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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:41 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
COR was actually making an important point.

People are predisposed to believe certain things...then unless they do a lot of work not to, they will seek out evidence that supports what they already believe. Disconfirming evidence will be ignored or be interpreted as confirming evidence.

Thus...there will be people who see Colin Kaepernick wearing a Che shirt and will believe he’s a commie socialist...just as there are those who will see white Catholic kids wearing MAGA hats and automatically assume they are racist.

They’ll look for confirming evidence for each of these beliefs, and disconfirming evidence will be ignored.

This is important to remember because it’s why people get sucked up in these stories like what happened at the Lincoln Memorial. The people who released the clip that made the kids look bad did it on purpose because they KNEW those who associate MAGA hats with racism would automatically interpret the actions the kids were taking as disrespectful and racist.

Even when seen in context of what actually happened, it took a while for those who were predisposed to view the MAGA kids unfavorably to change their opinions (and some haven’t yet).

Same thing...those who were offended at what CK did by protesting the flag will be predisposed to believe all sorts of negative things about Colin Kaepernick.

Granted, he may have tried to make this point,
HOWEVER
by singling out the "conservatives in defense of the MAGA kids" and completely ignoring the racist hate-laced bigotry of the group of men that started the whole mess, he's falling right in to the trap of being "predisposed to believe certain things"..
...and, much much worse, he's propagating distorted misinformation to support an agenda

AFIAC, the point he tried to make just caved in on itself...

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:56 pm 
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Steeledge wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
COR was actually making an important point.

People are predisposed to believe certain things...then unless they do a lot of work not to, they will seek out evidence that supports what they already believe. Disconfirming evidence will be ignored or be interpreted as confirming evidence.

Thus...there will be people who see Colin Kaepernick wearing a Che shirt and will believe he’s a commie socialist...just as there are those who will see white Catholic kids wearing MAGA hats and automatically assume they are racist.

They’ll look for confirming evidence for each of these beliefs, and disconfirming evidence will be ignored.

This is important to remember because it’s why people get sucked up in these stories like what happened at the Lincoln Memorial. The people who released the clip that made the kids look bad did it on purpose because they KNEW those who associate MAGA hats with racism would automatically interpret the actions the kids were taking as disrespectful and racist.

Even when seen in context of what actually happened, it took a while for those who were predisposed to view the MAGA kids unfavorably to change their opinions (and some haven’t yet).

Same thing...those who were offended at what CK did by protesting the flag will be predisposed to believe all sorts of negative things about Colin Kaepernick.

Granted, he may have tried to make this point,
HOWEVER
by singling out the "conservatives in defense of the MAGA kids" and completely ignoring the racist hate-laced bigotry of the group of men that started the whole mess, he's falling right in to the trap of being "predisposed to believe certain things"..
...and, much much worse, he's propagating distorted misinformation to support an agenda

AFIAC, the point he tried to make just caved in on itself...


The radical Black Israelites were irrelevant to the point being made. Of course COR’s pre-disposed to believe certain things.

We all are.

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:08 pm 
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44LetzRide wrote:
I would be satisfied if police did not use deadly force on people when it is NOT warranted - especially when it's clear to see that people of color are most often the ones who end up dead. Deadly force is necessary sometimes - I recognize that. One of these "isolated" incidents is too many. Those of us who truly care about this country recognize that no matter what race, every life is equally important. I'm part of a long line of men who defended this country in the armed forces - personally served in the US Army. I'm a man who loves his country. With the smallest amount of objectivity, anyone can see the police brutality is disproportionate. What's even worse, is the consequences for those acts don't deter it.

So, you live in SC, right?
How close to Charlotte?
Remember Keith Lamont Scott?
Were you more "satisfied" by:
the riots that followed his death, resulting in senseless loss of life and billion$
...OR...
when irrefutable evidence was proffered that he DID have a gun, and that "deadly force", by an African American officer, was in fact merited?

...I'll wait...

...in the meantime, it's clear to me that we live in a society, fueled by feverish social media, that tends to jump the gun, overreact, and justify the committing heinous evil in response to what they "want to" believe is the whole story...

And I will also say that the knee-jerk mob mentality is much worse here in the good ole USA than anywhere else in the world, but hey, that's part of the cost of freedom, right?

