude has taken up a roster spot long enough.

Allen is a JAG, who does nothing well either, but he’s serviceable as a #4 CB for another year.


Two years.

He's a project with unique physical traits and a high ceiling. They knew that when they drafted him. It would be foolish to cut ties before giving him more of a chance.


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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 6:33 am 
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Scunge wrote:
I wish this narrative that Javon Hargrave can't play the run or be an effective NT against the run would stop.

Yeah, maybe people don't like sites like PFF but there are stats out there that show Hargrave is becoming better and better against the run.

And I will say it again, my main issue of our run defense is the sloppy play of our ILBs, failing to reach tackles, taking false steps, guessing, not being able to easily defeat a block by a fullback, sliding off tackles, not able to bring the runner down when they make contact. It was a total shit show in that regard and Vince Williams did a lot of that.

With more and more offenses going to RPO type of offenses having Vince Williams type of thumpers in there on first and second down is asking for trouble.

I have more faith in Bush and Barron fighting through blocks and withstanding pulling guards because it isn't like Vince Williams is Levon Kirkland. I mean come on VW is not the answer as a starter.

How exactly does a Pittsburgh Steeler starting ILB have only 76 tackles in a season??? Yes, that was 14 games but even over a 16 game season that would come out to 86 tackles?? By my count there were 27 ILBs in the NFL that had more tackles than Vince Williams. 27.

How does VW not have over 100 tackles? And how does he not have over 80 solo tackles??

I am not expecting Levon Kirkland type of production but come on even former Steelers ILBs of yesteryear like Earl Holmes and Larry Foote were able to have over 100 tackles in a season.

And yet Vince Williams can't manage it, can't even get close, and I am to be worried about replacing him with Bush and Barron and the run defense getting worse?? What they were doing with the ILBs was not working, they have to shake it up and Williams starting job should not be safe.


Well Bush only had 66 tackles for Michigan, how in the hell does that happen???


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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 6:53 am 
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I'd mention the number of solo tackles for Bush again, too, but it won't help me choke down the Kool Aid.


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 Post subject: Re: Marcus Allen to be moved to LB?
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 8:05 am 
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Yeah, I get that Ice. But those were 66 tackles in just 12 games, projected over a 16 game season? That would be 88 tackles.

His sophomore season he had 95 tackles in 13 games, again projected over a 16 game season that would be 117 tackles.

Hey, I get it, the issues with Bush, the questions about Bush but one thing that can't be argued is that Vince Williams as a starting ILB is not comparable to Larry Foote or Earl Holmes, those guys could make tackles, had no problem getting 100+ tackles. Williams is just meh and needs to be replaced.

I don't understand the love/hate of certain players. Some people love Eli Rogers, some people love Vince Williams. Some people hate Sean Davis, some people hate Xavier Grimble, some people hate James Conner. There were people arguing for Landry Jones to be Ben's backup last August, saying he was a good/decent backup QB!!

This is why I love this board, we are all nuts, we all have biases and sometimes don't think straight, me included! :lol:

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