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 Post subject: Re: 4th Round Pick 122 Benny Snell RB Kentucky
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 9:55 am 
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I worry that having a bruising, ball-control, back like this pushes Tomlin to get even more conservative with one-score leads and in games against bad teams.

Snell can certainly help us extend drives in those situations, if used correctly. But if we're going to use him as an excuse to go run-run-pass the second we get any type of lead, we're going to let up a lot of 4th quarter leads.


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 Post subject: Re: 4th Round Pick 122 Benny Snell RB Kentucky
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 10:12 am 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
I worry that having a bruising, ball-control, back like this pushes Tomlin to get even more conservative with one-score leads and in games against bad teams.

Snell can certainly help us extend drives in those situations, if used correctly. But if we're going to use him as an excuse to go run-run-pass the second we get any type of lead, we're going to let up a lot of 4th quarter leads.

There’s a reason they drafted this guy...and it wasn’t for his prowess in the passing game!
RPO has a different meaning in Pittsburgh... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 4th Round Pick 122 Benny Snell RB Kentucky
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 10:36 am 
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Havoc wrote:
I'm not excited about a 4 minute Snell offense. 4 minute offense is not the problem with this team. Our coaches don't need to be thinking about easing up on the gas pedal, they need to be thinking about scoring more points.

The Saints offense was better when Ingram was hurt. Kamara is better for them and it's not close. Ingram slows down their offense, makes them easier to defend, makes them less dynamic and less dangerous.

In today's league... I would go small/speed at RB (with good hands for the passing game). I want guys who can eat up the space Roger Goodell is freely offering every team if they have the personnel to take advantage. Slashers over shifty.

I was glad to see slow motion Leveon gone so I'm not excited about adding a slow RB.

Having said all that...

Snell gives us (probably quality) depth at the position which is worth something.



I have followed both Atlanta's 2 back offense with Freeman and Coleman and the Saints 2 back with Kamara and Ingram. And even Chicago when they had Jordan Howard and Tarik Cohen. It is way more nuanced then people think having a RB by committee approach. The Saints are really, truly going to miss Ingram and Kamara is going to miss him a great deal. I will be interested to see if Kamara can withstand the bumps and bruises, after doing some of the 'dirty work' that Ingram had to do at times in that offense. The Saints knew perfectly how to maximize Kamara by having him paired with Ingram, by freeing him up, keeping him 'clean'.

The Saints signed Latavius Murray in free agency when Ingram moved on to Baltimore. The Ravens are not stupid, why did they sign a slow RB like Ingram when they are assembling this fast offense?? Because an offense requires a multitude of players that can do different things and Ingram is going to be the guy that does the 'dirty work' that frees up others to be the flashy game breakers.

If the Saints really thought Kamara was going to be the man now why did they sign Murray? Because Peyton is not stupid, he knows that Kamara is at his best sharing the load and he needs a big back to keep him clean and fresh. Murray has rushed for almost 3,700 yards in his 5 NFL seasons, had a 1,000 yard season in Oakland one year. He is 230 pounds.

My great hope is that the whole reason for the change from James Saxon to Eddie Faulkner is that Tomlin does want to do a RB by committee approach. That he does want to mix and match and get the best out of Conner, Samuels and Snell. I have to wonder if the frustration over the years with this offense is because Tomlin delegates responsibility to his OC and position coaches too much. Maybe Saxon really believed feeding one RB was the answer, maybe Todd Haley believed the same, both of them are gone now, maybe Randy Fitchner and Eddie Faulkner feel differently and Tomlin will allow them to morph/change the offense.

Anyway, I am happy with the pick of Snell if Samuels makes good on his claims of losing weight and comes into camp faster, quicker. I know some are still down on Conner but the way I see it he is not a finished product yet, he will continue to get better and better. All 3 of them will and if we have an offense that utilizes all 3 and keeps them fresh and rested throughout the season??

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 Post subject: Re: 4th Round Pick 122 Benny Snell RB Kentucky
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 11:24 am 
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Scunge wrote:
Havoc wrote:
I'm not excited about a 4 minute Snell offense. 4 minute offense is not the problem with this team. Our coaches don't need to be thinking about easing up on the gas pedal, they need to be thinking about scoring more points.