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:31 pm 
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Ah, the offseason is here. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:05 pm 
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Quote:
Every news outlet was reporting on it and he made his opinions on abortion known.


I take it his opinion on the matter bothers you. No need to dwell on it however as it appears Tebow’s prayers went unanswered.

So it seems that instead of posting about it here you should be out in the streets celebrating your state now allowing full term abortion (for any reason) right up to the due date. I mean, who can be bothered all those previous months of pregnancy deciding to keep the child or not right? Better to just wait till the very last possible moment before birth to make the call. Keeps all options on the table for mamma up to D Day. And now instead of being the “due date” or “delivery day” it can also refer to the death day.

A “historic victory for New Yorkers and their progressive values” decried Cuomo.

So don’t miss it man. Get out there and let loose. Huge “victories” such as this don’t come along often in life. Get out there and celebrate.

The new law Cuomo signed does lead to some confusion however. It’s so hard to deferenciate what is moral and not moral. I’m glad there are people like Cuomo to tell us however.

If I’m following correctly (and please bear with me, I’m new to this and just trying to get I believe the term is “woke”) full term abortion right up to the due date is moral and a major victory that it is now allowed in your state.

But at the same time, the death penalty is “morally indefensible” according to Cuomo. So confusing.

It’s moral to kill a child that has fully developed but its “morally indefensible” to kill someone that has committed atrocious acts of violence and taken the life of others?

Is there a guidebook or something that helps those not indoctrinated in progressivism better understand this stuff? Because on the surface the two look highly contradictory.

And since Cuomo says there is nothing wrong with doing full term up to the due date abortions, why not just save the taxpayers some money and oh I dunno, allow a 24-48 hour grace period after the birth where you can smother the child on your own and drop the body off at a Planned Parenthood so they can sell the parts?

Maybe next year for that one.

Anyways have a good time tonight. I believe the bridges and towers around the city will be illuminated pink in celebration of this huge victory. Still not sure who wins here but that’s another discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:41 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:45 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:59 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
Every news outlet was reporting on it and he made his opinions on abortion known.


I take it his opinion on the matter bothers you. No need to dwell on it however as it appears Tebow’s prayers went unanswered.

So it seems that instead of posting about it here you should be out in the streets celebrating your state now allowing full term abortion (for any reason) right up to the due date. I mean, who can be bothered all those previous months of pregnancy deciding to keep the child or not right? Better to just wait till the very last possible moment before birth to make the call. Keeps all options on the table for mamma up to D Day. And now instead of being the “due date” or “delivery day” it can also refer to the death day.

A “historic victory for New Yorkers and their progressive values” decried Cuomo.

So don’t miss it man. Get out there and let loose. Huge “victories” such as this don’t come along often in life. Get out there and celebrate.

The new law Cuomo signed does lead to some confusion however. It’s so hard to deferenciate what is moral and not moral. I’m glad there are people like Cuomo to tell us however.

If I’m following correctly (and please bear with me, I’m new to this and just trying to get I believe the term is “woke”) full term abortion right up to the due date is moral and a major victory that it is now allowed in your state.

But at the same time, the death penalty is “morally indefensible” according to Cuomo. So confusing.

It’s moral to kill a child that has fully developed but its “morally indefensible” to kill someone that has committed atrocious acts of violence and taken the life of others?

Is there a guidebook or something that helps those not indoctrinated in progressivism better understand this stuff? Because on the surface the two look highly contradictory.

And since Cuomo says there is nothing wrong with doing full term up to the due date abortions, why not just save the taxpayers some money and oh I dunno, allow a 24-48 hour grace period after the birth where you can smother the child on your own and drop the body off at a Planned Parenthood so they can sell the parts?

Maybe next year for that one.

Anyways have a good time tonight. I believe the bridges and towers around the city will be illuminated pink in celebration of this huge victory. Still not sure who wins here but that’s another discussion.

OH. MY. GOD.

As usual when it comes to politics, you are confused. Being the bleeding heart liberal that I am, I will once again try to help.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/23/health/new-york-abortion-measures-trnd/index.html

The Supreme Court appears to be more conservative than it has been, and there are those who are concerned that they will overturn Roe v. Wade. If that happens, it will be up to each state to decide whether to allow abortion or not. This is a law saying that in the case of the overturning of Roe v. Wade, the state of NY will still allow abortions. I'm not sure that this law is any different that Roe v. Wade itself, just at the state level instead of federal.

