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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:44 pm 
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Again...is it Tomlin or AB? I get they are not mutually exclusive. However, you can not rule out that Tomlin has been causing the problems with AB. What if AB is such a competitor that the 3 game losing streak we went on put him over the top on the hit to his stats and brand. Worrying about stats and your brand are not mutually exclusive to winning a title either. You can do both and still be a great teammate. This shit should have come to a head after the 3 game losing streak and the path to missing the playoffs revealed it’s ugly head. It means there is passion.

The only reason Bettis helped out Parker was because he was banged up and couldn’t make it the whole year. Otherwise he’d have been playing.

Brown has done a shit ton for younger players. I can see it in every game and every WR that has come on the team since about his 3rd year on the team. They all act and look like mini-Browns, with there hand movements, hand to hand combat, their hips staying low, hell even their striding looks similar.

We all don’t know the details, but whatever they are it is fixable. This is nothing an apology and some victories won’t cure.


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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:58 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
Again...is it Tomlin or AB? I get they are not mutually exclusive. However, you can not rule out that Tomlin has been causing the problems with AB. What if AB is such a competitor that the 3 game losing streak we went on put him over the top on the hit to his stats and brand. Worrying about stats and your brand are not mutually exclusive to winning a title either. You can do both and still be a great teammate. This shit should have come to a head after the 3 game losing streak and the path to missing the playoffs revealed it’s ugly head. It means there is passion.

The only reason Bettis helped out Parker was because he was banged up and couldn’t make it the whole year. Otherwise he’d have been playing.

Brown has done a shit ton for younger players. I can see it in every game and every WR that has come on the team since about his 3rd year on the team. They all act and look like mini-Browns, with there hand movements, hand to hand combat, their hips staying low, hell even their striding looks similar.

We all don’t know the details, but whatever they are it is fixable. This is nothing an apology and some victories won’t cure.


Not sure if you heard, but Mortenson announced the Steelers definitely plan on trading Brown.

Had AB immediately come out after the Bungles game and said; "Hey, I fucked up. I abandoned my team when they needed me most and for that, I'm sorry. It'll never happen again. Being a Steeler means the world to me".

Maybe you heard him say something similar come directly from AB. I know I sure as fuck didn't.

I don't think Tomlin, Colbert or Art II heard anything like that from AB either.

Hence, fuck him.

I believe Ryan Clark's AB story 100%. I'm SURE it's true. AB isn't a Pittsburgh Steelers player anymore and hasn't been for awhile.

AB plays for AB and nothing else.

Now, don't think for a second I'm absolving fuckface Aviators. He's the perfect enabler. He's incapable of disciplining any star player the way it needs to be done and he's paying for that now.

Next year, Tomlin will be coaching for his job and he'll be doing so without Brown & Bell. That's EXACTLY the way it needs to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:00 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
I'm gonna be pissed if we lose this guy.

In what reality have we not already lost him? You can be under contract and still out to lunch.

And how many teams with absolute superstars don't win the big dance or even make it to the field?

But how many teams have won the SB without ANY player heralded as the best at his position?

We don't need Bell or Brown to be successful.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:01 pm 
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7forSteel wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
I'm gonna be pissed if we lose this guy.

In what reality have we not already lost him? You can be under contract and still out to lunch.

And how many teams with absolute superstars don't win the big dance or even make it to the field?

But how many teams have won the SB without ANY player heralded as the best at his position?

We don't need Bell or Brown to be successful.


THIS.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:02 pm 
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If AB does leave it'll be interesting to see how JuJu fares without AB around getting doubled/tripled teamed.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:04 pm 
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T.W. wrote:
If AB does leave it'll be interesting to see how JuJu fares without AB around getting doubled/tripled teamed.


If Brown leaves, we will likely add a first or second round WR. Likely a burner and James Washington (who finally showed up late in the season) will be a year older.

