It is currently Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:29 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 106 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 478
Obviously wrote:
How the fuck is Danny Smith still employed? Answer that one, B2B!


That is legitimately a travesty.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:40 am
Posts: 1891
Obviously wrote:
How the fuck is Danny Smith still employed? Answer that one, B2B!


I think Tomlin likes saying Danny Smiff. Maybe thats why he's still here.

Or maybe we're finally 1 year away from being mediocre on special teams.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:28 pm
Posts: 5282
Art II:

Image

_________________
#CdnSteelerFanStrong
#NoMoTomlin
#BecauseTomlin
#FreeSTD
#Obviously


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:06 am
Posts: 9972
FromPittWithLove wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
Tomlin doesnt think you need to out strategize the opponent, he thinks if you execute said play precisley, it wont matter if the defense knows whats coming, iron sharpens iron...its all part of his attrition style, close football games philosophy, a philosophy that more often times than not comes back to expose his glaring game mgmt flaws and bites all of us in the ass,,,every year for 12 years...there is no learning because he knows his way is the right way..if only a refs call had gone our way..if only boseell kicked better..hes just fucking clueless.


:roll:




roll your eyes all you want, this guy is football dumb and wasnt hired for his ability with X's and O's and game strategy abilities according to ex player and friend Ryan Clark.

_________________
#CdnSteelerFanStrong


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 478
GreekSteel wrote:
FromPittWithLove wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
Tomlin doesnt think you need to out strategize the opponent, he thinks if you execute said play precisley, it wont matter if the defense knows whats coming, iron sharpens iron...its all part of his attrition style, close football games philosophy, a philosophy that more often times than not comes back to expose his glaring game mgmt flaws and bites all of us in the ass,,,every year for 12 years...there is no learning because he knows his way is the right way..if only a refs call had gone our way..if only boseell kicked better..hes just fucking clueless.


:roll:




roll your eyes all you want, this guy is football dumb and wasnt hired for his ability with X's and O's and game strategy abilities according to ex player and friend Ryan Clark.


I'm rolling my eyes because every.single.coach. thinks you win by execution.

Newsflash, there's only so much deception/strategizing you can do when you literally put your gameplan on film every week. Do you think Coach's come up with entirely new plays every week? They don't, They might tweak the packages they use, add a new wrinkle to a play, but your playbook doesn't change much. This whole sport is about execution. Have you heard Bill Bellichick's mantra? "Just Do Your Job".

Care to share that quote? Pretty sure Ryan Clark calling Mike Tomlin football dumb would be pretty big headlines.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:48 pm
Posts: 1762
FromPittWithLove wrote:
Obviously wrote:
How the fuck is Danny Smith still employed? Answer that one, B2B!


That is legitimately a travesty.

My best guess is that the Rooney family has a major stake in the Wrigley Company and Business is Booming (chomping) as long as he's on the sidelines. ;)

_________________
#CdnSteelerFanStrong


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:47 am
Posts: 4728
Jobus Rum wrote:
Quote:
because they feel they were a few plays away from being a 12-4 team.

Nothing will change, they think they’re there, just unfortunate. We do what we do...organizational philosophy.
Fuck me sideways... :roll:


It's mind numbing. We as fans are screwed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:11 pm
Posts: 2693
FromPittWithLove wrote:

Care to share that quote? Pretty sure Ryan Clark calling Mike Tomlin football dumb would be pretty big headlines.


He inferred it when he was on with Max Kellerman and Screamin A Smith when they were talking about the Lefluer to GB hiring. It is on youtube or here somewhere. He said Tomlin might not be the best with X's and O's but is a good leader or something along those lines.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:47 am
Posts: 4728
Jeemie wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Both positions are correct:
1. team was a couple of plays from being the #1 seed in the AFC
2. choices they made on a few plays were the difference in missing the postseason

If we had finished as, say, the #2 or 3 seed, there would have been some reasons for hope... Red Zone and TD scoring, FG kicker won't be as bad next year, officiating robbery will probably even out over time, close games will likely work out more in our favor next year, defensive adjustments were made vs Patriots, defense played pretty well vs NO & LAC, after getting embarrassed by Chiefs.

IF they add the right pieces, get a positive resolution to the AB drama, and just get away from their strategy of getting into shortening the game mode with any 2nd half lead... next year could be really promising.

For those who don't think a philosophical change like that is possible with this head coach, you also thought the adjustments vs NE and getting away from ball control/shortening the game early in games would never change. Both those things clearly changed this year.
Image


No- there/s no chance, B2B.