Now as for your "this is a license to kill babies" nonsense...

Quote:
The law also addresses late-term abortions. Under New York's Reproductive Health Act, they can be performed after 24 weeks if the fetus is not viable or when necessary to protect the life of the mother.

For you to make it sound like any woman can just willy nilly decide to abort her baby on her due date just because she's changed her mind and no longer wants to have a baby is highly highly disengenuous. Late term abortions are legal now, but no one can just have one on a whim. Only a very small percentage of abortions are late term, and there has to be a medical necessity because everyone agrees that by the third trimester it's a baby. I don't see that NY's new law changes that, so no, I don't expect it to be legal to smother your baby in NY any time soon.

I've said before you need to find a new source for your news. Whatever "news" source has caused you to lose your mind on this issue...find another one.

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:49 pm 
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Well to be fair P, several articles from various news sources said the new law allowed it “for any reason” and up to due date. I’m not scouting the internet to read every article on the topic.

Full term is full term.

And if you honestly can’t see the contraction (and hypocrisy) of people cheering & celebrating being able to term a pregnancy literally up to the due date while these same people would shed tears and decry the immorality of sentencing to death a scumbag that raped, tortured, killed another human?

Really?

I did however in my post ask for the progressive guidebook to help me sort through these topics.

Progressivism is extremely confusing.

Kind of like I’ll vote yes for increased border security funding (and barriers) when my boy Barrack is in charge but will call it immoral a couple years later.

See, confusing...

How do you know where they stand when they flip flop with the breeze?

Help a brother out here.

And I really made the post to get under Cor-ten’s skin. Don’t really care to debate abortion.

I just find it funny and typical to see him whine about Tebow taking a knee (not during the anthem) all the while justifying what CK does as ok.


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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:12 pm 
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I can't believe you've drawn me into debating abortion.
955876 wrote:
Full term is full term.

See here's the problem. Your mind is not open to all the possibilities.

I once heard a story of a woman who was pregnant and in her third term. The baby had no brain. It was DOA. Can't live without a brain. And, the pregnancy was threatening the woman's life. She would have died had the pregnancy been allowed to continue. So, she had a late term abortion, and I say that was entirely justified. There is concern that if abortion is outlawed that women in that situation would be made to carry the pregnancy to term and die. People are cheering because they believe women's lives are being saved by abortion being made legal.

As for the death penalty, I was once more in favor of the death penalty than I am now. I can remember before there was DNA testing. Then DNA testing made the scene, and they started to test guys on death row and found that some of them were innocent. I cannot help but wonder how many innocent people we've executed.

So I can think that abortion should be legal because sometimes it is justifiable and even the right thing to do. And I can be concerned about the death penalty because our legal system isn't perfect, and once you kill someone, there are no give backs. Not such a contradiction.

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:33 pm 
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Steeledge wrote:
44LetzRide wrote:
I would be satisfied if police did not use deadly force on people when it is NOT warranted - especially when it's clear to see that people of color are most often the ones who end up dead. Deadly force is necessary sometimes - I recognize that. One of these "isolated" incidents is too many. Those of us who truly care about this country recognize that no matter what race, every life is equally important. I'm part of a long line of men who defended this country in the armed forces - personally served in the US Army. I'm a man who loves his country. With the smallest amount of objectivity, anyone can see the police brutality is disproportionate. What's even worse, is the consequences for those acts don't deter it.

So, you live in SC, right?
How close to Charlotte?
Remember Keith Lamont Scott?
Were you more "satisfied" by:
the riots that followed his death, resulting in senseless loss of life and billion$
...OR...
when irrefutable evidence was proffered that he DID have a gun, and that "deadly force", by an African American officer, was in fact merited?

...I'll wait...

...in the meantime, it's clear to me that we live in a society, fueled by feverish social media, that tends to jump the gun, overreact, and justify the committing heinous evil in response to what they "want to" believe is the whole story...

And I will also say that the knee-jerk mob mentality is much worse here in the good ole USA than anywhere else in the world, but hey, that's part of the cost of freedom, right?


