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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Finchtner
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:37 pm 
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steelmann58 wrote:
the only thing I would elimate is that wr screen behind the line

That works for 5-6 yards on average? Damn, man, they're killing with it because they made it a lot less telegraphed.

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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Finchtner
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:52 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Stupendous performance tonight, on a short week, yet.



other then a couple of the bubble screens I dislike I loved the play mix and the execution even more. had them off balance all damn night. this offense is getting to be scary good dare I say! so many weapons.


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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Finchtner
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:39 pm 
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steelmann58 wrote:
the only thing I would elimate is that wr screen behind the line

You mean like the one AB scored a TD on last week?

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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:21 pm 
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NO the screens that lost yardage .


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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:55 pm 
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In the past 2 games, Switzer is tied with JuJu for the most 3rd down receptions.

Fichtner doin' work.

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he’s tied in third down receptions with JuJu Smith-Schuster. Still, the fact that Switzer, who had begun to fade from this offense, is thriving on such an important down means this offense has established another threat in the passing game. He has four receptions on third down against the Baltimore Ravens and Carolina Panthers, all of them moving the sticks.


https://steelersdepot.com/2018/11/film-room-ryan-switzer-becoming-a-weapon-on-third-down/

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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Finchtner
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:03 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
They’ve run that exact same play multiple times, often in goal to go from inside the 5. I think it just looked different out in the middle of the field. It was what many have long suggested: why don’t we use those great 2-point plays to pick up a 3rd and short?


That reminds me B2B, it was that 2 point offense and the scheming of players to get open which made me a big fan of Fitchner and was one of the things that made me think he would be a great OC.

What I love with Fitchner/Ben is that they seem very open to looking at what the rest of the NFL is doing and incorporating it into the offense. Truly mind numbing to me to think what the past few seasons would have been like had we moved on from Haley sooner, how much further evolved this offense would be. You look at the changes, the new wrinkles after just half a season, imagine what they will have done after a full season, and then a full offseason to fine tune and add to it!! I understand why Ben wants to play 5 more years, it must have felt like he was shackled with Haley, as if he were under house arrest with an ankle monitor. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Finchtner
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:49 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
.... I understand why Ben wants to play 5 more years, it must have felt like he was shackled with Haley, as if he were under house arrest with an ankle monitor. :lol:


Also think he knew he had the green light to be more mobile and some sandlot this year, so he whipped his ass into shape.

Arians wasn't very good, either. Although Ben liked the style of play, Arians was not good at scheming people open or working in the run, either.

I imagine if we still had Haley we'd be scratching our heads wondering why we were in the bottom half of the league in points. Remember, Haley also didn't like the middle of the field. Truly a low reward offense without really lowering the risk.

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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Finchtner
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:21 am 
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Scunge wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
They’ve run that exact same play multiple times, often in goal to go from inside the 5. I think it just looked different out in the middle of the field. It was what many have long suggested: why don’t we use those great 2-point plays to pick up a 3rd and short?


That reminds me B2B, it was that 2 point offense and the scheming of players to get open which made me a big fan of Fitchner and was one of the things that made me think he would be a great OC.

What I love with Fitchner/Ben is that they seem very open to looking at what the rest of the NFL is doing and incorporating it into the offense. Truly mind numbing to me to think what the past few seasons would have been like had we moved on from Haley sooner, how much further evolved this offense would be. You look at the changes, the new wrinkles after just half a season, imagine what they will have done after a full season, and then a full offseason to fine tune and add to it!! I understand why Ben wants to play 5 more years, it must have felt like he was shackled with Haley, as if he were under house arrest with an ankle monitor. :lol:


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:43 am 
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You all do know that the 2-pt conversions reverted to the mean? And that we NEVER ran the ball for a single 2-pt conversion?

I'm not ready to crown his ass just yet....

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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:07 am 
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TE output surpassed last year's total. Yes, healthy McDonald, but James has almost equaled his.


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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:14 am 
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Scunge,
I love how you undercover layers and get into the bowels of things. Lots of substance to back up your arguments.


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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:42 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
You all do know that the 2-pt conversions reverted to the mean? And that we NEVER ran the ball for a single 2-pt conversion?

I'm not ready to crown his ass just yet....


But we sure run the ball now in the regular offense...

