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 Post subject: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:39 pm 
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The Steelers have a number of receivers who are tall. MACdonald, Jesse James, JuJu..... AB is not and I think Ben is having a harder time making adjustment. Before there were a number of Smurfs. Not so this year. Ben has been throwing high to take advantage of the height advantage of a lot of his receivers. And AB and Ben are not in synch.


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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:35 pm 
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Interesting theory.

Who do you think shot JFK?

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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
Interesting theory.

Who do you think shot JFK?
:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:31 pm 
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JJSS is 6’1”. Not sure that is considered to be that tall


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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:32 pm 
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I'm just laughing at this because who else remembers Ben, early in his career, wanting a "tall guy he doesn't have to throw down to"?

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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:57 pm 
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For whatever reason it is the outside WRs and the downfield throws that are messing with Ben's mind.

This game against Atlanta for example.

Ben Was 6 of 15 throwing to Brown and Washington. 40% completion rate.

To everybody else? Ben was 13 of 14, 93% completion rate.

I am having a hard time figuring that out. I wonder if Ben's elbow or arm is injured in some way and it is limiting his accuracy and touch on passes longer than say, 25 yards down the field??

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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:09 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
I'm just laughing at this because who else remembers Ben, early in his career, wanting a "tall guy he doesn't have to throw down to"?

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:46 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
Ben Was 6 of 15 throwing to Brown and Washington. 40% completion rate.

To everybody else? Ben was 13 of 14, 93% completion rate.


Or, off the top of my head, Ben was 6/13 to AB and 13/16 to everyone else.

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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:08 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
Interesting theory.

Who do you think shot JFK?

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:22 pm 
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No, Kodiak, I am putting my foot down on that, drawing a line in the sand. Those outside WR spots, occupied by Brown and Bryant last season and that have been occupied by Brown and Washington (and Hunter) is a real troubling issue.

This game Ben was a perfect 4 for 4 to JuJu, who lines up in the slot. Ben was a perfect 4 for 4 to Conner who is a RB. He was a perfect 2 for 2 to Jesse James who is a TE, was 1 to 1 to Switzer, another slot WR, was 1 to 1 to Grimble another TE. That is a perfect 12 for 12 right there. Ben missed one to McDonald, he was 1 of 2 to him. That makes 13 of 14, again, 93% completion rate.

That group of RBs/TEs/slot WRs are really a shorter passing game but the outside WRs? That can be much more involved down the field and this offense is sputtering, Ben is sputtering going to the WRs, those outside WRs.

Ben is now 35 of 66 throwing to Brown, 53%, and 5 of 13 going to Washington and 1 of 5 throwing to Hunter. Ben is 41 of 84 throwing to those outside WRs, that is 48.8%. I know Ben has thrown 4 INTs when throwing to Brown and didn't he throw a 5th interception while throwing to Hunter? Ben may have 6 TDs throwing to this trio but he also has 5 INTs and if you figure out his passer rating to just those outside WRs it comes out to a rating of 63. That is not going to get it done long term. It is a huge problem moving forward and needs to be fixed.

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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:33 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
No, Kodiak, I am putting my foot down on that, drawing a line in the sand. Those outside WR spots, occupied by Brown and Bryant last season and that have been occupied by Brown and Washington (and Hunter) is a real troubling issue.\


Nice work on the stats, but it's all really just AB. Washington is a rookie struggling to get separation, and DHB/Hunter are worse than jags.

JuJu moves around - you're pretending like he's all slot to help make your case and that simply isn't true. I will concede Ben has had no touch/accuracy on passes more than 20 yards in the air. Hopefully that bomb to AB turned the corner (and you could see the relief finally cascade off Ben).

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Last edited by Kodiak on Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:34 pm 
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ben forcing throws to a blanketed brown cost them before half. maddening.


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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:33 am 
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That wasn’t a throw as much as it was an alley-oop.

Horrible decision by Ben. And the fact he thinks he can get away with that shit shows where his mind is.

Also leads one to believe he will do some really dumb shit like that again.

That wasn’t the last idiotic and amateurish decision our 15 year vet/HOF bound QB will make this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:59 am 
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955876 wrote:
Horrible decision by Ben. And the fact he thinks he can get away with that shit shows where his mind is.

