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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:59 am 
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T.W. wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
Havoc wrote:
You can't just keep letting OCs and DCs go and never say the problem starts with the HC.


And Butler was quoted last year as saying Tomlin was heavily involved with the defense.

So maybe Butler deserves a shot to actually run the defense without Tomlin micro-managing. But that's never going to happen.

If I’m remembering correctly he stated this on one of those Coordinator Thursday videos, and it isn’t just the defense it’s all three phases.


Funnily enough I think it was put out there to combat the impressions that Tomlin didn’t do anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:19 pm 
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steelmann58 wrote:
Butler needs to go also Danny Smith.and i wish we find someone like Wade Phillips to run our defense


Yeah...lets say he even retires...he could by like Tom coughlin and consult.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:46 pm 
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How long till Matt Patricia gets fired and is available?


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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:48 pm 
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good lord -- just watched Pitt panthers play winless Carolina! they were shredded like carving butter. it was just like the steelers shit defense... sliced and diced all game giving up huge 3rd down plays and easy touch downs. can anyone on south side coach these two god awful squads? disgusting to watch.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:53 pm 
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We need to find a DC who might be in the same sistuation like MM not a GOOD HC but great as a position coach.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:14 pm 
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According to ESPN, Mike Nolan is the best available DC.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2074 ... -25-yearso

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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:17 am 
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Havoc wrote:
Stinger8 wrote:
Butlers seat should be heating up the defense is abysmal.


Well, we let go 2 OCs under Tomlin. If Butler belongs on the hot seat, so does the former DC HC.

You can't just keep letting OCs and DCs go and never say the problem starts with the HC.


Perfect post. Keep firing DC's and OC's and scratching your head about why this team just can't put it all together..........hmmmmmmm what do they call that....not seeing the forest for the trees???

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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:39 am 
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would not surprise me if the Steelers shock the world and play an A game in front of the country on defense.

To me....this is a must performance or Butler may be cleaning his office out....this would come from above imo


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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:45 am 
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go back to the championship game 2 years ago...Bradys mind was blown because there were 2-3 guys so wide open.

A little game film on how Mitchell and Artie bites and the flea flicker had 2 guys open. I used to have the all 22 so that is a fact.

Fast forward...a rookie throws for 6 TDs because of communication breakdown.

Yes...Ryan is a factor but this is bigger than him.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:54 am 
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Read an article in which Butler admitted the defence was in two different scheme's on one of the Kellie tds. How the hell does that happen? Is Butler sending in the defensive signal, then Tomlin tries to change it and only half the defence get it? This is confusing as hell and just proves how inept this coaching staff is.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:24 am 
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My feelings on this are the same as usual. I feel like the defense will not change for the better until there is actual change, meaning they get away from the 3-4 LeBeau defense. They are still trying to cling to it, still trying to prop it up when they need to just smash the whole thing down.

Here is a question that maybe someone can answer for me.

If Butler and Tomlin really think that the pass rush is to come from the OLBs then why are we paying $120 million to our DEs? Why are we paying Cam and Tuitt over $60 million a piece??

If you really believe that having that edge rusher is most important, is the missing ingredient, then having $120 million tied up in your two starting DEs might not be the best approach?

Instead of resigning Cam and Tuitt, they should just let them leave as free agents, draft their replacements in rounds 1 and 2, maybe even get some comp picks as they sign for big money elsewhere.

And the $120 million that we previously would have spent on them, can go towards signing proven edge rushers in free agency.

If you really believe that the edge rusher problem is what is keeping this defense from returning to glory, than why are you wasting money on your defensive line???

I personally believe that Cam and Tuitt would be absolute studs in a 4-3 defense and yet we don't want to do that with them. And yet, we are paying for them as if they are studs in a 4-3 defense. Makes no sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:08 am 
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To me, Doesn't look like they're trying to switch to a 4-3 Scunge. Instead we've seen them pick offensive players more often in the higher rounds. Safety was/is a huge need last draft and even though Edmunds hasn't had much success 'I believe' he's still developing into the role he'll eventually play on the defense. They don't have and haven't targeted any DT's that might indicate their switch to a 4-3. I think Hargraves is that NT for a 3-4 and McCullers even though he struggles at the position is that same type NT for a 3-4. Can they play a 4-3 with the DLine as it stands? Keeping the same 6 DLinemen to me indicates they are a base 3-4 minded defense. The one DLineman they drafted in the 7th was more a gamble about the type player they thought he might become. The UDFA's they brought in for camp/preseason weren't exactly any confirmation either. Looking at their Practice Squad you'll find there are no DLinemen that could indicate a 4-3 DT. Hooks is the lone DLineman on the practice squad. Hooks is a 3-4 DE. I'm not certain the Steelers are even trying to switch from a 3-4 but are trying to improve the 3-4 style they play. As you've stated they have huge investments in the DLine and I really can't see them switching from the 3-4 at least until Heyward/Tuitt are gone.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:09 pm 
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But that is my whole point about bringing up the two DEs. Why are we paying two DEs such money to play in a 3-4??? They are paying big time money to them to play in a 3-4 defense and that money is probably better spent paying for edge rushers.