One thing we should all remember: Kevin Colbert and/or Aviators have done a goddamn good job drafting WR's.

That's pretty undeniable.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:12 pm 
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KC wrote:
LakecrestSteeler wrote:
This board is out to lunch on AB. You all are talking out of both sides of your mouths.

Is Tomlin the issue? Is defense the issue? Is offense the issue?

End of story because I know you all answered yes yes no! If you didn’t please turn in your Steeler Fan credentials at http://www.DontKnowDickAboutTheSteelersProblems.edu

How can all this venom be spewed about Tomlin, and then in the same breath you want to get rid of the HOf WR that will never ever be replaced? Treat the disease not the symptom. Tomlin is the issue and AB is the symptom of the problems with the coaching.

So let’s suck it up one more year, and in the mean time fix the damn defense. Tomlin will be gone the next year if things blow up, or if he remains it means it has worked out with AB.

This is the best path forward, easiest, and it it will ensure Tomlin shapes up the team or ships out.


Ben hasn’t won dick with Antonio Brown or Le’Veon Bell.

But he’s won Super Bowls with far less offensive talent, because those guys weren’t selfish cocksuckers. They didn’t care who got the glory. I was hard on Bettis but he helped Willie Parker become a Super Bowl difference maker. Bettis didn’t demand carries and didn’t cry when Parker supplanted him as the feature back.

Why? Bettis wanted to win.

Antonio Brown doesn’t give a fuck about winning. He doesn’t give a fuck about his teammates. Being a Pittsburgh Steeler means nothing to him.

AB is about AB.

AB is about stats. Targets, catches and attention.

Not winning games.

He quit on his team. Fuck AB.


Couldn't have said it better myself, great post KC.....it takes the heart of a champion to be a champion, a me before team attitude can be very divisive in a locker room full of guys that are team first.


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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:19 pm 
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KC wrote:
T.W. wrote:
If AB does leave it'll be interesting to see how JuJu fares without AB around getting doubled/tripled teamed.


If Brown leaves, we will likely add a first or second round WR. Likely a burner and James Washington (who finally showed up late in the season) will be a year older.

One thing we should all remember: Kevin Colbert and/or Aviators have done a goddamn good job drafting WR's.

That's pretty undeniable.


I can refute it potentially, but not deny it. We still don‘t Really know how much was Richard Mann versus draft. Drake’s first year is under his belt, and it took forever for Washington to show a glimmer of hope. And now we have AB blowing up! Coincidence? So maybe Tombert is not so great at drafting and it was Mann this whole time.

And why the fuck would we want to waste a 1st or second round pick on WR? Defense defense defense. That would be like aiming the fire hose at the house when the barn is on fire.

There shouldn’t be one draft pick wasted on offense until about the 5th round.


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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:20 pm 
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Like I’ve stated prior, totally ok w trading AB, but ONLY if we get similar value in return.

A fucked up trade will piss me off.....

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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:28 pm 
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KC wrote:
T.W. wrote:
If AB does leave it'll be interesting to see how JuJu fares without AB around getting doubled/tripled teamed.


If Brown leaves, we will likely add a first or second round WR. Likely a burner and James Washington (who finally showed up late in the season) will be a year older.

One thing we should all remember: Kevin Colbert and/or Aviators have done a goddamn good job drafting WR's.

That's pretty undeniable.

Agreed with that being the case though I hope we can hit on a gem in the later rounds and spend the first two picks on defense.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:30 pm 
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/08/ryan-clark-antonio-brown-cussed-out-dick-lebeau-mike-tomlin-let-it-get-out-of-hand/


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Former Steeler Ryan Clark says he almost got in a fight with Antonio Brown after Brown cussed out Dick LeBeau in 2012. Clark says Brown has become a big problem in Pittsburgh, and Mike Tomlin let it get out of hand

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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:35 pm 
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Who cusses out an 80 year old man?


