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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:59 pm 
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I don't have the stats either Van but I agree with you. I think Brown has lost a step, that his quickness is not quite what it was. I do know one stat, his catch percentage has been decreasing every year for the past 5 years, and that it was the 2nd lowest of his career for 2018. 5 years ago Brown caught over 71% of the passes threw to him, this past season that number was down to 61.9%.

JuJu was at 66.9%. You look at other elite WRs:

DeAndre Hopkins was at 70.6%
Keenan Allen was at 71.3%
Julio Jones was at 66.5%
Adam Thielen was at 73.9%
Michael Thomas was at 85%

And Brown was at 61.9% ????

The Steelers, both Randy and Ben knew that they had to diversify this offense because the Antonio Brown show is slowing down. The massive amount of targets are providing diminishing returns. Yes, Brown had way more TDs this season but I believe that is a natural by product of having a diverse offense.

I fully expect that catch percentage to drop into the high 50s next season if he were on the team. And I expect him to maybe have 80-85 catches. Is that going to make Brown happy you think? Does anybody think that Brown will not be bitching and pouting next season, that we won't be in the same situation again?

In terms of JuJu, I am so tired of fans wanting to put a label on him. He is this or he is that, he is merely a #2 WR, could never be a #1. He would never be able to be a deep threat, would never see any long TD passes to him, he simply doesn't have the speed I am told. All of that was bullshit.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the kid has no limit, can be as good as he wants to be as long as he stays humble and works on his craft. I made this comparison a lot, that JuJu reminds me of DeAndre Hopkins and Michael Thomas. Many get caught up in numbers, combine measurements, physical traits, and can't see the forest for the trees.

Not having Brown next season might mean that JuJu and Washington and a shiny new 2nd round pick WR all play well together as a group that ends up being a net positive. Not having Brown next season might mean that Vance McDonald has a Pro Bowl type season as he has say 75 catches for over 1,000 yard and 10 TDs. Not having Brown might mean that we finally do have a two back attack and that Conner and Samuels thrive and Samuels in particular excels in the passing game. Not having Brown might mean Ben throws 6-8 less INTs per season.

I don't see it as a negative that Brown is off this team. Especially if we get say a top 10 pick and maybe a 2nd round pick or a 3rd round pick. If Brown brings an ILB and say a CB that improves the defense?? How is that negative??

I just see Brown being dealt a golden opportunity to improve this team in many ways and to heal this team and right the ship. To finally return to a championship culture.

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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:04 pm 
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I'm not afraid to move on from AB... IF... we have enough guys to get separation and make plays in the passing game.

AB is a nutjob. The problem is, his brand of nutjob hurts the team.


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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:17 pm 
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Rooney sent a message to Brown's agent today. Tell your idiot client that his Steelers career is over unless he dramatically changes. Good for Rooney. Trade his a** ASAP. He is 30, and idiots don't change their spots.


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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:22 pm 
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VanWilder wrote:
Am I the only one that thought Brown lost a half step this year? You could normally rely on his ability to make the first guy miss. He appeared to go down when in space fairly quickly. I'm curious to see his YAC this year compared with previous seasons.


Brown has almost always been neutralized by double coverage. If his quickness does not get him open, he does not have the physical toolset to "get the ball" like Julio Jones.
Ben needed to learn not to keep forcing the ball to AB. I'll bet 1/2 of Ben's INTs were forcing the ball to Brown.

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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:30 pm 
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????


https://twitter.com/AB84/status/1083489 ... 64128?s=01

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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:34 pm 
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RooneyTunes wrote:


That suit....Jesus....

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We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:37 pm 
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Havoc, one other stat that has been bothering me the past couple seasons with Brown is that he really has a lower first down percentage than other WRs. What does that mean? Well, how many of his catches are going for first downs?? Moving the chains, etc.

I look around and see that many of the great WRs, many of the very good WRs all have first down percentages in the 70s, even 80%.

Mike Evans and Kenny Golladay were at 80%.
The Rams Robert Woods as at 77%
Alston Jeffrey and Amari Cooper were at 74%
Julio Jones and Hopkins and Tyler Boyd, Brandin Cooks they were all between 70-72%

Where was Antonion Brown on this list for first down percentage??

Brown was all the way down at 60.6%

So, Ben was completing 61.9% of his passing attempts to Brown and only 60.6% of those passes resulted in first downs. And then look at all of the INTs that Ben threw trying to fit passes into Brown. How many INTs? 7,8? That is a special connection, really??