Also leads one to believe he will do some really dumb shit like that again.


I'm afraid it's much worse than that. Ben said - again (think he's said it before) - that if AB is 1-on-1 he's giving him a chance to make a play. Ben doesn't even think it was mistake, much less a bad decision.

That's really a notion that a coach should fully dissuade him from. Jump balls are rarely a good idea to rely on with anyone, and there's limited time & place for them. On 2nd down, you should NEVER be throwing a jump ball. Inside the 20, you should NEVER throw a floating jumpball.

It sure looks like Haley did have some influence on Ben's decision making. And now that he's gone, Ben is starting to look like a drunk gambler taking all the sucker prop bets.

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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:59 am 
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Said this in the game thread that it was an amazing throw. He put the red dot laser on the ass of a gnat and hit the red dot. Watch it in slow-no and it was an absolute perfect pass. In addition AB absolutely high pointed the ball. Was it the wisest throw? No. Would we have been surprised if AB came down with it? No. Would people have been complaining if there was a TD? No.

It was Ben being Ben.

Do you want Roy McAvoy or David Simms?


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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:07 pm 
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Since Roy lost (badly) and Simms won (smartly) I’d say the easy answer here is Simms.

Ben isn’t 24 anymore. Needs to win with his mind more than his braun.

And is wasn’t a “laser”. It was a floater he tossed up for grabs. In the EZ no less where the defenders had time to settle under and jump too.

The fact it was 2nd down was all the worse. Still had another down in his pocket as well as the FG try if that had failed.

“Ben being Ben” has become the built-in excuse for Ben just did something really fucking stupid.

Again...


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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:12 pm 
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955876 wrote:
“Ben being Ben” has become the built-in excuse for Ben just did something really fucking stupid.


That's not Ben being a playmaker that's Ben trying to let AB be a playmaker.

Ben is clearly overconfident in AB. And he's said as much. And he's making turnovers because of overconfidence forcing the ball to AB at times.

It's not good. We see the success Ben has when he looks for his other targets. AB is great, but forcing the ball to him is simply lazy on the part of the QB.

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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:39 pm 
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Quote:
forcing the ball to him is simply lazy on the part of the QB.


Not only lazy but highly detrimental to the team’s success.

We won yesterday so it gets swept under the rug.

However, had we played the second half like we did vs. the Ravens those missed points to close out the first half could have loomed large.

I’ll wager right now that the game that ends our season will have a similarly stupid play on Ben’s part somewhere in the game.

A ball held an eternity that leads to strip sack.

Forcing it to Brown through double/triple coverage

Taking a sack that pushes us out of FG range.

Spiking it with a TO in pocket and then later really needing that down.

Throwing a bomb on 3rd & inches when current game situation screams most important thing at that point in time is retaining possession.


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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:51 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Since Roy lost (badly) and Simms won (smartly) I’d say the easy answer here is Simms.

Ben isn’t 24 anymore. Needs to win with his mind more than his braun.

And is wasn’t a “laser”. It was a floater he tossed up for grabs. In the EZ no less where the defenders had time to settle under and jump too.

The fact it was 2nd down was all the worse. Still had another down in his pocket as well as the FG try if that had failed.

“Ben being Ben” has become the built-in excuse for Ben just did something really fucking stupid.

Again...


It has been a long time since someone has seen Tin Cup I suspect! :)

David Simms takes himself out of Chanpionship contention by playing by the book and laying up for the fourth consecutive day! He loses.

Roy is tied for the lead and goes for the championship win right then and there on the 18th by not laying up.

So it is not a choice of picking the champion or picking the loser, it is a choice between picking the guy that settles for second or picking the guy that goes for the win.

It is the trait you can’t strip out of Ben or else you strip out Ben.

Also laser was not used to describe the throw. I meant an actual red dot laser and the projectile hits the red dot.

The actual winner of the fictional US Open was the real golfer Peter Jacobsen.

The answer is you want Roy in your QB.


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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:54 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
955876 wrote:
Horrible decision by Ben. And the fact he thinks he can get away with that shit shows where his mind is.

Also leads one to believe he will do some really dumb shit like that again.