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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:38 pm 
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T.W. wrote:
KC wrote:
T.W. wrote:
If AB does leave it'll be interesting to see how JuJu fares without AB around getting doubled/tripled teamed.


If Brown leaves, we will likely add a first or second round WR. Likely a burner and James Washington (who finally showed up late in the season) will be a year older.

One thing we should all remember: Kevin Colbert and/or Aviators have done a goddamn good job drafting WR's.

That's pretty undeniable.

Agreed with that being the case though I hope we can hit on a gem in the later rounds and spend the first two picks on defense.


Defense will be very important and I expect we'll get multiple high picks for Brown.

We'll be able to get defensive help and a big-time WR once we deal the diva fuckface.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:41 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
KC wrote:
T.W. wrote:
If AB does leave it'll be interesting to see how JuJu fares without AB around getting doubled/tripled teamed.


If Brown leaves, we will likely add a first or second round WR. Likely a burner and James Washington (who finally showed up late in the season) will be a year older.

One thing we should all remember: Kevin Colbert and/or Aviators have done a goddamn good job drafting WR's.

That's pretty undeniable.


I can refute it potentially, but not deny it. We still don‘t Really know how much was Richard Mann versus draft. Drake’s first year is under his belt, and it took forever for Washington to show a glimmer of hope. And now we have AB blowing up! Coincidence? So maybe Tombert is not so great at drafting and it was Mann this whole time.

And why the fuck would we want to waste a 1st or second round pick on WR? Defense defense defense. That would be like aiming the fire hose at the house when the barn is on fire.

There shouldn’t be one draft pick wasted on offense until about the 5th round.


We'll pick a defensive player if a defensive player if the best player on the Steelers board when it's their turn to pick.

You know this team. They have several positions that need upgrading. They'll take the best player they possibly can, on either side of the ball.

But WR will become a MAJOR, MAJOR PRIORITY if Antonio Brown is traded.

Likely bigger than any other position.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:24 pm 
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KC just praised Bettis
When you have these kinds of statements, it just goes to show you how united nearly everyone is on the nomotomlin train

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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:30 pm 
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There are two truths that hold themselves evident.

1. AB is done here. There comes a point where no amount of production is worth the distraction. Football aint the NBA. One guy, other than maybe the QB, should ever be this far above the team.

2. No matter how you slice it, the offense will take a big hit without him. Ultimate playmaker, best route runner in the league, clutch, and Bens favorite target.

So it sucks, but thats life. Hoepfully we wont get fleeced on his value when teams realize we are desperate to unload him.


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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:39 pm 
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the-other-burg wrote:
There are two truths that hold themselves evident.

1. AB is done here. There comes a point where no amount of production is worth the distraction. Football aint the NBA. One guy, other than maybe the QB, should ever be this far above the team.

2. No matter how you slice it, the offense will take a big hit without him. Ultimate playmaker, best route runner in the league, clutch, and Bens favorite target.

So it sucks, but thats life. Hoepfully we wont get fleeced on his value when teams realize we are desperate to unload him.

Here’s where the problem comes in. It’s probably best going forward to move him, but you can’t be desperate. They need the correct value...can’t be, as you note, fleeced. Don’t trade him just to trade him.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:48 pm 
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the-other-burg wrote:
There are two truths that hold themselves evident.

1. AB is done here. There comes a point where no amount of production is worth the distraction. Football aint the NBA. One guy, other than maybe the QB, should ever be this far above the team.

2. No matter how you slice it, the offense will take a big hit without him. Ultimate playmaker, best route runner in the league, clutch, and Bens favorite target.

So it sucks, but thats life. Hoepfully we wont get fleeced on his value when teams realize we are desperate to unload him.


My immediate reaction when all this came out was that time will smooth it over, he's too good and any window left is too short to move on.

But what he did is pretty much unforgivable.

I think you have to move on. It will no doubt hurt this offense next year, but we ain't winning shit anyways until we get the defense and locker room fixed.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:51 pm 
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the-other-burg wrote:
There are two truths that hold themselves evident.

