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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:58 pm 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
JC's vision is below average. Maybe that will improve with time, but for now JC is a good but not great back.


He's been a standout receiving.

I'm still undecided on him as a runner. I agree with what you said, but the first 4 games unfolded strangely. He's run well in 2 of the 3 games we got early leads in, so I think the jury is still out.

He and Bell would be a great 1-2 punch, but that will probably never happen.

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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:13 pm 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
KC wrote:
Havoc wrote:
I'm on board with Conner.

He's a stud receiving the football. Has not even had one bobble that I can remember... fantastic hands, solid as a rock.

18.8 Y/R long of 29

30 yd run

Conner gives us splash plays that Bell cannot do. I do not want to see that splash removed from the offense.

I do not believe we would have scored more points with Molasses at RB today and we might not have scored as many.


Conner had the massive, game altering fumble in week one.

Probably tired at the time from being overworked in his first game, but he coughed it up inside his own 20 yard line and one play later, our 14 point lead was 7.

I believe he did have a bobble yesterday (perhaps it was someone else?) that ended up going out of bounds. I'm pretty sure it was Conner and I was scared shitless he was going to fumble the ball through the endzone for a touchback.

If you mean no bobbles as a receiver, then I apologize.

I have to admit, Conner has been better than expected but I think we forget how good Bell is.

There's a reason he's considered among the best backs in the NFL. I wish he was more of a threat to take it to the house on any given play, but Bell is special.


I'm with KC on this one...This thread popped up because JC had a big game. What about three out of five games this year?

JC's vision is below average. Maybe that will improve with time, but for now JC is a good but not great back.

I disagree about his lack of production in 3 of the 5 games this year. In those 3 games he touched the ball 12, 20 and 13 times. In the 2 games he's been Bell's equal, he's touched it 36 and 25 times...just like Bell did last year whenever he had a big game. If the game unfolds in a way he can get a lot of touches (Bell average something like 35 touches a game last year) then he's shown he can produce just as well as Bell, with more explosive plays to boot.


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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:47 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
Definitely to work on his craft and not to become a Bell clone. I think I have seen him bust through a play or two when he could have waited for a block. It might go against his style to wait or pause. Maybe he will need to get further in the backfield to allow for timing. When you watch the replays with him, I believe he has incredible vision. He is seeing everything and it just so happens he has been shot out of a cannon too. To Scunge’s point he is on the cusp of busting some big runs from rushing or passing...they are coming.

We won today with no focus on the TE. We have 3 groups that we can really shift the offense towards. Great receivers, great feature back and great TE group (when healthy); so this offense can do whatever the hell it wants. Only thing stopping it will be coaching, injuries, or messing with Bell.

Connor may have to deal with his second cancer when Bell gets back.

I just can’t imagine starting Bell over JC if we are on a hot streak, why waste the money when we need stars on D.

Don’t forget the OK State example. Thurman Thomas was one fine back coming out of college and went on to have an amazing NFL career for Buffalo...4 Superbowls. His Cowboy back-up was????? Barry Sanders.

Maybe Bell is Thomas


Sanders was a bit introverted coming out of HS and was told by OU (switzer) that he would start immediately but OSU told him that Thomas was the starter and that fit with what Barry wanted at the time better.


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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:07 pm 
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ha ha

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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:16 pm 
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https://twitter.com/pff_steelers/status/1049362176664854529?s=21

Quote:
Most missed tackles forced as a runner and a receiver through the first 5 weeks this season:

James Conner - 32
Saquon Barkley - 27
Kareem Hunt - 26
Lynch, Gordon, McCaffrey - 23

@JamesConner_ is one hard man to bring down! #Steelers


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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:12 am 
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i think there's a fair point to be made about Conner's lack of vision, general lack of NFL polish as compared to Bell, etc.; the stuff the podcast crew has been (correctly) harping on for weeks

he strikes me as a guy who if granted the starting role is always going to impress one week and get completely stonewalled the next, at least as a rusher (though he's shown he can still contribute as a pass-catcher even in those games)
if you're looking for a consistent 4 ypc and 100-yard games, Bell is probably your guy

but in today's NFL i'd gladly trade that consistency for the big-play potential Conner gives you
our offense is completely dead in the water the other day without Conner's 'chunk plays'
not just the 30-yard run that's a near-impossibility for Bell at this point, but the 6-8 yard carries on first down, the conversion on the ridiculous 3rd-and-long screen call, etc.

he's so clearly the better option in short yardage situations that i think there's a wing and a prayer we continue to use him in that role, but the other stuff is essentially gone with Bell's return and we know it

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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:45 am 
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Chidi Iwuoma wrote:
but in today's NFL i'd gladly trade that consistency for the big-play potential Conner gives you
our offense is completely dead in the water the other day without Conner's 'chunk plays'
not just the 30-yard run that's a near-impossibility for Bell at this point, but the 6-8 yard carries on first down, the conversion on the ridiculous 3rd-and-long screen call, etc.


