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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:05 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
Madden is right. Tomlin needs to go for the sole fact that he can’t fix this.

The Enabler can’t be the Fixer.

This can be salvaged...but not by Mike.

He’s part of the problem.


no new coach is going to fix Ben. He is not a team leader and never has been. Hiring BB would not change what Ben is now.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:11 am 
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jebrick wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
Madden is right. Tomlin needs to go for the sole fact that he can’t fix this.

The Enabler can’t be the Fixer.

This can be salvaged...but not by Mike.

He’s part of the problem.


no new coach is going to fix Ben. He is not a team leader and never has been. Hiring BB would not change what Ben is now.


I didn’t say “fix Ben”.

I said “fix the locker room...fix the culture”.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:17 am 
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I don't think Ben needs to be fixed.

Outside of going on the vacation, which was a stupid time to do that, nothing else he did was anything close to troubling.

I LOVE that he came down on James Washington for playing like shit.

I have no problem with him saying he was disappointed in Bell or demanding Antonio Brown run more routes if he thought things weren't clicking.

Ben is a future Hall of Fame QB. He SHOULD speak up. You don't think Brady hammers teammates when they deserve it?

Brady yells and screams at his OC all of the fucking time, in the middle of games.

Ben Roethlisberger's biggest problem was being Antonio Brown's enabler, right along with Tomlin. If Brown stays, Ben needs to flat-out tell him; "In the past, I've forced passes to you just to keep you happy. To keep you from being a distraction. No more of that shit ever again. Run your route, come back to the huddle and shut the fuck up."

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:22 am 
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KC wrote:
I don't think Ben needs to be fixed.

Outside of going on the vacation, which was a stupid time to do that, nothing else he did was anything close to troubling.

I LOVE that he came down on James Washington for playing like shit.

I have no problem with him saying he was disappointed in Bell or demanding Antonio Brown run more routes if he thought things weren't clicking.

Ben is a future Hall of Fame QB. He SHOULD speak up. You don't think Brady hammers teammates when they deserve it?

Brady yells and screams at his OC all of the fucking time, in the middle of games.

Ben Roethlisberger's biggest problem was being Antonio Brown's enabler, right along with Tomlin. If Brown stays, Ben needs to flat-out tell him; "In the past, I've forced passes to you just to keep you happy. To keep you from being a distraction. No more of that shit ever again. Run your route, come back to the huddle and shut the fuck up."


Fair enough. But how much commitment to the team do you project when you decide to schedule a vacation during an OTA.
He has the right, but c'mon - you are the playing leader of the whole team. You couldn't schedule the vacation at another time?
BS


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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:49 am 
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KC wrote:
I don't think Ben needs to be fixed.

Outside of going on the vacation, which was a stupid time to do that, nothing else he did was anything close to troubling.

I LOVE that he came down on James Washington for playing like shit.

I have no problem with him saying he was disappointed in Bell or demanding Antonio Brown run more routes if he thought things weren't clicking.

Ben is a future Hall of Fame QB. He SHOULD speak up. You don't think Brady hammers teammates when they deserve it?

Brady yells and screams at his OC all of the fucking time, in the middle of games.

Ben Roethlisberger's biggest problem was being Antonio Brown's enabler, right along with Tomlin. If Brown stays, Ben needs to flat-out tell him; "In the past, I've forced passes to you just to keep you happy. To keep you from being a distraction. No more of that shit ever again. Run your route, come back to the huddle and shut the fuck up."


Up to the point where he does it on his radio show. Do that stuff in house.

I don’t need to see or hear Ben talking about teammates in any way on his radio show.

In fact, he shouldn’t do the radio show.

There are tangible steps Ben could take to show he’s committed to winning.

*Show up for EVERY practice...enough with the “vet days off”. Yeah results-wise, maybe an extra day a week doesn’t matter much, but the message it sends could pay dividends elsewhere.

*Get off the radio...what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas

*Don’t pooh pooh your interceptions whether or not they were a “big deal” in game or not. Clean that shit up whether the pick was your fault or not.

*Get situationally smart

Do those things...that shows loads more leadership, in my book.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:51 am 
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steelheels wrote:
KC wrote:
I don't think Ben needs to be fixed.

Outside of going on the vacation, which was a stupid time to do that, nothing else he did was anything close to troubling.

I LOVE that he came down on James Washington for playing like shit.

I have no problem with him saying he was disappointed in Bell or demanding Antonio Brown run more routes if he thought things weren't clicking.

Ben is a future Hall of Fame QB. He SHOULD speak up. You don't think Brady hammers teammates when they deserve it?

