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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:15 pm 
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IIED is marginally stronger, but it'll still get tossed because it doesn't come anywhere close to the level needed for that, nor is there any knowledge that his actions would result in emotional distress to these people.


Knowledge that his actions would result in emotional distress is not an element of IIED in Florida.


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:18 pm 
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Why should any of it have to be proven? Thought we were trying to get rid of due process in this country.


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:19 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
Well if he had $80,000 stolen then a little leeway is expected I would imagine.


according to the article, he thought he was being accused of stealing 80k - not that he had 80k stolen from him.

He was yelling at security guards in front of the cops and threw a tantrum.


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:25 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
ENTERTAINED


This is the only reason any of you watch sports, if there's another name it?


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
I practice insurance defense litigation. I would tell my client to get out his checkbook.


Of course, because it'll be cheaper to pay to make this go away than to pay for lawyers, not because it's meritorious.

Quote:

I'll paste this again for ease of reference:

Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress:

(1) the defendant must act intentionally or recklessly;
(2) the defendant's conduct must be extreme and outrageous; and
(3) the conduct must be the cause
(4) of severe emotional distress.

The first two elements are air tight. He threw furniture from the 14th story of a building. Reckless at best, and extreme and outrageous by any definition. In IIED cases, you look at the state of mind of the plaintiff and give weight to toddlers, small children, and those with diminished capacity. Maybe this wouldn't have caused severe emotional distress in an adult, but it's completely feasible that it would in a toddler. They've alleged that the kid is having nightmares and mental breakdowns. I know it's difficult to prove the elements of IIED, but I think this is pretty spot on.


It's not just intentionally or recklessly acting. It's acting with the intent to cause severe emotional distress or in reckless disregard of the high probability of causing such distress. It was clearly not the former. The latter is debatable. You might know of the possibility of hitting someone, but do you really know it would seriously emotionally distress someone -- to the point no reasonable person could be expected to endure it -- if something you throw lands next to them? I don't think you get a heightened susceptibility argument unless defendant had reason to know of the heightened susceptibility, but I'm not about to boot up Lexis on that point :lol:

Quote:
Assault:

(1) The act was intended to cause apprehension of harmful or offensive contact; and
(2) The act indeed caused apprehension in the victim that harmful or offensive contact would occur.

The intent element is the only question here. And I would argue that intent can be inferred by his conduct.


You're confusing intent and recklessness. Again, if this is assault, so is cutting someone off on the road. You can infer that intended to throw the items off the balcony. You cannot infer that he intended to cause apprehension of harmful or offensive contact with the Plaintiffs.

Edit:

Quote:
Knowledge that his actions would result in emotional distress is not an element of IIED in Florida.


Yes it is, unless it has changed since 2014. You actually made me open up Lexis to double check like I said I wouldn't. (1) The wrongdoer's conduct was intentional or reckless, that is, he intended his behavior when he knew or should have known that emotional distress would likely result.

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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:48 pm 
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I am also not going to open Lexis. :lol:

This is why we have lawyers, judges, and juries — there are arguments to be made on both sides. And we know this won’t make it to summary judgment, let alone trial. My take is that the assault claim is iffy, but IIED is solid. His conduct was reckless, extreme and outrageous, and caused emotional distress in a toddler. I’ll put it this way — I don’t know a plaintiff’s attorney that wouldn’t take this case and I don’t know a defense attorney that wouldn’t settle.

And believe it or not, I do actually litigate many cases to trial! A lot of the insurance companies that hire me will litigate meritless claims to completion as a policy decision, rather than settling to avoid costs.

Anyway, good talk. I’ve been so tempted to drop the lawyer card on many occasions, but I’ve never felt good doing it.


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:56 pm 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
I am also not going to open Lexis. :lol:

This is why we have lawyers, judges, and juries — there are arguments to be made on both sides. And we know this won’t make it to summary judgment, let alone trial. My take is that the assault claim is iffy, but IIED is solid. His conduct was reckless, extreme and outrageous, and caused emotional distress in a toddler. I’ll put it this way — I don’t know a plaintiff’s attorney that wouldn’t take this case and I don’t know a defense attorney that wouldn’t settle.

And believe it or not, I do actually litigate many cases to trial! A lot of the insurance companies that hire me will litigate meritless claims to completion as a policy decision, rather than settling to avoid costs.

Anyway, good talk. I’ve been so tempted to drop the lawyer card on many occasions, but I’ve never felt good doing it.


I do it when people chime in with absolutes about the law, especially directly to me, and I'm like...hold up...I paid a lot of money to actually learn this, you don't get to just Google something and declare it reality!

Happens on Reddit a lot. Or with certain plaintiffs (I no longer represent serial pro-se litigants).

I would take this case, but not because I think I'm going to win, but because I know the defendant would pay :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:19 pm 
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Nick79 wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
ENTERTAINED


This is the only reason any of you watch sports, if there's another name it?


It’s not the fact you like to be entertained Nick that leads people to get on your case.

It’s the fact you have no moral fiber.


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:21 pm 
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Couple more things... I was never coming at you. I enjoy the debate.

I never used absolutes. I said he had an excellent case. An excellent case does not always mean meeting the elements of every claim (in fact, in my experience, it's difficult and rare to find any case that meets every element of every claim). With a toddler plaintiff and an entitled athlete defendant throwing furniture off his 14th floor balcony, you can make a pretty strong argument for both assault and IIED. IIED would survive summary judgment and assault is a toss up. If I'm evaluating a case with two claims, and they've got the elements for 1.5 of them, my position is that, that's a pretty strong case. The sympathetic plaintiff and villainous defendant are the icing on the cake.