There are a lot of QB/WR combos out there where they are completing 70-75% of their passes and those completed passes are going for first downs 70% of the time and yet the Ben to Brown connection is special??

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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:42 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
RooneyTunes wrote:


That suit....Jesus....


I dig the suit. It has a Von Dutch/Ed Hardy look to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:43 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Steelers are a MUCH worse team without Antonio Brown. It's that fuckin' simple.


I don't think we know that for sure. If you're using the Bungles game as evidence, much of the offensive turmoil was BECAUSE OF Antonio Brown.


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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:45 pm 
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RooneyTunes wrote:


Damn I hate this passive aggressive "protect my ego" shit.

That's Antonio letting Art II know the message was received and understood (although it DOESN'T mean AB is gonna behave himself if given another chance).

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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:45 pm 
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Ice wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Steelers are a MUCH worse team without Antonio Brown. It's that fuckin' simple.


I don't think we know that for sure. If you're using the Bungles game as evidence, much of the offensive turmoil was BECAUSE OF Antonio Brown.


If I trusted Mike Tomlin to oversee the rebuild, I'd be much more inclined to take the risk of letting AB go.

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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:49 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Aditi is right about one thing: AB and Ben are a match made in heaven on the field. Drew Rosenhaus knows this, Ben knows this, AB sure as shit knows this, Rooney knows this, Tomlin knows this, Colbert knows this. Everybody knows this.

Leaving is a no-win situation for anybody. If the Cards offer you Pat Peterson and the #1 pick, I guess you'd take the deal but nobody is going to end up happy except for maybe Peterson.



As much as i dont want AB to leave, JujU would become the new shiny toy. Its all about Ben when it comes to his Wrs.

JuJu is a much better #2 than a #1. Great player but I'd be concerned about heading into a season with JuJu, Washington, Rogers, & Switzer as your top 4.


Yeah, because the Steelers wouldn't draft another receiver high to add to that group (and probably sign a vet to strengthen the receiving corps even more).

C'mon.

It needs to be said, again, that if AB is to return to the Steelers, they need to have a come to Jesus talk with him.

Not about him going AWOL. Nope. The talk needs to be about his selfishness on the field, on the sidelines, in the locker room, on social media, you name it.

Ben threw several of his INT's trying to force balls to an often BLANKETED Antonio Brown. Watch the last play of the Denver game if you don't believe me.

No question Ben forced balls to AB to shut him the fuck up. To make him happy. To keep him from being a distraction. If AB is going to continue to be a distraction, the Steelers NO DOUBT are better off without him.

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Last edited by KC on Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:52 pm 
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I still think there is a money aspect to this as well.

Brown is probably upset that he is making so much less money then other WRs.

Don't give me that per season crap, all Brown is looking at is that OBJ signed for $95 million, or that Evans signed for $82 million, or that cooks signed for $80 million, meanwhile poor Antonio had to settle for $68!!

I bet this is a ploy to get more money out of the Steelers and if traded to get more money out of his new team too.

I think any trade will be contingent upon Brown getting paid more, getting a new contract.

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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:55 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Steelers are a MUCH worse team without Antonio Brown. It's that fuckin' simple.


Not the Antonio Brown ignoring his coaches and teammates. Not the ego driven Antonio Brown who is constantly bitching to Roethlisberger about his targets and how they aren't enough.

Not the AB that was ALMOST CERTAINLY jealous as fuck about Juju winning team MVP. Not the Antonio Brown who has become more about Antonio Brown being marketed than winning football games.

If we trade AB for a nice haul, I'll bet you see Ben have an outstanding year and we return to the playoffs.

Why? No more forcing throws to a blanketed AB and much more spreading it around.

The AB we currently have....well, I'm not at all surprised this team is dysfunctional as fuck.

Tomlin, as much as I loathe the piece of shit, is still our coach. He needs to take back FULL CONTROL of this team and if that means jettisoning AB and his massive ego, I'm ALL FOR IT.

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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:59 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
VanWilder wrote:
Am I the only one that thought Brown lost a half step this year? You could normally rely on his ability to make the first guy miss. He appeared to go down when in space fairly quickly. I'm curious to see his YAC this year compared with previous seasons.


Brown has almost always been neutralized by double coverage. If his quickness does not get him open, he does not have the physical toolset to "get the ball" like Julio Jones.
Ben needed to learn not to keep forcing the ball to AB. I'll bet 1/2 of Ben's INTs were forcing the ball to Brown.