Brady yells and screams at his OC all of the fucking time, in the middle of games.

Ben Roethlisberger's biggest problem was being Antonio Brown's enabler, right along with Tomlin. If Brown stays, Ben needs to flat-out tell him; "In the past, I've forced passes to you just to keep you happy. To keep you from being a distraction. No more of that shit ever again. Run your route, come back to the huddle and shut the fuck up."


Fair enough. But how much commitment to the team do you project when you decide to schedule a vacation during an OTA.
He has the right, but c'mon - you are the playing leader of the whole team. You couldn't schedule the vacation at another time?
BS


The vacation was pure, unadulterated stupidity but we all know Ben is no rocket scientist, ala Josh Dobbs.

Ben isn't going to be perfect but the biggest thing going forward, if Brown is contrite and ready to be a team player instead of a distraction, is about consistently involving EVERYBODY in this offense.

We have a SHITLOAD of weapons and I have zero doubt they're going to add more this April. Possibly very high in the draft. Use all of them. Spread it around and Ben's INT's will be reduced, significantly.

If they decide to trade Brown I might actually be more excited about this team's chances in 2019. Add more weapons and use 'em all, like Ben used to do years ago and before Brown become a diva.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:52 am 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Quote:
You can hate the guy all you want but I’d challenge anyone to question Tom Brady’s desire to win every single game and championship he can before it’s all said and done.

You mean the Tom Brady that also was on vacation while his team was at OTAs? That Tom Brady?
You want to criticize our guys, Tomlin and Ben, for how they do or don’t do things, that’s fair...but get the fuck out of here with the Brady always does it better media driven bullshit.


Being at or not being at OTAs was far from all I was referring to.

Are you going to make the case that over their careers Ben is as equally prepared and studied up for games as Brady has proven to be?

Go right ahead.

Those measley 3 playoff wins over nearly a decade say otherwise.

As do things like Ben’s pathetic week 1 performance at Cleveland.


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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:03 pm 
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KC wrote:
Ben Roethlisberger's biggest problem was being Antonio Brown's enabler, right along with Tomlin. If Brown stays, Ben needs to flat-out tell him; "In the past, I've forced passes to you just to keep you happy. To keep you from being a distraction. No more of that shit ever again. Run your route, come back to the huddle and shut the fuck up."

QFT

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:06 pm 
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955876 wrote:
As do things like Ben’s pathetic week 1 performance at Cleveland.

The one where his OL got tooled, it was a monsoon, his receivers ran the wrong way and let the ball go straight through their hands, his rookie RB coughed up the ball in crunch time, and he found a way to get his team in position for the GW FG, anyway? That pathetic performance?

Tom Brady went on vacation during OTAs. Tom Brady had multiple worse road games than Ben's week 1. But he's the GOAT.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:21 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
955876 wrote:
As do things like Ben’s pathetic week 1 performance at Cleveland.

The one where his OL got tooled, it was a monsoon, his receivers ran the wrong way and let the ball go straight through their hands, his rookie RB coughed up the ball in crunch time, and he found a way to get his team in position for the GW FG, anyway? That pathetic performance?

Tom Brady went on vacation during OTAs. Tom Brady had multiple worse road games than Ben's week 1. But he's the GOAT.


Yep- Brady was human this year.

Compare their careers now, please.

And watch that Cleveland game again...Ben was as ill-prepared as all of them...many of his passes were terribly off-target.

Might have something to do with the usual “Let’s play our first team together for about 10 minutes of the entire pre-season” approach Mike Tomlin likes to take?

And it was Hue Jackson-coached, Tyrod Taylor-QBed Cleveland...and we’re supposed to laud Ben getting them into FG position in OT?

Seriously?

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:27 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
KC wrote:
Ben Roethlisberger's biggest problem was being Antonio Brown's enabler, right along with Tomlin. If Brown stays, Ben needs to flat-out tell him; "In the past, I've forced passes to you just to keep you happy. To keep you from being a distraction. No more of that shit ever again. Run your route, come back to the huddle and shut the fuck up."

QFT


As long as Ben shows up to every practice (no more “vet days off”), works his ass off to cut down on INTs and doesn’t pooh pooh them or publicly blame them on “he ran his route too flat”, I’m cool with this.

Like I said:

*Show up for EVERY practice...don’t wait to be asked or hide behind “the coach’s decision” (for practice OR playing time, btw...next time Tomlin benches you when you’re medically cleared, be in his ear with a “WTF Coach- I’m healthy- I’m in the game!”)
*Drop the radio show
*Become situationally aware

That’ll go a long way towards establishing bona fide leadership capabilities.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:36 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
Quote:
You can hate the guy all you want but I’d challenge anyone to question Tom Brady’s desire to win every single game and championship he can before it’s all said and done.