Add to that the leap over the line for the TD. I didn't think that was in his tool bag.


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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:30 am 
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Bell's 2017 season, showing some of his worst yards per carry games.

10 carries 32 yards 3.20 avg
27 carries 87 yards, 3.22 avg
15 carries 47 yards, 3.13 avg
35 carries 134 yards, 3.83 avg
25 carries 76 yards, 3.04 avg
26 carries 80 yards, 3.08 avg
12 carries 46 yards, 3.83 avg
13 carries 48 yards, 3.69 avg

Bell's 2017 season, showing some of his worst yards per catch games.

3 catches for 15 yards, 5.0 avg
4 catches for 4 yards, 1.0 avg
10 catches for 46 yards, 4.6 avg
3 catches for 12 yards, 4.0 avg
2 catches for 5 yards, 2.5 avg
5 catches for 32 yards, 6.4 avg
9 catches for 57 yards, 6.33 avg
5 catches for 28 yards, 5.6 avg

Now that is 8 games showing him with a pretty awful yards per carry, and that is 8 games where he had equally awful yards per catch.

This narrative that somehow Bell has more dominant games, or is more even keeled than James Conner looks to be false to me.

Some of those games, yikes, 4 catches for 4 yards? A 1 yard average??

Conner is averaging 10.9 yards a catch, Bell averaged 7.7 yards per catch last season. Conner is averaging more than 3.2 yards per catch over Bell.

You look at the games last season against Detroit and Indy, they kept giving carries to Bell, did not abandon the run, and he still only averaged 3.04 yards, 3.08 yards. Don't tell me that Bell is so consistent from game to game, no, he is not. That same game against Detroit he had 2 catches for 5 yards, a 2.5 yard average.

In 2016 these are some of Bell's yards per carry games:

20 carries for 66 yards, 3.3 avg
21 carries for 81 yards, 3.86 avg
14 carries for 32 yards, 2.29 avg
17 carries for 57 yards, 3.35 avg

Those last 3 games I listed all came in a 3 week period, all losses, and yes, we fell behind, felt the need to abandon the run and pass more, how is that any different than what Conner was faced with in games 2-4 this season? Really no difference at all.

Look, I think Bell coming back will be good for the offense in that Conner can stay fresh and maintain his physical running style. If he were to play the rest of the season like he did against Atlanta he might find himself wore down at the end of the season. I am all for Bell coming in and playing some, I don't know if I just give him his starting job back.

I think it is dubious to think he is going to be able to step on the field and not be rusty and out of sync. Happened last season and now he has a much longer layoff working against him.

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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:32 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
That near fumble was another great play by the DB. If you watch it in slow motion, I think JC has awareness of where everyone is on the field. The DB whiffs on JC because he lifts his arm like a matador to prevent a fumble from a smashed helmet to forearm most likely, then he puts his arm down for more ball security and the DB because of his whiff does this back hand flail and miraculously strikes the ball. That man should have been out of the equation! JC will enter that into the vault. .

Did I see a different play? JC had his helmet yanked forward by Riley right before Kazee takes a shot at it. JC had just stiff-armed Riley and was turned toward the sideline. He was beginning to turn back towards the endzone as the ball got hit. I credit the fumble more to the surprise of his helmet being yanked than anything.

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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:36 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
Bell's 2017 season, showing some of his worst yards per carry games.

Look, I think Bell coming back will be good for the offense in that Conner can stay fresh and maintain his physical running style. If he were to play the rest of the season like he did against Atlanta he might find himself wore down at the end of the season. I am all for Bell coming in and playing some, I don't know if I just give him his starting job back.

I think it is dubious to think he is going to be able to step on the field and not be rusty and out of sync. Happened last season and now he has a much longer layoff working against him.