1. AB is done here. There comes a point where no amount of production is worth the distraction. Football aint the NBA. One guy, other than maybe the QB, should ever be this far above the team.

2. No matter how you slice it, the offense will take a big hit without him. Ultimate playmaker, best route runner in the league, clutch, and Bens favorite target.

So it sucks, but thats life. Hoepfully we wont get fleeced on his value when teams realize we are desperate to unload him.


3 things.

1) AB's bitching literally weakened Ben's ability to make plays all over the field. To find the open receiver. AB was the best I ever saw, but when your QB is at the point where he's taking unnecessary risks simply to keep a WR happy and to stop him from being a major distraction, well....that player is no longer worth the headache. No matter who he is and what he's done.

2) Juju Smith-Schuster is really, really good. Headed for greatness. Vance McDonald became a force at TE this season. James Conner did what I never believed he'd do. He became a serious force in the passing game. Jaylen Samuels made catch after catch once he was inserted in the lineup and his future is beyond bright. Samuels will see the field plenty in coming years and Ben's lucky to have him. James Washington made some very big plays for us late in the season. I'm very encouraged and I'm 100% sure we'll add plenty of talent this April and after that. At least one big-time rookie WR and likely another veteran.

3) Addition by subtraction is a thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:52 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
KC just praised Bettis
When you have these kinds of statements, it just goes to show you how united nearly everyone is on the nomotomlin train


I hadn't even thought of that. Sheesh.


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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:25 pm 
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KC wrote:
the-other-burg wrote:
There are two truths that hold themselves evident.

1. AB is done here. There comes a point where no amount of production is worth the distraction. Football aint the NBA. One guy, other than maybe the QB, should ever be this far above the team.

2. No matter how you slice it, the offense will take a big hit without him. Ultimate playmaker, best route runner in the league, clutch, and Bens favorite target.

So it sucks, but thats life. Hoepfully we wont get fleeced on his value when teams realize we are desperate to unload him.


3 things.

1) AB's bitching literally weakened Ben's ability to make plays all over the field. To find the open receiver. AB was the best I ever saw, but when your QB is at the point where he's taking unnecessary risks simply to keep a WR happy and to stop him from being a major distraction, well....that player is no longer worth the headache. No matter who he is and what he's done.

2) Juju Smith-Schuster is really, really good. Headed for greatness. Vance McDonald became a force at TE this season. James Conner did what I never believed he'd do. He became a serious force in the passing game. Jaylen Samuels made catch after catch once he was inserted in the lineup and his future is beyond bright. Samuels will see the field plenty in coming years and Ben's lucky to have him. James Washington made some very big plays for us late in the season. I'm very encouraged and I'm 100% sure we'll add plenty of talent this April and after that. At least one big-time rookie WR and likely another veteran.

3) Addition by subtraction is a thing.


Fair points, and I would love to be positive -

-JuJu is legit, but who knows how he will play as the primary threat.

-Vance has all the tools, but he needs to stay healthy and a part of the game plan. Our TE production always seems to fade in the second half of games.

-The running game was always aided by the threat of the passing game.

- I 100% agree that Ben forced too many to AB, and it was a pain point.

If we had a coaching staff that knew how to Maximize talent, I would be less concerned. But this is a team whose success seems to depend on having HOFers at ever skill position. And even then we shit the bed on gameplanning.


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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:37 pm 
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the-other-burg wrote:
KC wrote:
the-other-burg wrote:
There are two truths that hold themselves evident.

1. AB is done here. There comes a point where no amount of production is worth the distraction. Football aint the NBA. One guy, other than maybe the QB, should ever be this far above the team.

2. No matter how you slice it, the offense will take a big hit without him. Ultimate playmaker, best route runner in the league, clutch, and Bens favorite target.