The fact those few plays hurt so much is a DIRECT RESULT of the philosophy...they are linked, not separate issues.

And there’s zero indication Mike Tomlin understands this.


Exactly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:54 pm
Posts: 4357
You guys are correct. We were a couple plays away from being 7-8-1 or worse. It works both ways. The bottom line is that we did not close out games. That was primarily coaching driven.

In order to get a first round bye next year, we have to clean up the miscommunications, cut down turnovers, cut down penalties, get better special teams play and kicking, and find a way to force turnovers. We also can't go backwards in red zone production. It's going to take some really good coaching to get a lot of that done.

But, we are done making changes. What horseshit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 478
stillthere wrote:
FromPittWithLove wrote:

Care to share that quote? Pretty sure Ryan Clark calling Mike Tomlin football dumb would be pretty big headlines.


He inferred it when he was on with Max Kellerman and Screamin A Smith when they were talking about the Lefluer to GB hiring. It is on youtube or here somewhere. He said Tomlin might not be the best with X's and O's but is a good leader or something along those lines.


Again - could you find? I'd be legitimately interested to hear. Couldn't find anything on youtube myself.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:59 pm
Posts: 245
We would not have been a "few plays away" from being in the playoffs absent the continued communication miscues, poor discipline in game altering situations, repetitive strategic mismanagement, and a pervasive inability to perform in time critical situations.... absent those things we would have walked into the playoffs.

In short, absent the same old shit Tomlin adds to this team year in and year out we are in with ease.

Sure, he's not the sole reason we aren't still playing, but Tomlin is the primary reason this team is at home right now.

These issues are not recency bias either, it's been the same issues EVERY SINGLE FUCKING YEAR of Tomlin's tenure. His issues are chronic and the limiting factor of this teams success.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:34 pm
Posts: 24885
the-other-burg wrote:
Obviously wrote:
How the fuck is Danny Smith still employed? Answer that one, B2B!


I think Tomlin likes saying Danny Smiff. Maybe thats why he's still here.

Or maybe we're finally 1 year away from being mediocre on special teams.


In his chat transcript (where he confirmed what was said here- he believes the Steelers are done making changes) Bouchette blames the lack of players on defense and STs. He thinks Butler and Smith are good coaches.

As for the “strategy v execution” part, yes both are needed.

But great coaching uses strategy AND tactics to put players in the best chances to succeed...and execute properly.

For instance, in New Orleans, it might have made good strategic sense to run for it on 3rd and 2 and go for it on 4th and 5. It was the choice of tactics (a bunched in box against the best run defense in football using your 3rd/4th-best RB, and a fake punt play that required a slow-moving FB that rarely carries the ball to get 5 yards while a key block had to be made on a guy who outweighed the blocker by 65 pounds) that sucked...there’s no way these were the best plays that could have been called for these critical situations.

Likewise, tactically you might know your offense functions better in hurry up when it’s got timeouts but strategically a minute with no timeouts is WAY better than 15 seconds and 2 timeouts.

This is where Mike Tomlin routinely falls down on the job.

That plus the little things...like not plotting out 2-3 playcalls with Ben and Haley while waiting for an instant replay review on Jesse James, or routinely burning timeouts in games because of cinfusion on which coach is calling what play. Here is where the Steelers’ braintrust also routinely falls short.

Clean these up and adopt an “Always Be Attacking” game management philosophy and we’d be amazed how the seemingly random “bad plays” would disappear.

_________________
“A set of several simple rules leads to complex, intelligent behavior. While a set of complex rules often leads to dumb and primitive behavior.”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 478
Jeemie wrote:
the-other-burg wrote:
Obviously wrote:
How the fuck is Danny Smith still employed? Answer that one, B2B!


I think Tomlin likes saying Danny Smiff. Maybe thats why he's still here.

Or maybe we're finally 1 year away from being mediocre on special teams.


In his chat transcript (where he confirmed what ws said here- he believes the Steelers are done making changes) Bouchette blames the lack of players on defense and STs. He thinks Bouchette and Smith are good coaches.

As for the “strategy v execution” part, yes both are needed.

But great coaching uses strategy AND tactics to put players in the best chances to succeed...and execute properly.

For instance, in New Orleans, it might have made good strategic sense to run for it on 3rd and 2 and go for it on 4th and 5. It was the choice of tactics (a bunched in box against the best run defense in football using your 3rd/4th-best RB, and a fake punt play that required a slow-moving FB that rarely carries the ball to get 5 yards while a key block had to be made on a guy who outweighed the blocker by 65 pounds) that sucked...there’s no way these were the best plays that could have been called for these critical situations.