In none of my posts do you see me advocate rioting or violence. I'm not familiar with the facts of the Keith Lamont case, so I won't comment about it directly. There are some white cops and some black cops who abuse their authority and do horrible things. Some of them make honest mistakes. And yes, some people jump to the wrong conclusion. But what matters? When people are dying by the hands of the people who should be protecting them, and lawmakers, citizens are slow to rectify that behavior, like it or not, it's a problem. So no, I am no more satisfied with rioting, looting, and vandalism in reaction to racist violence than I am with the unchecked police violence and apathetic attitudes toward correcting the problem.

You've already announced clearly who and what you are. Our exchange isn't going to persuade each other to see these issues differently. Black people have complained about and reported police brutality for decades, and so many people want to believe that these reports are untrue. They can't all be untrue. "Somehow, this violence must have been provoked" or "If he would have just done what the officer told him" are popular rationales for this behavior. Now we live in an age with video evidence readily available in a number of cases, and the response is the same - "well we don't know what happened before this person began recording" or "well they found weed on him or in his apartment". For those who care one iota, the fact that this happens is disturbing. It's preventable and solvable. Does police brutality and the use of deadly force happen? Yes. Does it happen disproportionately higher to unarmed black males? Yes. Are there likely some discrepancies in reporting? Yes-unless everybody and every process recording the data is perfect. There are parasitic members of the media who report for ALL political persuasions. Not just the "liberal" media.

I'm done with this exchange.

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:26 am 
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Quote:
I can't believe you've drawn me into debating abortion.


I don’t wish to debate it. I’m actually quite moderate on the social issues.

And wouldn’t really even disagree with your last post. Of course their are circumstances that dictate.

Just like I’m sure you’ll agree it’s a system often abused. And on the tax payers dime. Like always.

At some point a woman’s right to choose also needs to imply making better choices. Particularly the repeat offenders. Lots of free birth control out there.

And to the men as well.

But alas, I don’t wish to debate it.


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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:57 am 
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Ahhhh, yes. This is why no one should ever discuss politics in the workplace:
#1 Most people are so stupid and ignorant that they only embarrass themselves
#2 Everyone else is so stupid and ignorant that everyone thinks you're only embarrassing yourself

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:07 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
Ahhhh, yes. This is why no one should ever discuss politics in the workplace:
#1 Most people are so stupid and ignorant that they only embarrass themselves
#2 Everyone else is so stupid and ignorant that everyone thinks you're only embarrassing yourself


The opening lines of Descartes’ Discourse on Method are instructive here. :)

Quote:
Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for every one thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess. And in this it is not likely that all are mistaken the conviction is rather to be held as testifying that the power of judging aright and of distinguishing truth from error, which is properly what is called good sense or reason, is by nature equal in all men; and that the diversity of our opinions, consequently, does not arise from some being endowed with a larger share of reason than others, but solely from this, that we conduct our thoughts along different ways, and do not fix our attention on the same objects. For to be possessed of a vigorous mind is not enough; the prime requisite is rightly to apply it. The greatest minds, as they are capable of the highest excellences, are open likewise to the greatest aberrations; and those who travel very slowly may yet make far greater progress, provided they keep always to the straight road, than those who, while they run, forsake it.

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:47 am 
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This fucking thread. Jesus christ.

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:57 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
COR was actually making an important point.

People are predisposed to believe certain things...then unless they do a lot of work not to, they will seek out evidence that supports what they already believe. Disconfirming evidence will be ignored or be interpreted as confirming evidence.

Thus...there will be people who see Colin Kaepernick wearing a Che shirt and will believe he’s a commie socialist...just as there are those who will see white Catholic kids wearing MAGA hats and automatically assume they are racist.

They’ll look for confirming evidence for each of these beliefs, and disconfirming evidence will be ignored.

This is important to remember because it’s why people get sucked up in these stories like what happened at the Lincoln Memorial. The people who released the clip that made the kids look bad did it on purpose because they KNEW those who associate MAGA hats with racism would automatically interpret the actions the kids were taking as disrespectful and racist.

Even when seen in context of what actually happened, it took a while for those who were predisposed to view the MAGA kids unfavorably to change their opinions (and some haven’t yet).

Same thing...those who were offended at what CK did by protesting the flag will be predisposed to believe all sorts of negative things about Colin Kaepernick.