You mean the Tom Brady that also was on vacation while his team was at OTAs? That Tom Brady?
You want to criticize our guys, Tomlin and Ben, for how they do or don’t do things, that’s fair...but get the fuck out of here with the Brady always does it better media driven bullshit.


Being at or not being at OTAs was far from all I was referring to.

Are you going to make the case that over their careers Ben is as equally prepared and studied up for games as Brady has proven to be?

Go right ahead.

Those measley 3 playoff wins over nearly a decade say otherwise.

As do things like Ben’s pathetic week 1 performance at Cleveland.

What I’m saying is that we have no idea of what Tom Brady or Ben Roethlisberger do to prepare for a game or season. We have only what we want to perceive, or things thrown out on an internet message board that all of a sudden become cold hard facts. Or things that we believe true based on results.
Both of these guys have been to and won multiple Super Bowls, that doesn’t happen by accident, they are doing something right...both of them.
Now obviously Brady has had more success, but here is what he has...
A head coach that leaves no stone unturned when it comes to preparation...readies for each opponent specifically, and game plans accordingly. Demands accountability.
An offense catered to his ability and increases the possibility of success.
An owner that does anything and everything to better his team and organization...not afraid to make unpopular moves or in season changes.

Ben Roethlisberger has Mike Tomlin and his attrition, we do what we do philosophy.
An offense that forces him to play out of his comfort zone 60-70 percent of the time, then expects him to pull a rabbit out of his ass. Had an OC that was brought in to “put him in his place”.
An owner that is more concerned with public perception and some ridiculous identity bullshit, than putting the best products on the field that he possibly can.

You want to complain about Ben cleaning up his game, cutting down on the turnovers, go right ahead...I’ll go along with you.
But spare me the Ben doesn’t put in work or have the want to that Tom Brady does bullshit, unless you have something other than opinion or perception.


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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:42 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
KC wrote:
Ben Roethlisberger's biggest problem was being Antonio Brown's enabler, right along with Tomlin. If Brown stays, Ben needs to flat-out tell him; "In the past, I've forced passes to you just to keep you happy. To keep you from being a distraction. No more of that shit ever again. Run your route, come back to the huddle and shut the fuck up."

QFT


As long as Ben shows up to every practice (no more “vet days off”), works his ass off to cut down on INTs and doesn’t pooh pooh them or publicly blame them on “he ran his route too flat”, I’m cool with this.

Like I said:

*Show up for EVERY practice...don’t wait to be asked or hide behind “the coach’s decision” (for practice OR playing time, btw...next time Tomlin benches you when you’re medically cleared, be in his ear with a “WTF Coach- I’m healthy- I’m in the game!”)
*Drop the radio show
*Become situationally aware

That’ll go a long way towards establishing bona fide leadership capabilities.



What's annoying is that Ben's Wednesday day-offs are of Tomlin's doing.
At least that's what I heard on SNR. Who knows if it's actually true.


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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:43 pm 
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Quote:
Tom Brady had multiple worse road games than Ben's week 1.


Ya, Brady has multiple 5 turnover games... :roll:

And let’s not blame those 5 turnovers on the monsoon. Tyrod Taylor threw the ball 40 times that day too and only had 1 INT.

Ben nor the team was ready to go that day. Yet another example of thinking they just need to show up and collect their W...

Ben keeps his turnovers to say 3 that day maybe we would be talking about this week’s playoff game.


Last edited by 955876 on Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:50 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
KC wrote:
Ben Roethlisberger's biggest problem was being Antonio Brown's enabler, right along with Tomlin. If Brown stays, Ben needs to flat-out tell him; "In the past, I've forced passes to you just to keep you happy. To keep you from being a distraction. No more of that shit ever again. Run your route, come back to the huddle and shut the fuck up."

QFT


As long as Ben shows up to every practice (no more “vet days off”), works his ass off to cut down on INTs and doesn’t pooh pooh them or publicly blame them on “he ran his route too flat”, I’m cool with this.

Like I said:

*Show up for EVERY practice...don’t wait to be asked or hide behind “the coach’s decision” (for practice OR playing time, btw...next time Tomlin benches you when you’re medically cleared, be in his ear with a “WTF Coach- I’m healthy- I’m in the game!”)
*Drop the radio show
*Become situationally aware

That’ll go a long way towards establishing bona fide leadership capabilities.