The Saints offense was better when Ingram was hurt. Kamara is better for them and it's not close. Ingram slows down their offense, makes them easier to defend, makes them less dynamic and less dangerous.

In today's league... I would go small/speed at RB (with good hands for the passing game). I want guys who can eat up the space Roger Goodell is freely offering every team if they have the personnel to take advantage. Slashers over shifty.

I was glad to see slow motion Leveon gone so I'm not excited about adding a slow RB.

Having said all that...

Snell gives us (probably quality) depth at the position which is worth something.



I have followed both Atlanta's 2 back offense with Freeman and Coleman and the Saints 2 back with Kamara and Ingram. And even Chicago when they had Jordan Howard and Tarik Cohen. It is way more nuanced then people think having a RB by committee approach. The Saints are really, truly going to miss Ingram and Kamara is going to miss him a great deal. I will be interested to see if Kamara can withstand the bumps and bruises, after doing some of the 'dirty work' that Ingram had to do at times in that offense. The Saints knew perfectly how to maximize Kamara by having him paired with Ingram, by freeing him up, keeping him 'clean'.

The Saints signed Latavius Murray in free agency when Ingram moved on to Baltimore. The Ravens are not stupid, why did they sign a slow RB like Ingram when they are assembling this fast offense?? Because an offense requires a multitude of players that can do different things and Ingram is going to be the guy that does the 'dirty work' that frees up others to be the flashy game breakers.

If the Saints really thought Kamara was going to be the man now why did they sign Murray? Because Peyton is not stupid, he knows that Kamara is at his best sharing the load and he needs a big back to keep him clean and fresh. Murray has rushed for almost 3,700 yards in his 5 NFL seasons, had a 1,000 yard season in Oakland one year. He is 230 pounds.

My great hope is that the whole reason for the change from James Saxon to Eddie Faulkner is that Tomlin does want to do a RB by committee approach. That he does want to mix and match and get the best out of Conner, Samuels and Snell. I have to wonder if the frustration over the years with this offense is because Tomlin delegates responsibility to his OC and position coaches too much. Maybe Saxon really believed feeding one RB was the answer, maybe Todd Haley believed the same, both of them are gone now, maybe Randy Fitchner and Eddie Faulkner feel differently and Tomlin will allow them to morph/change the offense.

Anyway, I am happy with the pick of Snell if Samuels makes good on his claims of losing weight and comes into camp faster, quicker. I know some are still down on Conner but the way I see it he is not a finished product yet, he will continue to get better and better. All 3 of them will and if we have an offense that utilizes all 3 and keeps them fresh and rested throughout the season??


Scunge,

I do believe Snell can be useful and as I stated he probably adds quality depth.

We don't have a Kamara so it's not like we needed a big bruiser to take a load off a thinner and maybe more fragile guy. We could have added another Samuels or even another Conner and been just fine at RB.

Conner already gives us a toughness, bulldog mentality at the RB position. It's my contention that it was not necessary to add a big bruiser to the mix.

You win in basketball with 5 guys having a variety of skillsets on the court creating an overall simultaneous synergy but that's different from RB where probably only 1 guy is on the field at a time. It's also more impactful at the wr position where you have multiple skillets on the field at the same time.

I wonder if the Saints would have traded for Murray if they could have 3 Kamaras.

Warner's rams had guys all over the field who could score anytime the football was in their hands putting incredible pressure on opponents.

I'm not buying the idea that Tomlin wants to step aside and let his coaches coach at this stage in his career. I think he wants to assert his football philosophy and according to Labriola he does this to a degree on offense.

Also on Tomlin...

I can't stand him, he 100% lost me in NO when we pulled the plug on greatness with our season on the line up by 4 after our passing game shredded them in the 3rd quarter. I see adding Snell as increasing the possibility of Tomlin's ass puckering, giving Tomlin the crutch his conservative nature craves. Having said that, 2019 is a new season and I'm open to getting surprised.


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 Post subject: Re: 4th Round Pick 122 Benny Snell RB Kentucky
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 12:33 pm 
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Quote:
I have to wonder if the frustration over the years with this offense is because Tomlin delegates responsibility to his OC and position coaches too much.