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:42 pm 
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What's the part about a stolen handgun during a robbery. Was that at this apartment? Or a totally different episode that I missed?


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:57 pm 
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Location: Sunny Delaware (but the murdery part)
Nick79 wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
ENTERTAINED


This is the only reason any of you watch sports, if there's another name it?


Civic pride.


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:09 pm 
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Nick79 wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
ENTERTAINED


This is the only reason any of you watch sports, if there's another name it?

I enjoy the pain and lately I'm over-joyed.


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:55 pm 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
Couple more things... I was never coming at you. I enjoy the debate.

I never used absolutes. I said he had an excellent case. An excellent case does not always mean meeting the elements of every claim (in fact, in my experience, it's difficult and rare to find any case that meets every element of every claim). With a toddler plaintiff and an entitled athlete defendant throwing furniture off his 14th floor balcony, you can make a pretty strong argument for both assault and IIED. IIED would survive summary judgment and assault is a toss up. If I'm evaluating a case with two claims, and they've got the elements for 1.5 of them, my position is that, that's a pretty strong case. The sympathetic plaintiff and villainous defendant are the icing on the cake.


I was speaking generally about it, not necessarily what you were doing. Sorry that was unclear.

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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:37 pm 
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I think the case will be negligent infliction of ED. He didn't intend to inflict it but his negligent action resulted in it. I don't think he can wriggle off the hook on not intentionally wanting to harm anyone. Throwing shit out an apartment window from the fourteenth floor to a place people walk ... resulting harm is quite foreseeable. Proximate cause and all that stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:55 pm 
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Gonzo wrote:
I think the case will be negligent infliction of ED. He didn't intend to inflict it but his negligent action resulted in it. I don't think he can wriggle off the hook on not intentionally wanting to harm anyone. Throwing shit out an apartment window from the fourteenth floor to a place people walk ... resulting harm is quite foreseeable. Proximate cause and all that stuff.


NIED requires physically injury to someone, generally. If it hit the kid, the dad could have successfully sued for nied, for example.

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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:12 am 
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thanks, guys

honestly enjoyed reading the legal nerdout / lawyer dick-waving

sincerely

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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:38 am 
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Ice wrote:
Nick79 wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
ENTERTAINED


This is the only reason any of you watch sports, if there's another name it?


Civic pride.

I guess you wouldn't watch NFL if you lived in Cleveland then?

I haven't lived in Pittsburgh since 1991, so it can't really be about "civic pride" for me.

Steelers football is equivalent to say a rock group, like I love The Who, I've seen them in concert twice, it was like going to a Steelers game, drank some beers, went inside and was entertained by the show, I've seen them on video and on TV, similar to watching a Steelers game, I loved it the year they played halftime at the Super Bowl, even though they where well past their prime.

It's an entertainment option. Some people might go to a movie on Sunday afternoon, I might go to a movie on Sunday afternoon, if the Steelers aren't on, they are my favorite TV SHOW. And yeah, there have been times when I DVRed the game and watched after it was over. Just like a TV Show.


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:40 am 
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955876 wrote:
Nick79 wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
ENTERTAINED


This is the only reason any of you watch sports, if there's another name it?


It’s not the fact you like to be entertained Nick that leads people to get on your case.

It’s the fact you have no moral fiber.


You mean like I'm supposed to care about what the characters on my TV Show did when they weren't on TV? I mean people watched Charlie Sheen's TV show, didn't they?


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:45 am 
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If he was throwing shit off the balcony to a populated area, and the cops were actually present while it was happening (which is reported) - then he got some good treatment by not being arrested on the spot. The police report seems to play it down. So either there is more to the story, or this got swept under the rug and now this dude wants AB to have some consequences.


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:37 am 
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I sill watch Charlie Sheen’s TV show Nick. It’s good humor. Humor that wouldn’t fly in today’s PC cryfest culture.

My comment was based on years of reading your post and comments. You’ve put plenty of evidence of who you are “on tape”...

Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:41 am 
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You know why you bring a lawyer to a knife fight?

So the other guy can just stab your lawyer.

(I’m also a lawyer).


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
thanks, guys

honestly enjoyed reading the legal nerdout / lawyer dick-waving

sincerely


As I said, I paid a lot of money to be able to lawyer dick wave, you better believe I'm gonna!

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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:38 pm 
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955876 wrote:
I sill watch Charlie Sheen’s TV show Nick. It’s good humor. Humor that wouldn’t fly in today’s PC cryfest culture.

My comment was based on years of reading your post and comments. You’ve put plenty of evidence of who you are “on tape”...

Cheers

Thanks! I'm proud of everything I've ever said!


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:20 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
thanks, guys

honestly enjoyed reading the legal nerdout / lawyer dick-waving

sincerely


I’d say you’ve dick waved about your masters degree, but I don’t even
know if that’s possible. Maybe just the tip?


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 Post subject: Re: TMZ----Antonio Brown sued for endangering toddler
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:36 pm 
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SteelKnife wrote:
As I said, I paid a lot of money to be able to lawyer dick wave, you better believe I'm gonna!


Hey, it was a complement - people with small dicks don't wave them around!

I enjoyed reading the discussion. I thought it was helpful knowing you guys were lawyers.

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