I think that it's almost guaranteed that Bell will come in rusty and out of sync. As you pointed out, it happened last year, and this year's holdout has been much longer. Judging from his wave runner video he doesn't look to be in great shape. Plus there's a new OC, so there are almost certainly new wrinkles (at least) the Bell will need to learn. Barring injury to Conner, I'd rather Bell not show up this year. Chances are he'd be more of a distraction and hindrance than a positive.


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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:51 pm 
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W&M_Steeler wrote:
Scunge wrote:
Bell's 2017 season, showing some of his worst yards per carry games.

Look, I think Bell coming back will be good for the offense in that Conner can stay fresh and maintain his physical running style. If he were to play the rest of the season like he did against Atlanta he might find himself wore down at the end of the season. I am all for Bell coming in and playing some, I don't know if I just give him his starting job back.

I think it is dubious to think he is going to be able to step on the field and not be rusty and out of sync. Happened last season and now he has a much longer layoff working against him.


I think that it's almost guaranteed that Bell will come in rusty and out of sync. As you pointed out, it happened last year, and this year's holdout has been much longer. Judging from his wave runner video he doesn't look to be in great shape. Plus there's a new OC, so there are almost certainly new wrinkles (at least) the Bell will need to learn. Barring injury to Conner, I'd rather Bell not show up this year. Chances are he'd be more of a distraction and hindrance than a positive.

THIS

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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:52 pm 
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W&M_Steeler wrote:
Scunge wrote:
Bell's 2017 season, showing some of his worst yards per carry games.

Look, I think Bell coming back will be good for the offense in that Conner can stay fresh and maintain his physical running style. If he were to play the rest of the season like he did against Atlanta he might find himself wore down at the end of the season. I am all for Bell coming in and playing some, I don't know if I just give him his starting job back.

I think it is dubious to think he is going to be able to step on the field and not be rusty and out of sync. Happened last season and now he has a much longer layoff working against him.


I think that it's almost guaranteed that Bell will come in rusty and out of sync. As you pointed out, it happened last year, and this year's holdout has been much longer. Judging from his wave runner video he doesn't look to be in great shape. Plus there's a new OC, so there are almost certainly new wrinkles (at least) the Bell will need to learn. Barring injury to Conner, I'd rather Bell not show up this year. Chances are he'd be more of a distraction and hindrance than a positive.


Bell wants his workload limited.

He'll likely be James Conner's biggest fan (meaning: the more Conner plays, the less wear and tear on Bell's body.)

They will coexist just fine.

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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:43 pm 
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I have changed my mind in this topic
James Conner should be th starting rb even when bell comes back.
For a number of reasons
Chief of which in my mind is that this team desparatly needs some guys fighting for everything
I have little doubt Tomlin gives bell his job back but I wouldn't


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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Gonzo wrote:
I have changed my mind in this topic
James Conner should be th starting rb even when bell comes back.
For a number of reasons
Chief of which in my mind is that this team desparatly needs some guys fighting for everything
I have little doubt Tomlin gives bell his job back but I wouldn't


We'll likely need both to make a run this year.

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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:34 pm 
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KC wrote:
Gonzo wrote:
I have changed my mind in this topic
James Conner should be th starting rb even when bell comes back.
For a number of reasons
Chief of which in my mind is that this team desparatly needs some guys fighting for everything
I have little doubt Tomlin gives bell his job back but I wouldn't


We'll likely need both to make a run this year.


Exactly. I’m not totally convinced bell will ere play this year, but let all these teams get banged up to shit.

Do I want to see bell on fresh legs in week 12? Yeah

Make that hell yeah.

The news on bell is so hard to figure out. But near as I can decipher he is not pleased about the prospect of Steelers using the transition tag on him. And sounds like he may be willing to play this season so he can get to true FA with no strings or even resign with Steelers. I seriously think that’s a possibility now.

Any rate one of the top O players in the game today returns to the fold for the stretch you don’t look that gift horse in the mouth


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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:55 pm 
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And James Conner to me is like Jessie James or Ramon foster. You need value guys like these. There’s nothing wrong with guys like these.

But when James Conner is featured Steelers tie the browns. When lev bell is featured Steelers win out the season and clinch home playoff game.

Not knocking Conner the dude or his season. He clearly belongs and I hope he’s part of the team long term.