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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Finchtner
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
What I am loving about this offense right now, and specifically with Randy, is that we are now beginning to scheme 'open' players. This was my biggest issue with Haley. Fitchner is really starting to put it all together. I love that Switz, Nix and Samuels were being used to get important catches at times during drives.

This was really missing with Haley, he just over relied on Brown and Bell. For all of the talk about Bell being gone, how this offense may be better with him paired with Conner, I am of the thought that perhaps this offense does not improve as it has if Bell had signed his tender and showed up day one.

I think Fitchner was able to put his stamp on this offense without Bell, without the enamor, the appeal of Bell.
I think Haley got drunk on Bell and Brown and it made him lazy as an OC, as a play caller and designer of the offense.

Fitchner actually had a great weight lifted off of his shoulders with Bell not being there in my opinion. With Bell not there the other players on offense were able to get chances, opportunities that they might otherwise not have gotten. The TEs and how they have been playing, how they are legitimate threats in the passing game, would they be playing like that if Bell was taking targets away from them??

Last season Bell was targeted 106 times and produced just 85 catches for 655 yards, a 7.7 avg and 2 TDs. Teams wanted the Steelers to WASTE their time throwing to Bell. All of those targets, 106 passes and it produced just 31 first downs and just 2 TDs. Meanwhile this season, a lot of those excessive targets that would have gone to Bell have been spread around and produced more first downs, more yards per catch and more TDs. Rosie Nix has been targeted 4 times and produced 3 catches for 36 yards, a 12.0 yard average and 2 of those went for first downs. That is just one small example but you take Nix, Switz, Samuels, Conner, James, McDonald and even Grimble, you take all of those players taking advantage of the targets that normally would have gone to Bell, and poof, just like that the offense is scoring more TDs.

That was the lie of Lev Bell for me, all of those targets, all of those touches and he simply was not producing touchdowns.


Yes it was probably easier for Fichtner to put his stamp on this offense without Bell, for multiple reasons.

Agree on the lie of Bell. He was always overrated, even in his career best 2014 season. He reminded us of Faulk and we wanted him to be Faulk, but he was never on Faulk's level.

Remove Bell, add Conner = net gain. Conner > 2017 Bell at scoring TD's, runs over 20 yards, receptions over 20 yds, Y/R. Conner hits the RZ hole faster, gets thru the RZ hole faster, and is better at knifing thru defenders in the RZ.

I am so glad I don't have to watch slow motion Molasses anymore. I don't think there is any doubt our OL would rather block for the quicker burst hit the hole get thru the hole Conner.

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Up by 4, pull the plug. Fire Mike Tomlin.


Last edited by Havoc on Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:13 pm 
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It's no secret that 3rd down efficiency has dramatically improved during the win streak. It seems that Fichtner has done the impossible and guided Ben and the offense to get first downs rather than force shots downfield.

I'm certain that there are times to take a 3rd and short chance on single coverage on Antonio Brown - but not every single time, and maybe not given the situation. Perhaps its more playcalling where plays are designed specifically to open up a window for a 4,5,6 yard game - good enough for the first down.

The benefits are multi fold, tire out the defense with more possession, save your defense with more possession, make the defenses worry about more looks for later in the game.

it also is allowing other players to contribute as we use a guy like Switzer where he's more productive in moving the chains. I'm also seeing more use of Conner in a check down role - which boggles my mind that Bell wasn't used more than way as a scheme. Getting that guy the ball in space should have been a focus of this offense rather than an afterthought.

Todd Haley had a Bugatti and drove it backwards with his knees while he watched his wife get plowed in the rear view mirror. Fichtner is starting to show what this offense can do over 60 minutes in a game.


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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:15 pm 
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I like Conner... but lets not act like Bell wasn't a good back.

I think Conner has proven he can do many of the things Bell could do and that the distance between them might not have been as much as previously thought.

But I think what we are seeing this year is mostly due to the difference in offensive coordinators as opposed to the running backs.


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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:23 pm 
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Bell last year was a very good player. In his prime he was a great back, but not on Faulk's level, not on LT's level.

Let's not pretend that Conner's different skillset doesn't matter. It does.

Conner is better in space than 2017 Bell, and that is better for this offense. I also think Conner's ability to knife thru defenders helps him in the thick RZ soup.