Likewise, tactically you might know your offense functions better in hurry up when it’s got timeouts but strategically a minute with no timeouts is WAY better, strategically, than 15 seconds and 2 timeouts.

This is where Mike Tomlin routinely falls down on the job.

That plus the little things...like not plotting out 2-3 playcalls with Ben and Haley while waiting for an instant replay review on Jesse James, or routinely burning timeouts in games because of cinfusion on which coach is calling what play. Here is where the Steelers’ braintrust also routinely falls short.

Clean these up and adopt an “Always Be Attacking” game management philosophy and we’d be amazed how the seemingly random “bad plays” would disappear.


Not disagreeing with much of this. Mike Tomlin is not perfect, not at all. The Oakland game was terrible management, no arguments.
Tomlin is bad at game management in general.

My own personal stance is that people make judgements about Mike Tomlin's stategic plan based on the results of the play without any insight into what Tomlin's logic is.

Let's take the 3rd and 2 run call. You say its bad tactics - why? Because they don't have options to get out of the play or give away the likely play call? Might be true! How do you know they don't have something on film that makes them really confident of that call (they had only gone bunched like 1-2 other times that game, right?). Similarly, how do we know they aren't just idiots? The fact is we don't know - and I think people read way way way too much into things when they fail and I just can't get behind that.

Also, I thought the ST teams play was fine. The guy who screwed up the play wasn't Matekevich (he was bad), the key block is Chickillo. He's blocking another LB and failed. These decisions aren't made in a vacuum, I'm sure they saw something on tape that they liked.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:34 pm
Posts: 24885
You're wrong. I don't evaluate Tomlin's decisions based on results.

I've called out a ton of his decisions as being either strategically or tactically wrong even when they worked.

Or I've called out that a play is likely to fail even before it fails.

You want to know who's guilty of results-based decision analysis?

Mike Tomlin.

PS on the fake punt they had a one player numbers advantage at the POA. That's great if you only need a couple yards...not 5.

And it's Big Red's man that grabs Nix and slows him down so Chick's man can finish.

Point of the story...you want to go for it on 4th and 5? There is no way that's your best play or personnel.

In key spots in a game, the best strategy is to go with your BEST players and your BEST plays.

Not your scrubs with a suboptimal play.

_________________
“A set of several simple rules leads to complex, intelligent behavior. While a set of complex rules often leads to dumb and primitive behavior.”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:11 pm
Posts: 2693
FromPittWithLove wrote:
stillthere wrote:
FromPittWithLove wrote:

Care to share that quote? Pretty sure Ryan Clark calling Mike Tomlin football dumb would be pretty big headlines.


He inferred it when he was on with Max Kellerman and Screamin A Smith when they were talking about the Lefluer to GB hiring. It is on youtube or here somewhere. He said Tomlin might not be the best with X's and O's but is a good leader or something along those lines.


Again - could you find? I'd be legitimately interested to hear. Couldn't find anything on youtube myself.




Brings up John Harbaugh as well and says personality and leadership sometimes out weigh what you can bring from an x's and o's side of things.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:52 pm
Posts: 839
Per @JeremyFowler
Steelers coach Mike Tomlin had a productive meeting with DC Keith Butler as part of his post-season sessions with his staff. Nothing official but it wouldn't surprise to see return of Butler, who has one year left on deal.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 478
Jeemie wrote:
You're wrong. I don't evaluate Tomlin's decisions based on results.

I've called out a ton of his decisions as being either strategically or tactically wrong even when they worked.

Or I've called out that a play is likely to fail even before it fails.

You want to know who's guilty of results-based decision analysis?

Mike Tomlin.

PS on the fake punt they had a one player numbers advantage at the POA. That's great if you only need a couple yards...not 5.

And it's Big Red's man that grabs Nix and slows him down so Chick's man can finish.

Point of the story...you want to go for it on 4th and 5? There is no way that's your best play or personnel.

In key spots in a game, the best strategy is to go with your BEST players and your BEST plays.

Not your scrubs with a suboptimal play.

Don't think I called out you specifically, but I'm happy to play along.

Again - why is it bad tactics? Because you see that New Orleans is ranked high in rush DVOA defense? I think that you think its bad tactics because you saw the pass game working. Really strong process-based decision making there, Jeemie.

But can you tell me - what was the success % for Pitt on 3rd and short when passing vs running? I don't know, do you? What's the average yards per rush they've had out of those formations?