Exactly why cognitive dissonance is so hard for people

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:15 pm 
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44LetzRide wrote:
Steeledge wrote:
44LetzRide wrote:
I would be satisfied if police did not use deadly force on people when it is NOT warranted - especially when it's clear to see that people of color are most often the ones who end up dead. Deadly force is necessary sometimes - I recognize that. One of these "isolated" incidents is too many. Those of us who truly care about this country recognize that no matter what race, every life is equally important. I'm part of a long line of men who defended this country in the armed forces - personally served in the US Army. I'm a man who loves his country. With the smallest amount of objectivity, anyone can see the police brutality is disproportionate. What's even worse, is the consequences for those acts don't deter it.

So, you live in SC, right?
How close to Charlotte?
Remember Keith Lamont Scott?
Were you more "satisfied" by:
the riots that followed his death, resulting in senseless loss of life and billion$
...OR...
when irrefutable evidence was proffered that he DID have a gun, and that "deadly force", by an African American officer, was in fact merited?

...I'll wait...

...in the meantime, it's clear to me that we live in a society, fueled by feverish social media, that tends to jump the gun, overreact, and justify the committing heinous evil in response to what they "want to" believe is the whole story...

And I will also say that the knee-jerk mob mentality is much worse here in the good ole USA than anywhere else in the world, but hey, that's part of the cost of freedom, right?


In none of my posts do you see me advocate rioting or violence. I'm not familiar with the facts of the Keith Lamont case, so I won't comment about it directly. There are some white cops and some black cops who abuse their authority and do horrible things. Some of them make honest mistakes. And yes, some people jump to the wrong conclusion. But what matters? When people are dying by the hands of the people who should be protecting them, and lawmakers, citizens are slow to rectify that behavior, like it or not, it's a problem. So no, I am no more satisfied with rioting, looting, and vandalism in reaction to racist violence than I am with the unchecked police violence and apathetic attitudes toward correcting the problem.

You've already announced clearly who and what you are. Our exchange isn't going to persuade each other to see these issues differently. Black people have complained about and reported police brutality for decades, and so many people want to believe that these reports are untrue. They can't all be untrue. "Somehow, this violence must have been provoked" or "If he would have just done what the officer told him" are popular rationales for this behavior. Now we live in an age with video evidence readily available in a number of cases, and the response is the same - "well we don't know what happened before this person began recording" or "well they found weed on him or in his apartment". For those who care one iota, the fact that this happens is disturbing. It's preventable and solvable. Does police brutality and the use of deadly force happen? Yes. Does it happen disproportionately higher to unarmed black males? Yes. Are there likely some discrepancies in reporting? Yes-unless everybody and every process recording the data is perfect. There are parasitic members of the media who report for ALL political persuasions. Not just the "liberal" media.

I'm done with this exchange.

How do you know the answer to the question I've bolded is "Yes"?
Because they "have complained about and reported police brutality for decades"?!
Or, because folks on social media said it was so?!

Thank God for the body cams that officers are now being "encouraged" to lug around...
It's very revealing how, even in the early years of their use, they're telling a completely different story. Many careers and, more importantly, lives THAT MATTER AS MUCH AS ANY are being saved as a result.

Sure, video can be edited to show what you want it to show to all those "predisposed to believe what they want to believe", as is all too often the case over regular AND social media...
...Covington Catholic kids say "hi"...
...but if you're predisposed to believe that legitimate surveillance by government entities in order to protect ALL OF SOCIETY from the evil that people do is somehow "out to get you", then maybe it's a perspective thing, and not a shortcoming of that society just trying to do the best it can FOR ALL LIVES...

44LetzRide wrote:
You've already announced clearly who and what you are.

You seriously have no clue about any of that, my brother, but God bless you for trying anyway!
...even if only for a moment...

Good day to you!

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:35 pm 
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Are there really opponents of BLM too stupid to realize that the movement never implied nor endorses the idea that there are any lives that do not matter?

Regardless of your judgment about BLM, you’re just dumb if you take away from it that those in the movement think that only black lives matter or that all lives do not matter.

The whole idea of the BLM movement is that black lives are not mattering, while others are.

I guess it should have been branded Black Lives Matter, Too to save those from themselves who are too stupid to draw obvious inferences.

