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 Post subject: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:50 am 
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...it was a good signing, a good hire.

Yes, everybody wants a cleaning of the house, everybody fired, etc. but we all knew that wasn't going to happen.

On to Austin.

He was with Seattle from 2003-2006 as their Defensive Backs coach. He was provided high draft picks right off the bat, he had CB Marcus Trufant and S Ken Hamlin drafted 1 and 2 in 2003. They were playing well by their 2nd season, Trufant had 5 INTs for 141 yards, 1 sack and 96 tackles in 2004, Hamlin had 4 INTs for 48 yards, 2 sacks and 80 tackles in 2004. When Austin left for Arizona in 2007, Trufant finally went to the Pro Bowl in 2007. Hamlin would leave in free agency and go to Dallas and he made the Pro Bowl in 2007 too. So, Austin starts in Seattle in 2003, Trufant and Hamlin are drafted in the first and second rounds in 2003 and then in 2007 both are playing in the Pro Bowl. Surely that is a positive, no??

Not to be outdone with just those two, Austin had Shawn Springs leave for Free agency and he was able to get a 2nd round pick from 2001, Ken Lucas to take over Springs starting job in 2004 and he has 6 INTs, 1 TD, 21 passes defensed, 2 fumble recoveries, 1 forced fumble and 70 tackles.

Austin gets SS Michael Boulware in the 2nd round of 2004 and Boulware proceeds to have 5 INTs and 1 TD his rookie year and 4 INTs in his second year. Amazing that his pupils, his players all seem to be around the ball, so many INTs, again isn't that a positive, isn't that what we want from our secondary? What has been missing from our secondary?? Ballhawking playmakers that know how to get INTs???

In Arizona he was the defensive backs coach from 2007 to 2009, so how did his pupils, his players perform???

Well, Roderick Hood was really meh as a player his previous 4 seasons with Philly. In 2007 Austin is hired to be the Defensive Backs coach and Hood is signed. Hood then has a career year, 5 INTs for 196 yards, and 2 TDs with 21 passes defensed and he starts all 16 games. Holy crap, imagine if Teryl Austin can somehow get Artie Burns to get his head out of his ass and become a legitimate player!!

So who else did he coach in Arizona?? S Adrian Wilson was already established but CB Antrell Rolle was a first rounder from 2005 who hadn't really taken off yet. In 2007 with Austin as his coach he exploded. 5 INTs, returned for 231 yards and 3 TDs, Rolle would later become a FS the next season and make the Pro Bowl in Austin's last year with the team (2009). In those 3 seasons with Austin as his defensive backs coach Rolle would have 10 INTs, return 4 for TDs and have 23 passes defensed.

Okay this is getting ridiculous, Austin was given another 1st rounder, this time Dominque Rodgers-Cromartie in 2008. DRC has 4 INTs for 157 yards and 1 TD with 19 passes defensed in 2008 and then follows that up with a Pro Bowl season in 2009 with 6 INTs for 77 yards, 1 TD and 25 passes defensed.

For those still reading this, Teryl Austin coached Marcus Trufant and Ken Hamlin in their formative years and they made the Pro Bowl the year after he left for Arizona. Then with Austin in Arizona he has Antrell Rolle and DRC both make the Pro Bowl and Roderick Hood have a career year in 2007.

Austin spends a year as a DC with the Florida Gators in 2010.

He is back in the NFL and with the Baltimore Ravens from 2011-2013.

What did he have to work with in the secondary?? What high draft picks were floundering? Were underachieving?? Lardarius Webb was a 3rd round pick in 2009 but really wasn't that impressive his first two years, 2 INTs and 15 passes defensed, just meh as a player. But when Austin came to town in 2011? All he had to do is coach him up and Webb responded.

Webb had 5 INTs for 81 yards and 1 TD and had 20 passes defensed. He had 2 fumble recoveries and 1 forced fumble, he had 1 sack and 74 tackles and started 15 games that year. He had only started 4 games the previous two seasons. Damn, is Austin a secondary whisperer???

Can Austin come in to Pittsburgh and get Artie Burns and Sean Davis and Terrell Edumunds and Cam Sutton and hell, even Coty Sensabaugh to up their games and play like ballhawks and Pro Bowlers???

Cary Williams was a CB that Austin was able to make a 48 game starter under his watch and he had 7 INTs and 47 passes defensed. His best season was in 2012 when he had 4 INTs for 90 yards, 1 TD and 17 passes defensed.

Austin did get CB Jimmy Smith in round 1 of 2011 and while he wasn't a disappointment by any stretch, his impact wasn't as strong because of his nagging injuries which continue to this day.

Corey Graham was a CB/S who came in from Chicago and in his two seasons with Austin as his coach he started 13 games and had 6 INTs and 20 passes defensed.