Lots of players take "vet days off" Not just Ben. Ward took a bunch of vet days off and that's when Sanders and AB got their chances to prove themselves in practice. We don't know if it is Ben's or Tomlin's decision to take Wednesday's off. The head coach is in charge.

We also don't know what was said to Ben about returning to the game. Tomlin fucked that up royally.

Do you ever actually listen to the radio show? They pressed the shit out of him about AB and the route on that day. He didn't throw him under the bus or anything like that. Nor did he with Washington. I could care less if he does the show or not but he only answers the questions asked of him. I haven't heard anything that should have pissed off the other players.

I think they look like shit at the beginning of the season due to Tomlin's treatment of the pre-season. He is a fucking moron for playing the starters that sparingly. Anyone who played past High School knows that you can NEVER replicate game speed/situations in practice.

Agree with the situationally aware but there is no way that team should have been in that position against a shitty team like Denver (or Cleveland or the Raiders, etc)


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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:51 pm 
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steelheels wrote:
Jeemie wrote:

As long as Ben shows up to every practice (no more “vet days off”), works his ass off to cut down on INTs and doesn’t pooh pooh them or publicly blame them on “he ran his route too flat”, I’m cool with this.

Like I said:

*Show up for EVERY practice...don’t wait to be asked or hide behind “the coach’s decision” (for practice OR playing time, btw...next time Tomlin benches you when you’re medically cleared, be in his ear with a “WTF Coach- I’m healthy- I’m in the game!”)
*Drop the radio show
*Become situationally aware

That’ll go a long way towards establishing bona fide leadership capabilities.



What's annoying is that Ben's Wednesday day-offs are of Tomlin's doing.
At least that's what I heard on SNR. Who knows if it's actually true.

According to Tomlin at the season ending presser, this is done in part to give the young QBs reps.
And it’s not like Ben is sitting at home watching soap operas, he’s still at the facility.
Other vets, Pouncey, Foster specifically also get the vet day off treatment, as did guys like Ward and Bus in the past. Do you think that maybe it’s a chance to give these guys who are NFL old an extra day to recuperate? Sounds reasonable to me...


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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:51 pm 
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Jobus, I agree with much of all the stuff you said in your last post. Was long so didn’t quote it.

I’m just of the opinion at this point that he is culpable for a portion of this team’s woes. How much who knows.

Ben isn’t a 26 year old kid anymore chomping at the bit to achieve a certain level of success.

He’s approaching the tail end of his career, has 2 SBs, millions & millions of dollars, and now has a wife and kids. He was never accused of being the hardest if wirkers even when he was young and should have been.

Most tigers don’t change their stripes.

So yes, I think there is PLENTY of ancillary evidence to support my claim that there are times Ben mails it in. His up & down erratic performance at times supports this.

I’m not saying Brady doesn’t take vacations or miss an OTA. What I’m talking about is bigger, more nuanced, and runs deeper than the surface level stuff like was he at a June OTA or not.

Fair enough?


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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:55 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Jobus, I agree with much of all the stuff you said in your last post. Was long so didn’t quote it.

I’m just of the opinion at this point that he is culpable for a portion of this team’s woes. How much who knows.

Ben isn’t a 26 year old kid anymore chomping at the bit to achieve a certain level of success.

He’s approaching the tail end of his career, has 2 SBs, millions & millions of dollars, and now has a wife and kids. He was never accused of being the hardest if wirkers even when he was young and should have been.

Most tigers don’t change their stripes.

So yes, I think there is PLENTY of ancillary evidence to support my claim that there are times Ben mails it in. His up & down erratic performance at times supports this.

I’m not saying Brady doesn’t take vacations or miss an OTA. What I’m talking about is bigger, more nuanced, and runs deeper than the surface level stuff like was he at a June OTA or not.

Fair enough?

Fair enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:23 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
many of his passes were terribly off-target.

Many? like 3 or 4. In a monsoon and under duress.

I swear you guys watch with your private parts glasses on.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:32 pm 
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So the monsoon is to blame for FIVE turnovers from our 15 year vet that has tons of experience playing in bad weather yet the QB with less than half that tenure was able to throw it to the correct color jerseys and not put the ball in the ground?

Ben nor the team was ready for that game. It’s ok to admit it B2B...


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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:03 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
many of his passes were terribly off-target.

Many? like 3 or 4. In a monsoon and under duress.

I swear you guys watch with your private parts glasses on.