That would make him even less of a quality HC than some of us already think if he’s beholden to the decisions his RB coach is making.

He’s the boss. Position coaches operate under his umbrella. Not the other way around.

Our backs have been deployed exactly how Mikey T wishes they be deployed.


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 Post subject: Re: 4th Round Pick 122 Benny Snell RB Kentucky
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:19 am 
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What Jaylen Samuels did last season, with the limited opportunities he was given, is show high level skills. When he got the start against NE, he put up 172 yds from scrimmage. I think Samuels is underrated.

Jaylen Samuels Highlights from 2018:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqwVEPdaFDw


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 Post subject: Re: 4th Round Pick 122 Benny Snell RB Kentucky
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 9:49 am 
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Stallworth16 wrote:
What Jaylen Samuels did last season, with the limited opportunities he was given, is show high level skills. When he got the start against NE, he put up 172 yds from scrimmage. I think Samuels is underrated.

Jaylen Samuels Highlights from 2018:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqwVEPdaFDw


Hopefully he doesn't get Ben killed this year. I do like the player. I think he's capable of carving out a Mewelde Moore like career for himself.


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 Post subject: Re: 4th Round Pick 122 Benny Snell RB Kentucky
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:09 am 
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At times, Samuels looks really slow to me. But, after watching that highlight reel, he reminds me a bit of JuJu in that he's just fast enough when it counts. There were a couple of runs where it looked like he would not be able to get the edge but somehow manages to turn the corner anyway. Just fast and strong enough to squeak by the defender. Must be some sort of subtle football instinct that is hard to measure. JuJu has it and maybe Samuels too. I am looking forward to seeing him develop this year.


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 Post subject: Re: 4th Round Pick 122 Benny Snell RB Kentucky
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:01 pm 
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TTP wrote:
At times, Samuels looks really slow to me. But, after watching that highlight reel, he reminds me a bit of JuJu in that he's just fast enough when it counts. There were a couple of runs where it looked like he would not be able to get the edge but somehow manages to turn the corner anyway. Just fast and strong enough to squeak by the defender. Must be some sort of subtle football instinct that is hard to measure. JuJu has it and maybe Samuels too. I am looking forward to seeing him develop this year.
Yeah. 40 times are deceiving. We've all seen JuJu run away from D-backs for long scores. Playing speed is what counts. Take a DB for a couple of deep go routes and they're gasping for air. Then throw. That's the thing with AB. He goes 120% each play, and by the end of the game defenders are tired.

Whatever, I think samuels will get more carries and show more good stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: 4th Round Pick 122 Benny Snell RB Kentucky
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:03 pm 
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Jaylen Samuels vs New England:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZz4famJ1g0


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 Post subject: Re: 4th Round Pick 122 Benny Snell RB Kentucky
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 11:18 am 
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Havoc wrote:
We don't have a Kamara so it's not like we needed a big bruiser to take a load off a thinner and maybe more fragile guy. We could have added another Samuels or even another Conner and been just fine at RB.

Conner already gives us a toughness, bulldog mentality at the RB position. It's my contention that it was not necessary to add a big bruiser to the mix.

You win in basketball with 5 guys having a variety of skillsets on the court creating an overall simultaneous synergy but that's different from RB where probably only 1 guy is on the field at a time. It's also more impactful at the wr position where you have multiple skillets on the field at the same time.

I wonder if the Saints would have traded for Murray if they could have 3 Kamaras.


It remains to be seen what Samuels may or may not be, this season will give us more proof to be sure. I like Kamara a lot but let us not praise him too much as a runner. I mean what has he done really as a runner?? He had 728 yard rushing as a rookie and averaged 6.1 yards per carry. But then in his second season he carried the ball more and rushed for 883 yards but that yards per carry dropped to 4.6. His yards per target and yards per touch overall dropped from his rookie season. He had the same 81 catches in his second season but the yards per catch dropped from 10.2 to 8.8. Again, I don't think he can carry the load, be a 1,200 yard rusher and still catch 80+ balls and not have his effectiveness at both suffer. That is why the Saints/Peyton brought in Murray.