This post is not an endorsement. It’s made for the sake of clarity.

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:58 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
It’s made for the sake of clarity.
HA!!

That was funny. :lol: :lol:

Like clarity means anything anymore.

I know what you're thinking, and there is nothing you can say to change my mind!!

Hows this for clarity : America will be a minority white nation by 2045 - US Census Bureau.

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:52 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Are there really opponents of BLM too stupid to realize that the movement never implied nor endorses the idea that there are any lives that do not matter?

Regardless of your judgment about BLM, you’re just dumb if you take away from it that those in the movement think that only black lives matter or that all lives do not matter.

Oh really?
Tell that to the Hebrew Israelites.
If you've ever encountered a group of these maniacs on a city street corner, you've seen the face of race-based hatred at it's worst...
My own life-impacting experience happened over than 20 years ago, and by the accounts that no media outlets are publishing, they are only becoming more emboldened and more violently confrontational.
Still Lit wrote:
The whole idea of the BLM movement is that black lives are not mattering, while others are.

...wait, didn't you just say "the movement never implied nor endorses the idea that there are any lives that do not matter"??? :?
I think what has you and the movement tripping over yourselves is that they've adjudged all of certain segments of society as holding to some ignorant notion "that black lives are not mattering" to the individuals in their segment, and as a member of that target group, that offends me.
Still Lit wrote:
I guess it should have been branded Black Lives Matter, Too to save those from themselves who are too stupid to draw obvious inferences.

This post is not an endorsement. It’s made for the sake of clarity.

Clarity of double-speak...go figure...

Look, personally I've long believed that all lives matter and are equally important. I honestly can't say I've always felt that way, but fortunately I'm beginning to see through a glass darkly...
That's how it is in the eyes of our Maker, and that's what I will continue to focus my effort on catching a glimpse of.

So IMHO, this movement uses the prejudice of others to justify and perpetuate it's own prejudice - attempting to TELL ME what does and does not matter TO ME - and as such is not only offensive, but is altogether lost on me...

...and while I am a member of our society, I can only speak for myself, but I'm certain there are MANY among us who feel as I do.

As Sting said, "Men go crazy in congregations, they only get better one by one."

Peace to you, bros.

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:08 pm 
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Steeledge,

First, nowhere in my post do I endorse BLM. I wrote that but you decided to ignore it.

Second, you just equated a self titled group with another group with a different title and then proceded to pretend they are the same.

Third, if you want to undercut BLM, you don’t blather at them that all lives matter, which they already grant, you show that African American lives are in fact not less valued by police and institutions.

Fourth, try some brevity in your posts. That will expose some of your bullshit, but it will at least force you actually to articulate an argument.

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:11 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
I can't believe you've drawn me into debating abortion.
955876 wrote:
Full term is full term.

See here's the problem. Your mind is not open to all the possibilities.

I once heard a story of a woman who was pregnant and in her third term. The baby had no brain. It was DOA. Can't live without a brain. And, the pregnancy was threatening the woman's life. She would have died had the pregnancy been allowed to continue. So, she had a late term abortion, and I say that was entirely justified. There is concern that if abortion is outlawed that women in that situation would be made to carry the pregnancy to term and die. People are cheering because they believe women's lives are being saved by abortion being made legal.

As for the death penalty, I was once more in favor of the death penalty than I am now. I can remember before there was DNA testing. Then DNA testing made the scene, and they started to test guys on death row and found that some of them were innocent. I cannot help but wonder how many innocent people we've executed.

So I can think that abortion should be legal because sometimes it is justifiable and even the right thing to do. And I can be concerned about the death penalty because our legal system isn't perfect, and once you kill someone, there are no give backs. Not such a contradiction.


I looked for more info on the act and found an article by the New Yorker. Not exactly breitbart. Though they did use extreme and rare examples of children missing half a brain as to the need for allowing late term abortion, I didn't read anywhere that there are specific limiatations to the law. They did hint at at the doctor being able to refuse the procedure for some women but it seemed that was discretionary to the doc. I'd like to here the truth because on the outside looking in, it sounds fucking disgusting that they are celebrating such things like they would if the Giants won the Super Bowl.

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:47 pm 
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R S wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:
I can't believe you've drawn me into debating abortion.
955876 wrote:
Full term is full term.