I'm afraid it's much worse than that. Ben said - again (think he's said it before) - that if AB is 1-on-1 he's giving him a chance to make a play. Ben doesn't even think it was mistake, much less a bad decision.

That's really a notion that a coach should fully dissuade him from. Jump balls are rarely a good idea to rely on with anyone, and there's limited time & place for them. On 2nd down, you should NEVER be throwing a jump ball. Inside the 20, you should NEVER throw a floating jumpball.

It sure looks like Haley did have some influence on Ben's decision making. And now that he's gone, Ben is starting to look like a drunk gambler taking all the sucker prop bets.


1-on-1? Sure.

1-on-3? Ummm, no. Never. And doubly never at the end of the first half while in easy field goal range.


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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Quote:
1-on-1? Sure.

1-on-3? Ummm, no. Never. And doubly never at the end of the first half while in easy field goal range.


Tomlin’s reaction on sideline right after shows he wasn’t on board.


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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:03 pm 
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Quote:
The answer is you want Roy in your QB.


You are correct that I haven’t seen Tin Cup in a while. Thought Simms had won.

Doesn’t change my answer.

Roy took a shot he hadn’t made all week. Props for having the balls to try.

But then, he didn’t learn from that mistake. He never learned from his mistakes and co rubies to repeat them.

Similiar to Ben. Ben never learns from his mistakes either. And to believe that throw wasn’t a mistake is being delusional. It was a VERY dumb decision to toss that ball up for grabs on 2nd freaking down.

You are right that I wouldn’t want Simms. He’s Alex Smiff.

I also don’t want Roy Mcavoy. He’s Jeff George. Mega talent arm with a 10 cent brain.


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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:12 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
955876 wrote:
Horrible decision by Ben. And the fact he thinks he can get away with that shit shows where his mind is.

Also leads one to believe he will do some really dumb shit like that again.


I'm afraid it's much worse than that. Ben said - again (think he's said it before) - that if AB is 1-on-1 he's giving him a chance to make a play. Ben doesn't even think it was mistake, much less a bad decision.

That's really a notion that a coach should fully dissuade him from. Jump balls are rarely a good idea to rely on with anyone, and there's limited time & place for them. On 2nd down, you should NEVER be throwing a jump ball. Inside the 20, you should NEVER throw a floating jumpball.

It sure looks like Haley did have some influence on Ben's decision making. And now that he's gone, Ben is starting to look like a drunk gambler taking all the sucker prop bets.


1-on-1 jump balls are great if you have a guy like Evans. I think Juju would do well with them.


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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:31 pm 
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955876 wrote:
That wasn’t a throw as much as it was an alley-oop.

Horrible decision by Ben. And the fact he thinks he can get away with that shit shows where his mind is.

Also leads one to believe he will do some really dumb shit like that again.

That wasn’t the last idiotic and amateurish decision our 15 year vet/HOF bound QB will make this year.


Ben has done this over his entire career. He'll throw picks or take sacks in search of the big play. Throwing the ball away only occurs to him when the other offense trots on the field high-fiving their opportunistic defense. This is the roller coaster of cheering for Big Ben because we all know those horrible decisions often turn into magical results. Unfortunately, the team doesn't have enough firepower to overcome recklessness on regular basis. There's no top 10 defense that will erase his mishaps. He's gotta stop trying to force feed AB. He's gotta trust Juju 1 on 1 over AB being double-teamed.

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 Post subject: Re: Taller receivers are messing with Ben’s mind
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
1-on-1 jump balls are great if you have a guy like Evans. I think Juju would do well with them.


I mostly disagree. It may be a "safe" play in the sense they don't let it get picked nearly as much, but no one hauls in close to 50% of such plays.

That play is always well less than 50%, with a significant elevated chance of a pick. IMO, it's a throw that should only be made on 3rd down between the 30's...ignoring last drive while trailing or way behind.

I'm looking for a higher % throw, #1. If everyone is covered and it's 1st or 2nd down, throw it away because maybe someone will be open for an easy completion on the next down.

I think the risk of a turnover there on 1st or 2nd down is being stupid aggressive. You can attack and be aggressive without being stupid, and Tomlin doesn't seem to understand this nor has he ever took Ben to task on it.

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