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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:40 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
thru 3 rnds the steelers have cost me 2 tvs

Excellent, the coveted 66% Broken TV rating!




:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:47 pm 
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We've got plenty of time to debate these guys, and we won't know until 3 years from now... but I didn't just guess on my board. Watched a shitpile of game tapes, especially re: Safety, WR, EDGE, ILB, & CB. I'm willing to be proven wrong but I know what I saw--sometimes I'm looking at different stuff or with a different eye, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:49 pm 
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I have a feeling Hall is going to be the best Wr in this draft...Since I got drug into this and you asked

I have an issue with a player who would have struggled for playing time at UGA in 2019.(Cager Pickens Blaylock) it drove his decision to turn pro. He was basically shown the door and advised to turn pro.I have seen every single game he played. Kirby was done with him. Cost him to many games

He is a terrible route runner. Horrible technician. He looks clueless when the ball is in the air. He tracks the ball like Helen Keller. He doesn't understand how to use his frame. He has zero desire to work to improve. He doesn't like football by his own admission
He has horrible hands(Not official but 18 dropped balls the past two seasons) Frome stopped throwing him the ball
He is gutless...Wont go across the middle of the field. Wants no part of the game between the hashes.
He was pulled from numerous games at UGA for performance(Dropped balls/ Poor routes/ Giving up on plays)
The better the competition the less he played....Hardman cost UGA wins against Bama not once but twice

I think he may have to move to corner to play in the NFL...I think he looks great in shorts. Just a terrible football player.

My top Wr targets for the Steelers outside of the 1st round


Harmon
Harry
Hall
Jennings
McLaurin

I will say this...I would take Harmon or Hall over any Wr in the 1st round

I think Harmon goes in the 2nd before the Steelers pick
Hall goes between the Steelers picks in the 3rd round.

Hall has a talent you cant coach

He tracks the deep ball as good as any receiver I have ever seen
He catches the deep ball at a high rate
He ran away from every DB in the SEC

Harmon has similar skills with less speed...But the best hands in the draft. He is Larry Fitz without the hype

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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:06 pm 
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It's funny, haven't heard any of that on Hardman, nor seen it in the multiple cut up games I saw. You say he cost the games vs Alabama, but he had one ball knocked away in the EZ in one game and scored Two TDs in the other game.

I know you'll say (with some basis in fact) that you're a better scout than everyone, but here's the consensus, good and bad:

Walter, pick 88
Quote:
Outside of scoring touchdowns, which can be fluky, Mecole Hardman wasn't very productive in 2018 with just 30 catches in regular-season play. That said, Hardman has blazing speed and can double as a kick returner. He's someone who should've definitely returned to school, as he's not a finished product as a receiver.


Zierlein
Quote:
NFL Comparison
Tyler Lockett
Overview
Raw but explosive with burst to uncover underneath and a second gear to threaten over the top. Hardman is a relative newcomer to the position and it shows up at times in routes and his struggles competing for the ball in traffic. Hardman could develop into a lesser version of Tyreek Hill with his playmaking potential after the catch, on deep balls and as a returner. Speed kills in today's game and Hardman's could be coveted on Day 2 (Rounds 2-3).
Strengths
Only two seasons as receiver and is likely to rapidly develop
Too sudden to press
Rapid turnover when burning down the track
Early burst turns to pull-away speed on vertical routes
Smooth ball-tracker bringing it in over his shoulder
Combines speed/quickness to uncover on all three levels
Bouncy leaper
Wiggle to elude first tackle and speed to house it
Tough runner with ball in his hands.
Explosive punt-return potential, averaging a little over 20 yards per return this year
Offers gunner value on punt cover
Weaknesses
Just two of seven receiving touchdowns against SEC competition
Too reliant upon athletic gifts to get open at this stage
Lacks commitment and urgency on in-breaking routes
Appears to hear footsteps
Inconsistent acceleration out of breaks and cuts routes off short
Makes the easy catches but struggles with contested
Hasn't learned to body defenders and protect the throw
Sources Tell Us

"He can go! He didn't play receiver in high school and came in as a defensive back so we haven't even seen what he's going to be able to do once he learns his position." - AFC wide receivers coach


Kelly (TDN)
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Route Running – Hardman ran a mostly limited route tree during his junior season at Georgia, but his traits suggest that he’ll translate into a fuller one in the NFL. His cuts can be flexible and explosive, as he can turn and accelerate at a fast pace. Hardman would show head fakes that got the defensive backs biting, before smooth cuts to separate. His best routes came vertically when he was given a free release, as defensive backs struggled to keep up with his acceleration. Operating a lot out of the slot, Hardman rarely saw any press coverage. When he was contacted in his stems, he struggled to deal with it. Additionally, Hardman could lack awareness when he was crowded at his route breaks, sometimes breaking directly into contact. On certain reps, he can take too long to get his around around to the quarterback.