See here's the problem. Your mind is not open to all the possibilities.

I once heard a story of a woman who was pregnant and in her third term. The baby had no brain. It was DOA. Can't live without a brain. And, the pregnancy was threatening the woman's life. She would have died had the pregnancy been allowed to continue. So, she had a late term abortion, and I say that was entirely justified. There is concern that if abortion is outlawed that women in that situation would be made to carry the pregnancy to term and die. People are cheering because they believe women's lives are being saved by abortion being made legal.

As for the death penalty, I was once more in favor of the death penalty than I am now. I can remember before there was DNA testing. Then DNA testing made the scene, and they started to test guys on death row and found that some of them were innocent. I cannot help but wonder how many innocent people we've executed.

So I can think that abortion should be legal because sometimes it is justifiable and even the right thing to do. And I can be concerned about the death penalty because our legal system isn't perfect, and once you kill someone, there are no give backs. Not such a contradiction.


I looked for more info on the act and found an article by the New Yorker. Not exactly breitbart. Though they did use extreme and rare examples of children missing half a brain as to the need for allowing late term abortion, I didn't read anywhere that there are specific limiatations to the law. They did hint at at the doctor being able to refuse the procedure for some women but it seemed that was discretionary to the doc. I'd like to here the truth because on the outside looking in, it sounds fucking disgusting that they are celebrating such things like they would if the Giants won the Super Bowl.

They're not celebrating the abortions themselves. Like I said, there can be horrible outcomes if abortion is not available, and now abortion will be available in NY regardless of the Supreme Court and THAT--the avoidance of the horrible outcomes without abortion--is what they're celebrating.

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:25 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
Steeledge,

:roll:
Still Lit wrote:
First, nowhere in my post do I endorse BLM. I wrote that but you decided to ignore it.

I never ignored that you said you didn't endorse it.
I just pointed out that you attempted to justify it with a weak and doublespoke argument.

Surprised one so obviously well educated would confuse one with the other, but I digress...
Still Lit wrote:
Second, you just equated a self titled group with another group with a different title and then proceded to pretend they are the same.

Black Israelites, Hebrew Israelites, Black Hebrew Israelites, African Hebrew Israelites...
They are all very closely and historically tied, and their "evangelism" nearly identical.
Surprised one so obviously well read missed that, but again I digress...
Still Lit wrote:
Third, if you want to undercut BLM, you don’t blather at them that all lives matter, which they already grant, you show that African American lives are in fact not less valued by police and institutions.

I personally know several state, county, and municipal police officers from varying and disparate racial backgrounds.
The current, near universal message they tell, the one that's endorsed, mandated, and closely regulated by the institutions for which they lay their lives on the line every day, is that all lives matter.
Yet folks championing BLM will contradict and shout over that message with their own incendiary calls...
Things like "Hands down, shoot back!" at city council meetings...
Messages that they're never held accountable for when others hear and respond to instead of the messages coming from the institutions you speak of, because trying to hold such messengers accountable would be political suicide...
But when others hear that counter-message and take it the next step and commit heinous evil against honest men and women just trying to do their job, it becomes a tragic lose-lose situation...
...a situation that occurs way too frequently in modern society...

What could I possibly do to "show that African American lives are in fact not less valued by police and institutions" when the BLM crowd will only shout over, contradict, and refuse to hear the current messages coming directly from those institutions?!

Maybe post my feelings in a related thread in a public forum?

Alas, as has been pointed out ad nauseum, people will hear what they want to hear and believe what they want to believe...
Still Lit wrote:
Fourth, try some brevity in your posts. That will expose some of your bullshit, but it will at least force you actually to articulate an argument.

Patronizing condescension from one so obviously well read and educated should be surprising, but surprisingly it's not...

Again, I digress...

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Last edited by Steeledge on Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: In Other News: Gladys Knight to sing Anthem for SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:30 am 
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Poltargyst wrote:
They're not celebrating the abortions themselves. Like I said, there can be horrible outcomes if abortion is not available, and now abortion will be available in NY regardless of the Supreme Court and THAT--the avoidance of the horrible outcomes without abortion--is what they're celebrating.


That didn't answer my question. Would you agree that a horrible outcome would also include a perfectly healthy fetus being killed at 7-8-9 months of pregnancy?

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