I think Samuels can be our Kamara, but I also think that the 3 RBs that we have ARE different enough. Samuels I feel is that elite pass catcher at RB but can also be used more like an H-back, move TE. Snell I would argue is more elite than the other two at short yardage and goal line as a runner. I also think he is a perfect closer who can just gash a tired defense in the 4th quarter. Conner is different than the other two in that he is the most complete back of the three. We have seen what Conner can do as a runner, blocker, catcher, we have seen him produce with a heavy workload. You can leave Conner in the game for an entire series and NOT have to change the offense because of him. I also think that Conner is going to show up much slimmer in his 3rd season. I think Snell will be the heaviest at 225-230 or so, Samuels may trim down to 215-220 and I actually think that Conner may join Samuels in that same 215-220 pound range. Both Conner and Samuels have talked quite a bit this offseason how they want to train, drop weight and get quicker, faster. If Conner is going to lose more weight then Snell probably does have more of an advantage in short yardage and as a closer. I don't see Snell and Conner being clones of each other at all

As I see it Conner is going to be spelled by both Samuels and Snell and that is a good thing. No need burn him out before the playoffs have started. I don't really see the three of them as carbon copies of each other, there are differences, nuances. Again, I think the Steelers took the attitude that Conner is their feature back and then they added two players to complement him in Snell and Samuels. It seems so obvious that they are indeed serious about having more of a RB by committee where 2 or 3 RBs are involved instead of one RB who gets all of the touches. The moving on from Saxon to Faulkner, the emphasis of Conner and Samuels to lose weight and get quicker, faster, it is almost like they knew that there was going to be a need for a bigger, bruising RB, hence the drafting of Snell.

I don't know, sure, it is me reading between the lines, reading the tea leaves, so to speak, but I like what I am seeing, there does seem to be a plan, things are being implemented

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 Post subject: Re: 4th Round Pick 122 Benny Snell RB Kentucky
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:42 pm 
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I saw that they were working Sutton Smith @ fb yesterday. If he can take Nix's place, it may enable Samuels to be active on gamedays. If not, he will likely be riding the pine every Sunday.


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 Post subject: Re: 4th Round Pick 122 Benny Snell RB Kentucky
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:18 pm 
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Lynch, you are too funny man. Why wouldn't the Steelers be able to have all of their RBs active each and every week??

Conner, Samuels, Snell and Nix, those are your four RBs and for them to be all active would mean a collective 64 games for the year, barring injury.

Back in 2017, Bell's last season, the RB group had 63 collective games where they were active. Oops, there goes that narrative that you can't have 4 RBs active each week.

Smith getting time at FB is interesting, that is where he started in high school. I just see it as a way of preparing for depth but it also shows that the Steelers and Faulkner are approaching the RBs differently this year, it is not the status quo, there is a plan afoot, one that may not be completely known to us.

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 Post subject: Re: 4th Round Pick 122 Benny Snell RB Kentucky
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:36 pm 
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They only dress three now dude. Sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: 4th Round Pick 122 Benny Snell RB Kentucky
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:26 pm 
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3 x 16 is 48 dude, sorry.

Last season Nix led the way with 16 games active.
Samuels was second with 14 game active.
Conner was third with 13 games active.
Ridley was fourth with 10 games active.

You add that up and last season they had 53 active games from their 4 man RB group. Conner did miss 3 games to injury and so Ridley ended up being active for 10 total games, but even discounting those 3 games, he was still active for 7 games, and this for a player that did not play special teams, he had a whopping 12 snaps on special teams.

This year I see the team probably using Snell a whole lot more on special teams than they ever did with Ridley, and with the TE situation being sort of unknown behind McDonald, Samuels is probably going to see a lot of time as an H-back, move TE in addition to RB duties. So, both will be active, play on offense and special teams, Samuels had 110 snaps on special teams last season.

I think the RB group will be closer to 64 active games than 48.

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 Post subject: Re: 4th Round Pick 122 Benny Snell RB Kentucky
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:31 pm 
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Uh-huh... Trending one way doncha think?

You can continue stroking off over a switch to a 4-3, or three headed RB attacks if ya want though, it's cool.


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