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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:36 pm 
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Quote:
I think Fitchner was able to put his stamp on this offense without Bell, without the enamor, the appeal of Bell. I think Haley got drunk on Bell and Brown and it made him lazy as an OC, as a play caller and designer of the offense.


You come up with some interesting theories and you are perhaps the most insightful poster on this board. But Haley was simple and imaginative with or without Bell. In Super Bowl 43, it was like his team was in a stupor until the second half. The play-calling was rather tame. And that was with Kurt Warner, Larry Fitzgerald, and Anquan Boldin. And we have all seen his years with the Steelers. We can more fully examine your theory by revisiting the 2012 season with the Steelers - before Bell arrived.

Most recently, Hue Jackson talked about getting involved with the offense in Cleveland with Haley there so he could mold the offense to fit Mayfield more.

Haley was not a bum, but he was certainly vanilla.


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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Profootballfocus has Randy Fichtner as the highest rated offensive play-caller through ten weeks.


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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:30 pm 
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ToddHaleysNineIron wrote:
I like Conner... but lets not act like Bell wasn't a good back.

I think Conner has proven he can do many of the things Bell could do and that the distance between them might not have been as much as previously thought.

But I think what we are seeing this year is mostly due to the difference in offensive coordinators as opposed to the running backs.


Sure pal.

Do yourself a favor and read Havoc’s post a couple before yours.


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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:57 pm 
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Hinestuff wrote:
ToddHaleysNineIron wrote:
I like Conner... but lets not act like Bell wasn't a good back.

I think Conner has proven he can do many of the things Bell could do and that the distance between them might not have been as much as previously thought.

But I think what we are seeing this year is mostly due to the difference in offensive coordinators as opposed to the running backs.


Sure pal.

Do yourself a favor and read Havoc’s post a couple before yours.


Again, I'm open to the argument that Conner may be a better back than Bell is right now, but I don't think ti would be by much. I think it's the easy thing to shit on Bell for how he's handled this, but he's still a very good back in the NFL. Now if you want to argue and say "Well it was his O-line that made him great"... sure I can listen.. but I think it's silly to sit here and say Bell sucks. All things being equal, nobody here would have taken Conner over Bell to start this season if they had a choice.

Personally I still feel the difference in this offense is more of the difference in Fichtner scheming short first down plays that are quick and easy instead of worrying about 1 on 1 coverage downfield on 3rd and short versus the difference Conner brings to the table over Bell. It's very possible Conner is better than Bell AND that Fichtner is better than Haley... I just think the difference between Fichtner and Haley is having more of an impact than the difference between Conner and Bell.


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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:17 pm 
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ToddHaleysNineIron wrote:
All things being equal, nobody here would have taken Conner over Bell to start this season if they had a choice.
If you want to make things equal, make that decision next summer. IOW, nobody knew what conner could do, so the choice would have been easy. Now that we all know what conner brings to the table, would the choice be easy?

I say yes. Take conner. For the reasons scunge and havoc have outlined. Bell in overrated, and his success is due to munchak and a very good o line. That has been proven. That's not to say Bell isn't a good back, but he's had two injuries, has lost explosiveness, always lacked the speed to score from over 20 yards, and has lots 'o' miles on him.

Give conner two full years as a starter and ask yourself the same question.

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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:44 pm 
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Starting this current season, I think everyone would have wanted bell to show up and be the guy who gets the majority of snaps.

After what we’ve seen, sure Conner is probably the choice.

But I still say the difference of Fich and Haley is the biggest reason for the success of the offense. It’s not reliant on a 250 yard day by Antonio or a 125 yard day by bell . It’s spread out, converts on 3rd downs, and I think that’s making a big difference in the red zone


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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:20 pm 
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I think many know I have been on record of being critical of Bell. This isn't just something that I started because he did not show up this year. I have been critical of Bell for a number of years.

I pointed out 3 years ago when DeAngelo Williams was subbing in for Bell how the offense seemed to be more efficient, was scoring more points without Bell. It left me scratching my head. How was that possible??

Sure, many can argue that what Conner is doing this season is because of a change in Fitchner over Haley. But how was DeAngelo Williams able to have great production, for the offense to not miss a beat, with Haley as his offensive coordinator??