What is New Orleans success defending 3rd and short against the pass or rush? What is the average rushing yardage NO gives up against 23 or 22 personnel? I don't know, but I bet the Steelers do.

So was it really bad tactics? Unless you've got those numbers handy, you are just as "gut" based as the rest of us.

Chick's man only finishes because Chickillo has awful technique on that play. That was my point.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 478
stillthere wrote:


Brings up John Harbaugh as well and says personality and leadership sometimes out weigh what you can bring from an x's and o's side of things.


Appreciate that, kind sir. But this doesn't say anything of the sort that Greek claimed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:07 am
Posts: 258
stillthere wrote:
FromPittWithLove wrote:

Care to share that quote? Pretty sure Ryan Clark calling Mike Tomlin football dumb would be pretty big headlines.


He inferred it when he was on with Max Kellerman and Screamin A Smith when they were talking about the Lefluer to GB hiring. It is on youtube or here somewhere. He said Tomlin might not be the best with X's and O's but is a good leader or something along those lines.


I don't get people constantly admitting that he isn't good at X's and O's but says its ok because he is a great motivator/leader. First, I am not sure the motivator part is true given how we always come out flat against terrible teams. But, assuming arguendo he is a man among men when it comes to motivation, does that mean he gets them all fired up and ready for war only to be unable to tell them wtf to do because, well, he isn't very good at X's and O's? I picture our players excitedly screaming, "We don't know what the fuck we are supposed to do but we sure as hell are fired up to do it if someone figures it out."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 478
Steel Reign wrote:
stillthere wrote:
FromPittWithLove wrote:

Care to share that quote? Pretty sure Ryan Clark calling Mike Tomlin football dumb would be pretty big headlines.


He inferred it when he was on with Max Kellerman and Screamin A Smith when they were talking about the Lefluer to GB hiring. It is on youtube or here somewhere. He said Tomlin might not be the best with X's and O's but is a good leader or something along those lines.


I don't get people constantly admitting that he isn't good at X's and O's but says its ok because he is a great motivator/leader. First, I am not sure the motivator part is true given how we always come out flat against terrible teams. But, assuming arguendo he is a man among men when it comes to motivation, does that mean he gets them all fired up and ready for war only to be unable to tell them wtf to do because, well, he isn't very good at X's and O's? I picture our players excitedly screaming, "We don't know what the fuck we are supposed to do but we sure as hell are fired up to do it if someone figures it out."


We have a winner.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:19 am
Posts: 11084
I think we all knew this was the case.

_________________
#CdnSteelerFanStrong
Orangesteel wrote:
We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:06 am
Posts: 9972
FromPittWithLove wrote:
stillthere wrote:


Brings up John Harbaugh as well and says personality and leadership sometimes out weigh what you can bring from an x's and o's side of things.


Appreciate that, kind sir. But this doesn't say anything of the sort that Greek claimed.




he says that Tomlin is not an Xs and Os coach...football dumb is my term and opinion of him.

_________________
#CdnSteelerFanStrong


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 478
GreekSteel wrote:
FromPittWithLove wrote:
stillthere wrote:


Brings up John Harbaugh as well and says personality and leadership sometimes out weigh what you can bring from an x's and o's side of things.


Appreciate that, kind sir. But this doesn't say anything of the sort that Greek claimed.




he says that Tomlin is not an Xs and Os coach...football dumb is my term and opinion of him.


Good try but he didn't even say that - he said X and O's aren't the most important quality of a HC. He made no comment about how good Tomlin is or is not at that aspect of the game.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bouchette On The Fan: Steelers Likely Done Making Change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:06 am
Posts: 9972
ote="FromPittWithLove"]
GreekSteel wrote:
FromPittWithLove wrote:
stillthere wrote:


Brings up John Harbaugh as well and says personality and leadership sometimes out weigh what you can bring from an x's and o's side of things.


Appreciate that, kind sir. But this doesn't say anything of the sort that Greek claimed.




he says that Tomlin is not an Xs and Os coach...football dumb is my term and opinion of him.


Good try but he didn't even say that - he said X and O's aren't the most important quality of a HC. He made no comment about how good Tomlin is or is not at that aspect of the game.[/quote]



Thats not the exact clip that i saw but i promise you he did say exactly that in the one that i watched. Tried to find it, cant, you'll have to take my word for it. :D

_________________
#CdnSteelerFanStrong


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 106 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CdnSteelerFan and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
cron
FORUM RULES --- PRIVACY POLICY




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group