S James Ihedigbo would become a starter in Austin's last season as the D-Backs coach in Baltimore. Ihedigbo would start all 16 games in 2013 and he had 3 INTs for 54 yards and 11 passes defensed, he had 1 forced fumble and 2 fumble recoveries, and 101 tackles.


Austin then becomes the Defensive Coordinator for Detroit in 2014. He brings James Ihedigbo with him and James starts 13 games and has 4 INTs for 86 yards, 8 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recovery, 2 sacks and 80 tackles.

Austin inherited some quality players, Glover Quinn for example was his FS and he came to Detroit the year before in 2013. He has 3 INTs in his first year as a Lion. But now with Austin as his coach, as his DC, with Teryl's patent pending magical pixie dust to make defensive backs play great and become ball magnets???

Glover Quinn who in his previous 5 season only had 8 INTs, in 2014, his first with Austin as his DC, has 7 INTs for 117 yards and 10 passes defensed!!! Quinn makes the Pro Bowl, of course. Gee, how many players is that under Teryl's guidance now? Under each stop, Seattle, Arizona, Baltimore and now Detroit, the secondary improves and players realize their potential and interceptions are plentiful.

Darius Slay was also a player that Austin inherited, he was a 2nd round pick in 2013. His rookie year was nothing to write home about, no INTs, 5 passes defensed, only started 4 games. But the next year, his first year with Austin as his DC, Slay starts all 16 games and has 2 INTs and 17 passes defensed. In 2017 Slay has 8 INTs, 27 passes defensed and makes the Pro Bowl, yet another Austin coached defensive back making the Pro Bowl and having gaudy, eye popping INT numbers.

Austin got Quandre Diggs as a 6th rounder in 2015 and all Diggs has done the past two seasons is have 6 INTs, 1 TD and be one of the best nickel backs in the NFL. He is really a more heavy Mike Hilton but sometime they will use him as a safety, a nickel safety, etc, sometimes he would line up in the slot.

This is waaaay long now, but I think I have given quite a bit to chew on. It does seem like Austin has an outstanding track record of getting defensive backs to play well and to play well early. He seemed to have knack for jump starting high draft picks that were flatlining or just stuck in neutral. It sure seemed like he was able to get not only high draft picks but also low round picks and free agents to play well. And even an established pro like Glover Quinn was able to break through and take his game to the next level.

So, I like the hire and you should too, man has a proven track record and if he can get our high draft picks to emerge and elevate their games to the next level?? This could be a Mike Munchak type of hire for the secondary that we all have been craving.

Also, this is sort of a stealthy move in that Rooney has a former defensive coordinator with 5 years of experience under his belt. I discount his time in Cincy this year, that team is a true dumpster fire and there were many key injuries and turmoil that made it a bad situation for him. A year from now if Butler/Tomlin do not fix this defense and we miss the playoffs again, Austin may very well be kept and promoted if Rooney gives Tomlin the boot after 2019.

I don't consider the Bradley hire to be worthless, I did see improvement in the secondary this season but he did come from college and had little experience with the Pro game after all. Anyway, those are my thoughts.

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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:03 am 
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Scunge, thanks for bringing some hope in a sea of morass.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:23 am 
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Your posts are always well done. Thank you for taking the time.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:25 am 
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Hey, all I can do is try! :D

There is sort of a caveat though in that all of these defenses that he coached and developed these players what defense did they play??? :roll:

Hmmmm.

Seattle? That was a 4-3.

Arizona?? That was a 4-3.

Ravens??? Yes, that was a 3-4 but the manner in which the Ravens play a 3-4 is different than what we have done. People can spin it all they want but it is true.

Detroit?? That was a 4-3.

Playing a 4-3 or a Wade Phillips 3-4 with more man coverage and eschewing the Dick LeBeau zone bullshit does wonders for creating turnovers/INTs.

I just don't see any way around it, the scheme has to change. INTs and turnovers are not going to happen with our old 3-4 defense. Many of you want to keep the 3-4 and hey, I would be all for that if we strip out this tackle the catch, passive zone defense and replace it with more man to man coverage and more aggressive coverage overall. What we do is pathetic.

Austin could have Antrell Rolle, Marcus Trufant, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Darius Slay, Glover Quinn, along with Joe Haden and it wouldn't make one damn bit of difference if we continue to trott out this damn Dick LeBeau defense and its outdated scheme.

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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:35 am 
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Love it Scunge!

Thanks as always for such insight.

BRing on the 4-3!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:58 am 
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Scunge wrote:
Playing a 4-3 or a Wade Phillips 3-4 with more man coverage and eschewing the Dick LeBeau zone bullshit does wonders for creating turnovers/INTs.