We had not just one RB but two RBs in Conner and Williams where the offense is scoring more points irregardless of whether or not it is Haley or Fitchner running the offense.

You look back at that 2015 season by Williams, he started 10 games, and had 907 yards rushing, 11 TDs and caught 40 passes on 47 targets, good for 9.2 yards a catch. What if Bell hadn't taken 6 starts away from DeAngelo that year?? Bell's best season for TDs was 11, but if Williams had started all year he may very well have had what, 18 touchdowns??

I remember asking myself why is the offense averaging 29 points a game with Williams as the starter?? Williams started 14 games in 2015+2016 and the offense averaged 29.2 points per game. In 2015 alone, in those 10 starts the offense averaged 32 points per game with Williams as the starter and in those other 6 games that year with Bell as the starter the offense averaged a paltry 17 points per game. And this was with Haley as the OC. Bell and Williams running behind the same O-line so that wasn't it. What was it, why the difference?? Why was the offense underachieving with Bell as the starter???

My conclusion is that Bell was the reason, plain and simple. At the end of the day, his patient style, the excessive feeding of the ball does nothing but create a sham of a RB, all style and very little substance.Substance to me is scoring touchdowns, scoring points as an offense. To be the focal point of the offense and to be given so many touches and not produce?

Be it Haley or Fitchner, a more traditional RB, less concerned with style points, less concerned with meaningless stats and yardage bullshit, is the more productive player in this offense.

We saw it with Williams and we have seen it now with Conner. Does not matter one iota who the OC was, Bell was the issue. That is my story and I am sticking to it!

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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:58 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
I think many know I have been on record of being critical of Bell. This isn't just something that I started because he did not show up this year. I have been critical of Bell for a number of years.

I pointed out 3 years ago when DeAngelo Williams was subbing in for Bell how the offense seemed to be more efficient, was scoring more points without Bell. It left me scratching my head. How was that possible??

Sure, many can argue that what Conner is doing this season is because of a change in Fitchner over Haley. But how was DeAngelo Williams able to have great production, for the offense to not miss a beat, with Haley as his offensive coordinator??

We had not just one RB but two RBs in Conner and Williams where the offense is scoring more points irregardless of whether or not it is Haley or Fitchner running the offense.

You look back at that 2015 season by Williams, he started 10 games, and had 907 yards rushing, 11 TDs and caught 40 passes on 47 targets, good for 9.2 yards a catch. What if Bell hadn't taken 6 starts away from DeAngelo that year?? Bell's best season for TDs was 11, but if Williams had started all year he may very well have had what, 18 touchdowns??

I remember asking myself why is the offense averaging 29 points a game with Williams as the starter?? Williams started 14 games in 2015+2016 and the offense averaged 29.2 points per game. In 2015 alone, in those 10 starts the offense averaged 32 points per game with Williams as the starter and in those other 6 games that year with Bell as the starter the offense averaged a paltry 17 points per game. And this was with Haley as the OC. Bell and Williams running behind the same O-line so that wasn't it. What was it, why the difference?? Why was the offense underachieving with Bell as the starter???

My conclusion is that Bell was the reason, plain and simple. At the end of the day, his patient style, the excessive feeding of the ball does nothing but create a sham of a RB, all style and very little substance.Substance to me is scoring touchdowns, scoring points as an offense. To be the focal point of the offense and to be given so many touches and not produce?

Be it Haley or Fitchner, a more traditional RB, less concerned with style points, less concerned with meaningless stats and yardage bullshit, is the more productive player in this offense.

We saw it with Williams and we have seen it now with Conner. Does not matter one iota who the OC was, Bell was the issue. That is my story and I am sticking to it!

There's still room to blame Haley because we haven't seen what the offense looks like with Bell at RB and Fich at OC. You've complained (rightly) often enough that under Haley, we seemed to need to force feed the ball to the stars, AB and Bell. We've seen AB this year throw a hissy because the ball's not being forced to him, suggesting that we are not force feeding stars anymore. If Bell was here under Fich, he might not get force fed either, and the more diverse offense might result in higher scoring with Bell as the RB.

