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 Post subject: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:29 pm 
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anymore.

I know, I know he can't stay healthy. When he's out there we at least seem formidable, no? He will cover any number 1 WR and it seems everyone just picks up their game some. I think he is really our only hope to compete against better teams and being able to really play man in certain spots, instead of guys just running wide open to any spot on the field. Did we forget that Sammy Watkins can actually ball too, instead we payed 100% of our attention to Tyreek Hill in the first Q? Ya know, Travis Kelce is pretty good too?


Not sure what to even say after KC that is positive, so this is all I got.


On that note, is he going to practice this week? :|


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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:58 pm 
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Hinestuff wrote:
anymore.

I know, I know he can't stay healthy. When he's out there we at least seem formidable, no? He will cover any number 1 WR and it seems everyone just picks up their game some. I think he is really our only hope to compete against better teams and being able to really play man in certain spots, instead of guys just running wide open to any spot on the field. Did we forget that Sammy Watkins can actually ball too, instead we payed 100% of our attention to Tyreek Hill in the first Q? Ya know, Travis Kelce is pretty good too?


Not sure what to even say after KC that is positive, so this is all I got.


On that note, is he going to practice this week? :|

He will practice, and I wholeheartedly agree that Haden is the key to easier times.

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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:59 pm 
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Seriously?

So instead of Shazier making the defense work, now it's Haden?

More eggs in one basket bullshit.

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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:04 pm 
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I thought he was at least one piece you can count on, week to week. That little piece of stability makes everyone else's job easier. He was one of the most effective CBs (statistically) in the entire NFL last year, and played well in Cleveland.

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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:31 pm 
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Haden is very good. Unfortunately, he seems to be brittle as of late.

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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:01 am 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Seriously?

So instead of Shazier making the defense work, now it's Haden?

More eggs in one basket bullshit.


Well, last time I checked Shazier isn't playing for us anymore.

Shazier was our biggest playmaker for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:22 am 
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Quote:
Mike Hilton, noted that there were several plays in which one half of the field was playing a different coverage look than the other half. https://steelersdepot.com/2018/09/camer ... n-players/
Quote:
“I think you panic when you know you’ve lost control,” Heyward Bey said. “We haven’t lost control.”

Maybe, but it looked like that way at times against Kansas City. The secondary, playing without injured veteran cornerback Joe Haden, looked flat-footed at times and lost at others.

“We’ve got to make sure we’re on top of each other,” cornerback Mike Hilton said. “We’ve got to make sure we know what we’re doing so explosive plays like we gave up yesterday don’t happen all the time. It’s a copycat league, so some team might be doing the same thing Kansas City did.” https://apnews.com/08aeeb7fc5ab4fc2ba3f ... less-start
Wow.


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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:23 am 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Quote:
Mike Hilton, noted that there were several plays in which one half of the field was playing a different coverage look than the other half. https://steelersdepot.com/2018/09/camer ... n-players/
Quote:
“I think you panic when you know you’ve lost control,” Heyward Bey said. “We haven’t lost control.”

Maybe, but it looked like that way at times against Kansas City. The secondary, playing without injured veteran cornerback Joe Haden, looked flat-footed at times and lost at others.

“We’ve got to make sure we’re on top of each other,” cornerback Mike Hilton said. “We’ve got to make sure we know what we’re doing so explosive plays like we gave up yesterday don’t happen all the time. It’s a copycat league, so some team might be doing the same thing Kansas City did.” https://apnews.com/08aeeb7fc5ab4fc2ba3f ... less-start
Wow.

Wash...rinse...repeat...

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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:47 am 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Quote:
Mike Hilton, noted that there were several plays in which one half of the field was playing a different coverage look than the other half. https://steelersdepot.com/2018/09/camer ... n-players/
Quote:
“I think you panic when you know you’ve lost control,” Heyward Bey said. “We haven’t lost control.”

Maybe, but it looked like that way at times against Kansas City. The secondary, playing without injured veteran cornerback Joe Haden, looked flat-footed at times and lost at others.