I just don't see any way around it, the scheme has to change. INTs and turnovers are not going to happen with our old 3-4 defense. Many of you want to keep the 3-4 and hey, I would be all for that if we strip out this tackle the catch, passive zone defense and replace it with more man to man coverage and more aggressive coverage overall. What we do is pathetic.

Austin could have Antrell Rolle, Marcus Trufant, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Darius Slay, Glover Quinn, along with Joe Haden and it wouldn't make one damn bit of difference if we continue to trott out this damn Dick LeBeau defense and its outdated scheme.

This cannot be stated enough. The scheme is stale and predictable. How many times have we heard an opponent talk on how the Steelers are doing the same things they did 10-15 years ago. Another example of their fear and stubbornness to change. “We do what we do.”
I think we would all be surprised at how much better some of these “shitty” defenders we have would look under a more aggressive, modern approach.
Once again, Scunge bringing the heat.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:02 pm 
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Good write up Scrunge. This year is a bad outlier due to the entire defense issue with Cincy and their above average injury issue.

He'll still have to prove it to this team even with his stellar results as you listed.

I'm gonna be Missouri anyway!!

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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:07 pm 
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For me the difference between our defense and the Raven's defense is what transpired at the end of the Cleveland/Ravens game.

You all know what happened, the Ravens sent the house at Baker and had tight coverage. They did that 4 plays in a row. When has this team ever had the nerve, the balls to do that?? Even if we somehow draft and develop a truly outstanding trio of CBs will they allow them to play like the Ravens play their CBs, or how Denver plays their CBs? Probably not, because that is not what we do, we still at the end of the day cling to this Dick LeBeau defense and all of it's trappings and failings.

Man Coverage has to become more important, and putting players into positions to succeed and make plays on the ball, to make INTs, to get turnovers has to become more important.

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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:38 pm 
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Always love your work. Thanks for taking the time.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:50 pm 
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Thanks- I was focusing on "what has he done lately" and what he did at Cincy was garbage- but maybe they didn't have the players.

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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:58 pm 
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You've got me convinced this is a good move, scunge. Thanks for your work.

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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:02 pm 
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The maddening part about this rigidity to not change scheme is that it’s not even Tomlin’s scheme.

He came here as a 4-3 guy.

I understand a green HC allowing a legend like Lebeau the freedom to do what he does.

Lebeau is gone. Don’t see why they can’t change it up.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:06 pm 
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955876 wrote:
The maddening part about this rigidity to not change scheme is that it’s not even Tomlin’s scheme.

He came here as a 4-3 guy.

I understand a green HC allowing a legend like Lebeau the freedom to do what he does.

Lebeau is gone. Don’t see why they can’t change it up.


Colbert?

And the insular North Catholic-connected scouting organization?

Remember- we've had the 3-4 for ~35 years and the zone blitz concepts for about 25 years now.

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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:15 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
955876 wrote:
The maddening part about this rigidity to not change scheme is that it’s not even Tomlin’s scheme.

He came here as a 4-3 guy.

I understand a green HC allowing a legend like Lebeau the freedom to do what he does.

Lebeau is gone. Don’t see why they can’t change it up.


Colbert?

And the insular North Catholic-connected scouting organization?

Remember- we've had the 3-4 for ~35 years and the zone blitz concepts for about 25 years now.

So the correct answer is...A2.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:21 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
955876 wrote:
The maddening part about this rigidity to not change scheme is that it’s not even Tomlin’s scheme.

He came here as a 4-3 guy.

I understand a green HC allowing a legend like Lebeau the freedom to do what he does.

Lebeau is gone. Don’t see why they can’t change it up.


Colbert?

And the insular North Catholic-connected scouting organization?

Remember- we've had the 3-4 for ~35 years and the zone blitz concepts for about 25 years now.

So the correct answer is...A2.


Maybe groupthink?

Don't know if there's anyone on there that does "failure mode analysis".

I'd have a guy in the braintrust whose sole job it would be to think about a decision they were going to make and come up with all the ways it could go wrong.

So they could either make the same decision but know how to mitigate the failure modes...or else change the decision up.

It was rumored FDR did that. Was rumored that whenever a major decision was to be discussed, he pull one of his advisors aside and tell him "No matter what, argue in favor of the decision" and tell another advisor "No matter what, argue against the decision". That way, all points of view would be discussed, and groupthink be avoided.

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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:36 pm 
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Thanks for your research Scunge... we seemed to be all focusing on Austin's recent failure as DC. Perhaps all the Bengals injuries played a role in that?