Every non-completion in CLE week 1 game:

3rd and 2. Grabbed ball without laces and it slipped on a slant to AB.
2nd and 9. Drop by Switzer on perfectly thrown ball.
1st and 10. Deep ball fluttered by Hunter. You can blame wind or Hunter for letting up on his route. Throw wasn't unusually poor.
2nd and 10. Out route misconnect with Hunter. Sure looked like Hunter ran his route too flat for a speed out. Throw looked good.
1st and 10. One of Ben's worst three throws of entire season. RZ INT on improv forcing it to AB.
2nd and 7. Threw it away on a screen play when Conner didn't turn around fast enough and pass rusher was free in Ben's face.
1st and 10. Deep INT, intended for AB. Based on Ben's reaction, he expected AB to continue up the field. Misconnect on improv.
1st and 10. Drop/bobble by AB on perfectly thrown corner route.
2nd and 10. INT on ball that goes directly through Jesse James hands.
1st and 10. Dropped high/hard snap, blown blocking assignment, throws ball into ground in direction of JuJu.
1st and 10. Garrett tipped apparently on-target ball at line, intended for JuJu.
3rd and 13. Ben throws wide of AB.
1st and 10. Jesse James obviously stops on route.
2nd and 10. Watched several times, still trying to figure out if Hunter knew what route he was supposed to run. My guess: no.
2nd and 20. Backshoulder throw is on-target, Ward makes great play to knock it out of AB's hands.
1st and 10. Backshoulder throw again on target, again Ward makes great play to knock it away. AB points at himself.
1st and 10. JuJu has the seam and inside position but tracks inside at last second. Miscommunication/choice.
1st and 10. (Last play of game) Desperation heave to Hunter.

I count that as 3 bad throws and two miscommunications (receiver changed directions as the ball was being thrown). Anybody else wants to go through the film and debate me, have at it.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:12 pm 
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Don’t need to go through film B2B.

3 INTs and 2 fumbles is losing football no matter what else you do the rest of the day.

The team was sloppy and not ready for the game. What they “put on tape” supports this.

The coach & QB we faced thy day didn’t even finish the season in those roles. That’s the level of competition we faced.

Almost as daunting as the 2 win Raiders team we fiddled around with and lost to.


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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:12 pm 
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I'll take your word for it...fine.

Now we can talk about the first team getting about 10 minutes of playing time together a preseason.

Others have commented on how blaming it on the monsoon looks ridiculous since Cleveland had to play in it too.

Maybe Tyrod Taylor is a better mudder than Ben and the gang, huh?

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:13 pm 
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the-other-burg wrote:
FromPittWithLove wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
I didn't have reason to think it at the time, but I can't help wondering now if there was more to the story about Ben's absence, particularly since he had just called out Le'Veon Bell for not being at OTAs.

Like, total speculation here, but maybe he or Ficthner was catching flak from AB about the plan to diversify the targets this year OR if Ben really was hacked off about the QB draft pick instead of defense and was like, "well let me give you a real good idea what this team would look like without me".

It just doesn't seem like something Ben would normally have done in the past and weird that he would do it this year, after he helped get rid of Haley.


Whatever the reasons - its bad leadership. I expect better from Ben.


Ben will never be a leader. A great QB yes, but hes a passenger not a captain. I think its the one major knock on him.

Ben is every bit the leader Tom Brady is and more...
...he can be a great field captain...

The glaring, cancerous problem here is there is no leadership above him,
no General or Admiral type to provide mature perspective and vision.
In that void, the entitled, childish, spoiled brat in him is winning out right now, just like it is with the rest of this chaotic mess...

:cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King Podcast w/ Aditi Kinkabwalah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:15 pm 
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You can go back and look at the tape, as I just did. Ben made some spectacular throws in CLE game. He was under duress for most of it, his receivers were either running bad routes (Hunter) or dropping balls (JJ/Switzer). Improv and route selections on option routes/how to run routes was definitely not as sharp as we've grown accustomed to seeing from AB & JuJu with Ben. Ben also felt some phantom pressure after a while and got rid of the ball early.

The Garrett fumble, Ben has zero chance. None. GTFO.
The Avery one... steps up in the pocket and is a bit slow to get rid of it. I mean, both fumbles are plays where the OL just whiffs on the guy who gets the strip sack, so I'm sure Ben thought he had another half second, but I guess we can agree he should have had a faster clock or been more aware peripherally.

So, to recap: in what was possibly his worst game of the year, in a monsoon and on a day where his OL looked like they'd never played together in pass pro, Ben had 3 bad throws (1 INT) + 2 route miscommunications (some % of culpability for a second INT) + one fumble mostly on him. He also had about 5-6 spectacular plays and put his team in position to win on multiple occasions.

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