But let’s not confuse contributor to season defining player


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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:00 pm 
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When James Conner was featured, they beat the Falcons. Two of their non-losses featured Conner. Both their losses didn't.


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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:08 pm 
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it's still yggy wrote:
And James Conner to me is like Jessie James or Ramon foster. You need value guys like these. There’s nothing wrong with guys like these.

But when James Conner is featured Steelers tie the browns. When lev bell is featured Steelers win out the season and clinch home playoff game.

Not knocking Conner the dude or his season. He clearly belongs and I hope he’s part of the team long term.

But let’s not confuse contributor to season defining player



Maybe if we had a few more guys that gave a shit the steelers would have a season worthy of some definition in the last ten


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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:10 pm 
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Gonzo wrote:
it's still yggy wrote:
And James Conner to me is like Jessie James or Ramon foster. You need value guys like these. There’s nothing wrong with guys like these.

But when James Conner is featured Steelers tie the browns. When lev bell is featured Steelers win out the season and clinch home playoff game.

Not knocking Conner the dude or his season. He clearly belongs and I hope he’s part of the team long term.

But let’s not confuse contributor to season defining player



Maybe if we had a few more guys that gave a shit the steelers would have a season worthy of some definition in the last ten


Agreed.


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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:23 pm 
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it's still yggy wrote:
And James Conner to me is like Jessie James or Ramon foster. You need value guys like these. There’s nothing wrong with guys like these.

But when James Conner is featured Steelers tie the browns. When lev bell is featured Steelers win out the season and clinch home playoff game.

Not knocking Conner the dude or his season. He clearly belongs and I hope he’s part of the team long term.

But let’s not confuse contributor to season defining player


While Conner had a fumble in the Browns game I would say the fact that the QB was involved with another 5 turnovers is why you tie the browns. Also it is clear that Conner is a better football player than either James or Foster. That comparison is disingenuous.


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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:09 am 
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stillthere wrote:
it's still yggy wrote:
And James Conner to me is like Jessie James or Ramon foster. You need value guys like these. There’s nothing wrong with guys like these.

But when James Conner is featured Steelers tie the browns. When lev bell is featured Steelers win out the season and clinch home playoff game.

Not knocking Conner the dude or his season. He clearly belongs and I hope he’s part of the team long term.

But let’s not confuse contributor to season defining player


While Conner had a fumble in the Browns game I would say the fact that the QB was involved with another 5 turnovers is why you tie the browns. Also it is clear that Conner is a better football player than either James or Foster. That comparison is disingenuous.

Conner is not a better player than Foster, sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:10 am 
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B2B, yeah, comparing a player who has some 120 starts to a player who has started just 5 games, who is to say who is a better player??

Again, who is to say that Conner won't develop into a real good RB? Maybe he will end up being a better player than Foster as we look at him two years from now?

I think we shouldn't dismiss that Conner is probably a MORE Valuable player than Foster at this point. If Foster goes down we can just insert Finney and perhaps not really miss much. If Conner goes down? It is debatable if Ridley can do what Conner has done, especially as a receiver and probably as a pass blocker too.

In terms of Bell coming back I hope that they take Bell OFF the field on obvious passing situations. What? Is that laughter I hear? Making fun of my idea to take Bell off the field for Conner??

Yes, I am totally serious. Bell last year averaged 7.7 yards per catch. He had 85 catches and only produced 31 first downs, a 36.5% first down rate.

Conner this season is averaging 10.9 yards per catch, has 22 catches and has produced 10 first downs, a 45.5% first down rate. Lev Bell fans can suck it, Conner is the more effective pass catcher out of the backfield.

All of this nonsense that Bell is special as a pass catcher, that he is elite, what a joke. Defenses want the Steelers to throw to Bell, it means less first downs converted, less big plays. What Conner is doing this year proves it. Bell can't break tackles like Conner and his diminishing speed and quickness does not let him evade tacklers like he did in 2014.

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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:23 pm 
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I think quality teams love it when we focus on the run and run extension passing


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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:20 pm 
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Gonzo wrote:
I think quality teams love it when we focus on the run and run extension passing


With the exception of the Miami Dolphins and Kansas City Chefs in the playoffs the other year.


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 Post subject: Re: James Conner
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:16 am 
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For those of you who have facebook this link has some nice ground level camera angles of Conner vs the Falcons in wk 5. It is like 3 mins long.

https://www.facebook.com/steelers/videos/437342753461022/


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