Would be great if we had another "buy low" coach coming off a recent failure that turns around one of the team's poorest performing units...the other being Munchak.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:43 pm 
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Thanks for the hope but not much confidence in the team getting the players here


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:53 pm 
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steelmann58 wrote:
Thanks for the hope but not much confidence in the team getting the players here


Maybe they do in the secondary and haven't been coached up enough or maybe Tomlin tries to input more than we see which could be causing conflicting messages w/ Butler and Bradley.

I do know that it seems that all of our DBs not named Hayden have regressed in their play in one way or another. Maybe a good quality DB coach to go along w/ Bradley might be the need key.

Great writeup on him Scunge. Thanks indeed for that info.

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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm 
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I am not sure we have the coaches for that but I think playmaker are needed


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:34 pm 
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steelmann58 wrote:
I am not sure we have the coaches for that but I think playmaker are needed


I definitely agree with you on that.

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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:46 am 
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Lets don't get our hopes up, many thought Bradley was going to improve our DBs after Lake left.
Hell no improvement!


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:47 am 
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I wouldn't say no improvement CASTEELER. I think Bradley is getting a bit of unfair criticism for circumstances not really under his control.

They signed Morgan Burnett in hopes that he would be the starter and Edmunds could slowly be eased in. Instead, Edmunds starts 15 games as the SS. So Bradley had to prepare and coach up a rookie SS. Then Artie Burns decides to really regress, and many might argue, well Bradley is to blame of course!! But Burns was regressing in 2017, in 2017 he was already starting to shy away from contact, was already proclaiming that he had CTE (concussions). Bradley was not coaching him in 2017, so he inherited this nutcase who is mentally weak and technique challenged and really just not a smart player, a bit of a hot head who can be goaded into stupid penalties.

On top of all of that, Bradley had to take Sean Davis and coach him in a new position FS. Personally, I think Sean Davis did pretty well in his 3rd season. Many were critical of his ability to be a sound tackler, were worried that he would allow long touchdown runs or catches. I was really impressed with his ability to make open field tackles, to not be trucked, or juked by like he had his first two seasons. There was significant improvement. Now yeah, Davis did not come through with INTs or big plays but with the new position change maybe that will just take time.

Joe Haden to me really seemed to return to form. I noticed that he was much more forceful and committed to tackling, and playing the run. In 11 games in 2017 he had just 20 tackles. This season he played in 15 games and had 63 tackles. He was more fundamentally sound in doing form tackles. In coverage I saw him improving and again, playing like he did in his Pro Bowl seasons of 4 years ago. I thought the refs did him an incredible disservice at times when he was called for penalties that were just flat out wrong.

Coty Sensabaugh. When Burns went into the tank, Coty may have had one of his best years as a pro. No, I do not think Coty is somebody you want starting but man, he started 10 games this year and Bradley did what he could. When a first round CB goes south on you and you can take a Coty Sensabaugh and coach him up to tread water, well that is actually a pretty good coaching job.

I will say this too, when you look at how many defensive backs that we carry, what is it, 10?? And then think of how many CBs or Safeties that you may carry on your practice squad, so, two more???

One defensive backs coach, Tom Bradley is going to be able to single handedly coach up 12 players???

You look at other position coaches, Jerry Olsavsky our ILB coach only had to worry about what, 5 players???

Joey Porter only had to worry about what, 4 OLBs???

Daniels our TE coach only has to worry about 4 TEs???

And when the Steelers are working on their sub package defenses, how much you want to bet that Bradley had to coach and teach techniques and fundamentals to say LJ Fort, to Matthew Thomas, to OLBs???

That is too much for one position coach, for one secondary coach. It is idiotic that the Steelers took this long to have more than one coach for the secondary. Didn't use to be that way, I remember under Cowher that he had Ray Horton as an assistant defensive backs coach to Darren Perry. We had 2 coaches for the secondary back then, this is just a back to the future move to me in hiring Austin.

They need to do the same on offense and give Fitchner a damn QB position coach too. This isn't rocket science, this isn't hard to figure out, even Munchak has Sarrett helping him out with the offensive line.

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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:34 pm 
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Well Scunge, tell Art II to pony up more budget for position coaches because Tomlin is now having himself and Butler do two jobs.

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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:19 pm 
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its stupid to hire your coaches handle two positions. BTW if many blamed Lake but want to give Bradley a pass is wrong as lake really had nothing to work with . IMO FO get playmakers on D in FA and draft


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Teryl Austin...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:32 pm 
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Scunge, OUTSTANDING breakdown as usual. Hard to argue any of it. Wait and see mode.

My first question is, When do they finally hire a QB and RB coach? My second question is, Evidently, Danny Smith is going to maintain employment as ST's coach. Any idea when this hack's contract is up? Apparently that's when this hack is dismissed so the Steelers can keep their not fired a coach in eons record valid. :roll:


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