Where do people think Heyward and Tuitt rank in terms of their contracts for defensive ends?

Cam ranks 8th and Tuitt ranks 6th for highest paid contracts for defensive ends.

Now, ordinarily, I would be fine with paying that much money for your DEs, if they are featured in your defense, the defense is built around them, they are the pass rushers, the playmakers.

For example, there is one other team that has two DEs that are paid in the top 10, Minnesota has Danielle Hunter and Everson Griffen as their two DEs. They play a 4-3 defense. Hunter is the 4th highest paid DE, and Griffen is just below Cam at 9th. Combined they make $130 million to our duo of Cam and Tuitt that combine for $120.

Yet, which is the better value? Which team is getting more production? Which team is maximizing the talent of their DEs, featuring them more, getting more bang for their dollar?

Hunter and Griffen have combined for 57 sacks the past 3 seasons. Cam and Tuitt have combined for 35.5 sacks.

I just don't understand the logic. Fine, you want to pay $120 million to Cam and Tuitt but then you don't want to do everything possible to maximize that talent? Minnesota gets it, they have their guys playing in a 4-3, they don't play 90% of the snaps, instead they play around 70-75% and they have a rotation, they had Brian Robison their 3rd DE play 56% of the snaps last season.

You look at our guys, our DEs are always gassed in the 4th quarter, and wore down. It is just lunacy.

It is easy to find 3-4 DEs, much easier than finding edge rushers at OLB. Yet, not only are we spending high draft picks on the D-line, a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks, but we are also spending obscene amounts of money for them as well. Three high draft picks AND $125 million spent for them to play in a 3-4 defense? And we wonder why the defense is struggling???

There are mixed signals and messages. They have to figure out what they want to do on the defensive side of the ball. Either bite the bullet and go with a 4-3 defense, continue adding defensive lineman, or realize that you have been misappropriating funds and go out and buy edge rushers at OLB. They can't seem to find or develop edge rushers anymore so they have to 'buy' them instead. And if you are spending that money on your defensive linemen, well, there is no hope that this 3-4 defense will ever become good again.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:01 pm 
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They are paying that olf dupree all that money hopefully they will use that money to find a quality defense player.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:03 pm 
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Last year we heard that in Butler's system, the OLB's are in coverage more and the ILB's are more involved in rushing the passer. I don't know how that affects the thinking about the DE's. if your OLB's aren't rushing as much, then does that mean your DE's are?


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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:23 pm 
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Quote:
Where do people think Heyward and Tuitt rank in terms of their contracts for defensive ends?

Cam ranks 8th and Tuitt ranks 6th for highest paid contracts for defensive ends.
For me Cam ranks high at position for both money and service. Cam has been racking up the pressures/sacks consistently for a few seasons. Tuitt has been over paid if you look at it the same way. So Tuitt doesn't rank as high as his money compared to service.

Still not convinced the Steelers are considering a 4-3 switch. Would have been a perfect timing situation once LeBeau was shown the exit. They stayed the course as a 3-4 team. Less is more perhaps?


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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:25 pm 
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I agree with scunge but I’ll further add don’t discount how they’ve botched the secondary too. They waited till they were 31 st pass D before they started drafting DB early. Of course by that point you’re playing catch-up so you’re bound to make more desperate picks.

All the teams that consistently beat the pats back to the giants had great secondaries. Not just good but elite. Super elite even. Like #1 overall elite.

I see a couple more blowouts on the D side leading to a “shadow” DC type deal, that person probably being tomlin himself.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:43 pm 
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If the defense gets trottled have to think it the end of Butler and if the ST continues to fail Smith could be next along with Berry


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 Post subject: Re: Is Butler's seat heating up yet?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
My feelings on this are the same as usual. I feel like the defense will not change for the better until there is actual change, meaning they get away from the 3-4 LeBeau defense. They are still trying to cling to it, still trying to prop it up when they need to just smash the whole thing down.

Here is a question that maybe someone can answer for me.

If Butler and Tomlin really think that the pass rush is to come from the OLBs then why are we paying $120 million to our DEs? Why are we paying Cam and Tuitt over $60 million a piece??

If you really believe that having that edge rusher is most important, is the missing ingredient, then having $120 million tied up in your two starting DEs might not be the best approach?

Instead of resigning Cam and Tuitt, they should just let them leave as free agents, draft their replacements in rounds 1 and 2, maybe even get some comp picks as they sign for big money elsewhere.

And the $120 million that we previously would have spent on them, can go towards signing proven edge rushers in free agency.

If you really believe that the edge rusher problem is what is keeping this defense from returning to glory, than why are you wasting money on your defensive line???

I personally believe that Cam and Tuitt would be absolute studs in a 4-3 defense and yet we don't want to do that with them. And yet, we are paying for them as if they are studs in a 4-3 defense. Makes no sense.


well stated...Steelers run a hybrid 3-4 ..no?

I also think that the traditional 3-4 may never be the same where you had a Casey type NT. Just my 2 cents


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