So it sucks, but thats life. Hoepfully we wont get fleeced on his value when teams realize we are desperate to unload him.


3 things.

1) AB's bitching literally weakened Ben's ability to make plays all over the field. To find the open receiver. AB was the best I ever saw, but when your QB is at the point where he's taking unnecessary risks simply to keep a WR happy and to stop him from being a major distraction, well....that player is no longer worth the headache. No matter who he is and what he's done.

2) Juju Smith-Schuster is really, really good. Headed for greatness. Vance McDonald became a force at TE this season. James Conner did what I never believed he'd do. He became a serious force in the passing game. Jaylen Samuels made catch after catch once he was inserted in the lineup and his future is beyond bright. Samuels will see the field plenty in coming years and Ben's lucky to have him. James Washington made some very big plays for us late in the season. I'm very encouraged and I'm 100% sure we'll add plenty of talent this April and after that. At least one big-time rookie WR and likely another veteran.

3) Addition by subtraction is a thing.


Fair points, and I would love to be positive -

-JuJu is legit, but who knows how he will play as the primary threat.

-Vance has all the tools, but he needs to stay healthy and a part of the game plan. Our TE production always seems to fade in the second half of games.

-The running game was always aided by the threat of the passing game.

- I 100% agree that Ben forced too many to AB, and it was a pain point.

If we had a coaching staff that knew how to Maximize talent, I would be less concerned. But this is a team whose success seems to depend on having HOFers at ever skill position. And even then we shit the bed on gameplanning.


I don't know.

Ben's best games are when he completes throws to like 7 different guys.

When he looks for the open receiver and doesn't force throws to one player (99% of the time, that one player is AB - how many HUGE INTS did Ben throw this year forcing throws to AB? Seriously, this point is much, much larger than most folks think).

My main point above is that we have the weapons to cover the loss of AB and.....I know this sounds crazy....we might even be better off without him.

Will we miss Antonio Brown's unbelievable talent? Of course we would. Who wouldn't? But we already have significant receiving talent and we will add major pieces before next season begins.

Ben will not feel like he MUST get AB's his targets. Other receivers will work harder knowing if they're open, they might actually see the fucking ball regularly.

Look at the Saints. They have one stud and a bunch of other receivers (pretty no name guys) who can kill you. THAT is what I see us looking like in 2019.

I'll bet Ben's INT #'s are waaaaay down next season and he ends up being far more efficient.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:09 pm 
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Nick, buddy, nobody needs the player to be a saint and kiss fucking babies, but they do need him to show up for practice and games. Slight difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:23 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/08/ryan-clark-antonio-brown-cussed-out-dick-lebeau-mike-tomlin-let-it-get-out-of-hand/


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Former Steeler Ryan Clark says he almost got in a fight with Antonio Brown after Brown cussed out Dick LeBeau in 2012. Clark says Brown has become a big problem in Pittsburgh, and Mike Tomlin let it get out of hand


We all heard this from a mark about him telling a staffer that it was apparent t when Wallace was leaving they would sign AB and Clark said if they do they’ll create a monster. I found that interesting.

What really put me in the Fuck Antonio Brown department was our very own SteelerFury podcast it was mentioned that in the same argument with Clark and AB in practice where they almost threw blows was mentioned that AB also told Clark that he was gonna make more money than him in one day than Clark did his entire year and called him a scrub. All because that little bitch didn’t want to be hit/hurt in practice.

Fuck this piece of shit, trade his ass yesterday!

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 Post subject: Re: Rosenhaus on AB
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:36 pm 
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R S wrote:
Nick, buddy, nobody needs the player to be a saint and kiss fucking babies, but they do need him to show up for practice and games. Slight difference.


Pointless trying to reason with a block head like Nick.

As long as he gets a chuckle all is good.

He actually said he’d rather keep AB and put up stats while not winning any playoff games than lose him.

The entire point of the season is to make it to and win postseason games.

Duh.


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