Agree with all of that. If his quickness is declining, I'd be inclined to move him while he has value.

And Swiss, I wouldn't be suggesting a trade if the return wasn't great. 2014-2016 Brown is untradeable. This version is a distraction with declining skills.

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Last edited by VanWilder on Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:59 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
They better not fuck this up.

That’s my concern


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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:07 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
They better not fuck this up.

That’s my concern


Mine as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:09 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Ice wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Steelers are a MUCH worse team without Antonio Brown. It's that fuckin' simple.


I don't think we know that for sure. If you're using the Bungles game as evidence, much of the offensive turmoil was BECAUSE OF Antonio Brown.


If I trusted Mike Tomlin to oversee the rebuild, I'd be much more inclined to take the risk of letting AB go.


I think you keep pretty much the same personnel, allow Ben to spread it around, which is when he's at his very best, and see what happens. I'm willing to bet we'll be fine. Wouldn't mind adding Parris Campbell in the draft, per STD, because he's a huge character guy and a speedy mother who's made some tremendous catches for my Bucks. We'll be good, maybe better.

On offense, at least, no need for a rebuild.


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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:11 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
RooneyTunes wrote:


Damn I hate this passive aggressive "protect my ego" shit.

That's Antonio letting Art II know the message was received and understood (although it DOESN'T mean AB is gonna behave himself if given another chance).

I don’t see it that way. I think it’s AB responding to A2s stating that he can’t see AB remaining a Steeler. Business is booming...we’ve got a deal. He wants out.


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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:26 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
RooneyTunes wrote:


That suit....Jesus....


Horrid.

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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:27 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
RooneyTunes wrote:


Damn I hate this passive aggressive "protect my ego" shit.

That's Antonio letting Art II know the message was received and understood (although it DOESN'T mean AB is gonna behave himself if given another chance).

I don’t see it that way. I think it’s AB responding to A2s stating that he can’t see AB remaining a Steeler. Business is booming...we’ve got a deal. He wants out.

Interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:28 pm 
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KC wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Steelers are a MUCH worse team without Antonio Brown. It's that fuckin' simple.


Not the Antonio Brown ignoring his coaches and teammates. Not the ego driven Antonio Brown who is constantly bitching to Roethlisberger about his targets and how they aren't enough.

Not the AB that was ALMOST CERTAINLY jealous as fuck about Juju winning team MVP. Not the Antonio Brown who has become more about Antonio Brown being marketed than winning football games.

If we trade AB for a nice haul, I'll bet you see Ben have an outstanding year and we return to the playoffs.

Why? No more forcing throws to a blanketed AB and much more spreading it around.

The AB we currently have....well, I'm not at all surprised this team is dysfunctional as fuck.

Tomlin, as much as I loathe the piece of shit, is still our coach. He needs to take back FULL CONTROL of this team and if that means jettisoning AB and his massive ego, I'm ALL FOR IT.

It's the Leveon Bell debate all over again.

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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:33 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
RooneyTunes wrote:


Damn I hate this passive aggressive "protect my ego" shit.

That's Antonio letting Art II know the message was received and understood (although it DOESN'T mean AB is gonna behave himself if given another chance).

I don’t see it that way. I think it’s AB responding to A2s stating that he can’t see AB remaining a Steeler. Business is booming...we’ve got a deal. He wants out.


Yes- it could be seen as that as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:38 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
RooneyTunes wrote:


That suit....Jesus....


I’d trade his ass just for the ridiculous looking suit alone.

And I’m a suit wearin guy.


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 Post subject: Re: Art II speaks...all but shoves AB out the door
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:52 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
RooneyTunes wrote:


Damn I hate this passive aggressive "protect my ego" shit.

That's Antonio letting Art II know the message was received and understood (although it DOESN'T mean AB is gonna behave himself if given another chance).

I don’t see it that way. I think it’s AB responding to A2s stating that he can’t see AB remaining a Steeler. Business is booming...we’ve got a deal. He wants out.


Hard to know what he meant from a short unconcise tweet but if I had to go one way or the other at this point I’d lean toward not seeing that way as well Jobus.

I took it as...

Art2: Considering all options. Won’t release him but also don’t foresee him in camp at this point.

AB: Good. Business (as in AB business) be boomin.

Who the fuck knows however. Evident AB is not the brightest of bulbs.


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