Athleticism / Speed – Hardman is one of the more explosive athletes at the wide receiver position in the NFL class. Though he’s a bit light, Hardman has a muscular frame that suggests durability won’t be a weakness. He has a rare combination of quickness and speed, and can explode in an instant. Developed on the lateral chain, he can shift his weight at full stride. He should test like an elite athlete in his agility drills at the NFL Combine.

Hands / Ball Skills – Hardman makes a conscious effort to always be catching the ball with his hands. At all angles, he will use his hands to pluck the ball out of the air. While he fails to fully extend back towards the catchpoint, the ball will rarely come into his body. Hardman has suffered from a number of concentration drops, but when he’s able to catch the ball in stride, he transitions into a runner at an elite pace. Running at full speed doesn’t seem to phase him, as he accelerates through the catchpoint with ease.

Body Control – Hardman is in total control of his body and cuts, as his shiftiness adds to his elusiveness. When attacking the catchpoint, he positions his body well and adjusts his angles when tracking the ball.

Ball Carrier – Hardman is a natural ball carrier with a feel for space. His acceleration and burst allows him to pick up yards in an instant. He sees openings well, taking them vertically with his quick movements. On jet sweeps, he knows when to take the alley or bounce further outside. He sets his blockers up before moving laterally, an ode to his feel for the defense. When he sees contact coming, his built up speed can allow him to bring some force as a ball carrier, especially for a smaller athlete.

Stalk Blocking – Hardman is an effort blocker, who does his 1/11th to the best of his ability. When he engages in a block, his feet are moving at a fast pace. Due to his lack of size, he rarely takes on defensive backs head on. Rather, he tries to shield off half of the defender and run his feet to turn them. Added strength in the lower half could open up multiple lanes for the ball carrier.

Versatility – Hardman is one of the more versatile players in the class, as he took reps as a defensive back during his time at Georgia. A talented ball carrier, Hardman was featured as a kick and punt returner. With a ton of production as both, he has potential in that role for an NFL team. He will be used as a versatile slot receiver with 4 down ability at the next level.

BEST TRAIT – Speed / Ball Carrier

WORST TRAIT – Strength

RED FLAGS – N/A

Hardman is one of the most electric weapons in the NFL Draft class. He uses his speed and fluidity to stretch the field from the slot, showing promise on deep balls. Additionally, his ability in space can be utilized in the RPO game. Hardman’s field vision and elusiveness allow him to be one of the best kick and punt return prospects in the NFL Draft. Hardman had just mediocre production, which was likely due to the talent surrounding him on Georgia’s offense. He projects as a better professional receiver than college, an an NFL team may be able to better utilize his ability. After the NFL Combine, I expect Hardman to be considered on Day 2 of the NFL Draft.


Ledyard
Quote:
PROS: Speed, speed and more speed. Can run by off coverage with ease and tracks the ball well over his shoulder. Used as a gadget player and showed exceptional acceleration to the edge out of the backfield.

Outside of a vertical, best route is the deep out from the slot. Showed good burst out of his break and the ability to finish along the sideline on a few occasions. Overall athleticism is impressive, short-area burst matches the long speed, and his hops are said to be eye-popping.

CONS: Listed 5-foot-10, 183 pounds and size is a limitation on tape. Willing blocker, but too often overwhelmed by bigger corners. Can get gripped up vs press coverage and has a hard time working free. Have not seen any examples of him winning in contested catch situations.

Route tree is typically simple and Georgia would scheme him open from time-to-time. Sense of timing and efficient movements in routes is inconsistent. Only a sophomore last year, but could easily be described as raw and more of a specialized piece than a complete receiver. Caught only 25 balls all year in a run-heavy offense, so still very much in the process of building an NFL-caliber resume.

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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:01 pm 
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Raiders offering all remaining picks and the still warm corpse of Jordy Nelson to move up.


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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:24 pm 
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jordy nelson was released

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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:27 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
jordy nelson was released

There goes the value in that deal lol

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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:46 pm 
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Hence the still warm corpse...


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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:50 pm 
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B2B trust me I want to like Hardman.

He broke my heart a few times(Gambling)...So I am very rough on him

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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:53 pm 
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AHA!

Now we get to the root of FC's prospect rankings :lol: lol.

It's all good, man. Lively discussion is what's great about this draft season. Takes our minds off of the pain for a couple of weeks.

#LGP

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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:22 pm 
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You're a Hardman, Jon Snow. Sorry, couldn't help myself.


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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:14 pm 
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Ice, you traitorous scUM!
Passing on Bosa for a midget qb is one thing but drafting from my nemesis’ back yard is crossing the line of our internet mock draft friendship!


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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:25 pm 
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SteelDrama wrote:
Ice, you traitorous scUM!
Passing on Bosa for a midget qb is one thing but drafting from my nemesis’ back yard is crossing the line of our internet mock draft friendship!