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 Post subject: Re: Randy Fucking Fichtner
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:02 am 
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No need to start a fresh thread for this article.

https://www.tampabay.com/ap/sports/streaking-steelers-relying-on-red-hot-red-zone-offense-ap_sportsf4bc1f9b21274fc79dc3d8b4caeb3b3c

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Streaking Steelers relying on red-hot red zone offense
Published: November 15, 2018

PITTSBURGH (AP) — Pittsburgh Steelers offensive coordinator Randy Fichtner issues a warning to his wide receivers and tight ends if they happen to get tackled at the 1-yard line.

"There's a chance you might not get it again," Fichtner said. "When you get down there, you better make it count."

Fichtner isn't kidding. The first-year play-caller understands the abundance of options he has while guiding one of the league's most potent offenses. Yet he's also installed a bit of an old-school approach when the Steelers get close to the end zone. More runs. Fewer passes. More big guys doing what big guys do best: pushing players in opposing jerseys out of the way.


The results have been startling. Pittsburgh has turned a league-high 78 percent (22 of 28) of its red zone opportunities into touchdown celebrations, one of the main reasons the streaking Steelers (6-2-1) are on pace to set a franchise record in points.

It's a stark departure from Todd Haley's productive if occasionally volatile six-year tenure as offensive coordinator, when Pittsburgh had no trouble piling up yards but would often bog down with the goal line in sight. The Steelers finished between 12th and 18th in red zone efficiency during Haley's run, one of the reasons the team opted to go in another direction in the offseason when it fired him and replaced him with Fichtner.

Fichtner was given a mandate from ownership to put up more points, and Fichtner has taken a decidedly collaborative approach to making it happen, whether if it's giving quarterback Ben Roethlisberger more freedom calling plays or picking the brain of offensive line coach Mike Munchak and assistant Shaun Sarrett to see what might work best when space gets tight.

"Coach Randy has been really good in the sense that 'Hey, Munch, what do you want to do? What's best in this situation?'" left guard Ramon Foster said. "We all know that Munch is a guy that understands and knows the run. He and Randy have been putting us in really good position to run the ball in too. I say their communication is really high."

Having a running back who seems to embrace the dirty work required near the end zone helps. James Conner set an Atlantic Coast Conference record for touchdowns during his remarkable college career at Pittsburgh. He moved next door after the Steelers drafted him in the third round of the 2017 draft and was thrust into the starter's roll when two-time All-Pro Le'Veon Bell decided to sit out the season rather than sign his one-year franchise tender.

All Conner has done in his first nine games is score 11 touchdowns, 10 of them on the ground and seven of them on runs from inside the opponent 5. Bell never scored more than nine rushing touchdowns in a season and scored 18 rushing touchdowns total on carries inside the 5 during his five seasons with the Steelers.

The issue for Bell wasn't necessarily production but opportunities. Bell never had more than seven rushing attempts inside the 5 in a single season. Conner already has 11. Roethlisberger ranked second in the NFL in red zone pass attempts inside the 10 in 2017. He's 15th this season because rather than throw it, he's turning around to hand it off.

"I think it's been a shift," wide receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey said. "When you have a new offensive coordinator he's going to emphasize some things that he feels like needs to change. I think the past 3-4 years we haven't been great in the red zone. So having that run element has been good but also having (tight end) Vance (McDonald) healthy, having others guys healthy allows us to expand more and do different things and get teams in different personnel so we can run the ball."

And still throw it when necessary. Roethlisberger threw five touchdowns to five different receivers in last week's 52-21 dismantling of Carolina, three of them coming from 12 yards or less.

"We got a lot of guys that can make plays in this offense and coach Randy is finding a way to get that done," Foster said. "Whether it's him calling or whether it's Ben calling, we're finding a way to get it done."

Even if finding a way means simply looking at the talent at your disposal and try to avoid the temptation to get cute.

"Sometimes you overthink it," Heyward-Bey said. "Sometimes you're trying to game plan, 'Oh this worked for another team, so let's try it.' Sometimes you've just got to play hard-nosed football and I think that's what we've been trying to do. We throw a couple tricks here and there, but we're just going to try and come downhill and try to score."

NOTES: RT Marcus Gilbert (knee) and DE Stephon Tuitt (elbow) did not practice on Thursday. ... Conner (concussion) and Roethlisberger (coach's decision) did practice.


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FORUM RULES --- PRIVACY POLICY




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