“We’ve got to make sure we’re on top of each other,” cornerback Mike Hilton said. “We’ve got to make sure we know what we’re doing so explosive plays like we gave up yesterday don’t happen all the time. It’s a copycat league, so some team might be doing the same thing Kansas City did.” https://apnews.com/08aeeb7fc5ab4fc2ba3f ... less-start
Wow.


What exactly did KC do that others might copy? Show up with a gameplan? With multiple players? Having watched film?


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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:34 am 
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They could get a speedy receiver matched up on Watt in man coverage with no over the top help.

I'd probably try copying that.


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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:50 am 
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KC used 4 verts concepts to isolate ILBs and Safeties in coverage. Then, once they got the Steelers scrambling to cover the seams, they got Watkins and Hill isolated, 1v1 on the outsides, with no safety help.

Part of the trouble for the Steelers was Kelce+Hill+ Watkins+Hunt... so much danger to defend that they ended up playing vanilla instead of attacking and risking big plays. Add Mahomes, who makes throws that defeat even great coverage and you're kind of fucked if you don't do everything perfectly.

Our ILBs and safeties simply are not very good at the most basic coverage defense in the NFL, Cover 2... or its partner quarters. Have to have instincts and agility to play those defenses. Safeties can't play so deep, LBs have to carry and run with athletic TEs, hook/curl defenders have to re-route receivers.

TB has no run game and Haden vs Evans is a stalemate. Boils down to not letting the Bucs manipulate your defense into free looks for Desean Jackson or OJ Howard.

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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:03 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
KC used 4 verts concepts to isolate ILBs and Safeties in coverage. Then, once they got the Steelers scrambling to cover the seams, they got Watkins and Hill isolated, 1v1 on the outsides, with no safety help.

Part of the trouble for the Steelers was Kelce+Hill+ Watkins+Hunt... so much danger to defend that they ended up playing vanilla instead of attacking and risking big plays. Add Mahomes, who makes throws that defeat even great coverage and you're kind of fucked if you don't do everything perfectly.

Our ILBs and safeties simply are not very good at the most basic coverage defense in the NFL, Cover 2... or its partner quarters. Have to have instincts and agility to play those defenses. Safeties can't play so deep, LBs have to carry and run with athletic TEs, hook/curl defenders have to re-route receivers.

TB has no run game and Haden vs Evans is a stalemate. Boils down to not letting the Bucs manipulate your defense into free looks for Desean Jackson or OJ Howard.


Two words -- Matthew Thomas


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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Matthew Thomas has potential... but the biggest issue he has is... wait for it... instincts/quick processing.

I think they should either bring in a pass rusher from off the roster/play Thomas at edge and play Watt at Mack
or
play Edmunds at Mack

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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:58 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Matthew Thomas has potential... but the biggest issue he has is... wait for it... instincts/quick processing.

I think they should either bring in a pass rusher from off the roster/play Thomas at edge and play Watt at Mack
or
play Edmunds at Mack


Agree on the insticits. But he has the physical ability to turn and run with the safeties.


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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:10 pm 
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So we load up on hybrid safeties - why aren’t we using?


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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:18 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Matthew Thomas has potential... but the biggest issue he has is... wait for it... instincts/quick processing.

I think they should either bring in a pass rusher from off the roster/play Thomas at edge and play Watt at Mack
or
play Edmunds at Mack



I think we see one of these come to fruition.

Too bad imo it'll be around week 8.


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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:03 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Matthew Thomas has potential... but the biggest issue he has is... wait for it... instincts/quick processing.


This is where drafting at the back of the pack catches up. You're rarely getting instincts and athletic ability at a high level in the same package. I'm almost assuming at this point that Howard is going to have his breakout professional game against this group, though the idea of putting Edmunds on him in at least some capacity has merit. He's shorter than most at TE, at least, and his hands aren't perfect, so we've got a chance.


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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:43 pm 
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The short time that Joe Haden played this year against the Browns, he did get burned on a deep ball. I agree that Haden makes us better if he can play up to the level he played last season. But that’s not guaranteed. Haden can be vulnerable to deep routes.

Haden is the best CB on our roster which is like the least ugly girl at the prom. Haden makes us better, but the Steelers defensive problems are so much deeper than what Haden’s return will fix.


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 Post subject: Re: Joe Haden cannot get hurt...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:21 pm 
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Deleted.


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