Maybe he’s hoping to rally the Cards on Revenge Tour 2.0... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:33 pm 
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Tomlin had dinner with Chase Winovich. He will be a great ST player

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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:45 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
Tomlin had dinner with Chase Winovich. He will be a great ST player

He's the Chickillo with the 2.0 upgrade.

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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:00 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
jebrick wrote:
Tomlin had dinner with Chase Winovich. He will be a great ST player

He's the Chickillo with the 2.0 upgrade.


The only thing he has over Sutton-Smith is Winovich knows how to use his hands. You could put their combine numbers together and not tell them apart ( too much).

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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:10 pm 
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I don't see any of them as stand up 3-4 OLBs. I don't think any of us wants to see Winovich in space and I don't believe Sutton Smith is big enough or strong enough to be an edge rusher. He seems pretty suited to 4-3 OLB/blitzer.

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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:12 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
jebrick wrote:
Tomlin had dinner with Chase Winovich. He will be a great ST player

He's the Chickillo with the 2.0 upgrade.


The technique in his game is pretty advanced. He could max out at Chick 2.0, or he could film nerd, motor and technique his way into Mike Vrabel 2.0. He's also a passionate, vocal leader. After watching a lot of him on the opposing side, I respect the kid.

Unlike potential Steelers first round pick Devin Bush, he found ways to make a play damn near every single game.


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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:33 pm 
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Ice wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
jebrick wrote:
Tomlin had dinner with Chase Winovich. He will be a great ST player

He's the Chickillo with the 2.0 upgrade.


The technique in his game is pretty advanced. He could max out at Chick 2.0, or he could film nerd, motor and technique his way into Mike Vrabel 2.0. He's also a passionate, vocal leader. After watching a lot of him on the opposing side, I respect the kid.

Unlike potential Steelers first round pick Devin Bush, he found ways to make a play damn near every single game.

Doesn't have the length of Vrabel, does he?

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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:53 am 
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Ice wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
jebrick wrote:
Tomlin had dinner with Chase Winovich. He will be a great ST player

He's the Chickillo with the 2.0 upgrade.


The technique in his game is pretty advanced. He could max out at Chick 2.0, or he could film nerd, motor and technique his way into Mike Vrabel 2.0. He's also a passionate, vocal leader. After watching a lot of him on the opposing side, I respect the kid.

Unlike potential Steelers first round pick Devin Bush, he found ways to make a play damn near every single game.


chick 2.0 is a good comparison. Winovich needs to get much stronger to play in the NFL. He will have all the troubles that Chick currently has which is zero sand in the pants and not enough strength to hold up for a game. That is a player I take in the 4-6 round range. Not round 2 like is discussed.

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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:01 am 
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In trying to dig up Mike Vrabel length numbers, I turned up his 4.99 and 4.93 40 numbers in this article, which might be appropriate for both players.

https://www.titansonline.com/news/mike- ... l-20408475

Brick, I still want to hear why Terry McLaurin over Paris Campbell. You just don't like France?


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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:03 am 
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Ice wrote:
In trying to dig up Mike Vrabel length numbers, I turned up his 4.99 and 4.93 40 numbers in this article, which might be appropriate for both players.

https://www.titansonline.com/news/mike- ... l-20408475

Brick, I still want to hear why Terry McLaurin over Paris Campbell. You just don't like France?


Before the combine, he was pegged as a 3rd round talent. I agree with that as he has suspect hands and runs poor routes. Players I take higher run better routes. I like Campbell in the 3rd round, not in the 2nd round. A comparison for him that I have seen is Cordarelle Patterson. Hopefully he does not have Patterson's smarts ( or lack their of).

McLaurin is a better route runner. Still a 3rd round pick because he is about at his ceiling.

Route running is a premier skill coming out of college. Good route runners make an impact on the game quicker. Good route runners get open when they lose their speed.

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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:25 am 
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I'll go with natural hands, speed (though almost a dead heat, Campbell has done more with the ball in his hands) and short area quicks/burst, and say Campbell has more upside. Both are A+ character guys, and I think both would have been drafted higher if they had gotten another year of work in the Ryan Day air-raid offense. That whole WR group (Johnny D will get drafted, too, and could very well stick on a roster) is better than they are given credit for.


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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:34 am 
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Ice wrote:
I'll go with natural hands, speed (though almost a dead heat, Campbell has done more with the ball in his hands) and short area quicks/burst, and say Campbell has more upside. Both are A+ character guys, and I think both would have been drafted higher if they had gotten another year of work in the Ryan Day air-raid offense. That whole WR group (Johnny D will get drafted, too, and could very well stick on a roster) is better than they are given credit for.

I think there are at least two more WRs that no one here is talking about who might have better NFL careers than any of the OSU guys, but we'll see. I hesitate to mention them with the draft ongoing.

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 Post subject: Re: SF Board Draft 2019: Discussion, Brickbats, and Harangue
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:06 am 
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jebrick wrote:
Tomlin had dinner with Chase Winovich. He will be a great ST player




ill bet he did dinner and a movie with devin bush and probably some action to boot :lol:

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