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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:58 pm 
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I know Tomlin is not perfect, and I thought the PS FO could have changed directions last year only because it was a long enough stint and I thought they could use some fresh air in the organization. They didn’t but made several coaching changes and I was appeased.

I am not picking up what you are putting down. Tomlin is both the potted plant and the micro manager by your description above. Some feel his lieutenants are doing everything and Tomlin does nothing. Others feel Tomlin is responsible for everything making him the greatest micro manager and tyrant ever.

Which is it? Is he doing nothing and the RB coach and player is responsible? Or does he have his finger on the pulse of all these decisions and MT is super active on the headset vetoing left and right and interjecting all game long?

I personally feel this is all OC, RB coach and player!

Post Gazette:
Fichtner wants a mulligan

Second-year running back James Conner touched the ball 36 times in his first NFL start, and no other running backs played against the Browns. Fichtner said he regrets not working Stevan Ridley or Jaylen Samuels into the game.

“Just chalk that up to me being a young coordinator in this league,” Fichtner said. “I should have got other running backs in. We need to do that with Le’Veon [Bell]. We need to do that with young receivers and tight ends. That’s just something that maybe got away from us. You didn’t feel that in-game. [Conner] was giving us good strength. He was more than capable of handling the snaps he did. He did a really fine job.”


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:15 pm 
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You think Belichick sits in anticipation wondering what his OC, RB coach, and players are going to decide to do over the course of a game or season?

Think Parcells sat back and let his players dictate their carries and when?

Walsh?

Noll?

I don’t.

And it’s ridiculous for anyone else to think that.

1) players can’t be trusted to come out when tired or dinged. Some simply won’t.
2) it’s literally the HC freaking job to manage this aspect of his personal and the game in general.

I’m not saying if a Rb says hey I’m winded they can’t take themselves out.

Let’s not forget many players have number of carries, yards, TDs, etc etc as part of their contracts.

So ya, I fully trust my 23 year old player that’s got $$$ on the line literally ied to their individual production to tell me the HC what’s best.

This is dumb to even discuss.


Last edited by 955876 on Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:32 pm 
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I hate the way Bell has handled himself throughout this process. He can say all he wants, he’s a me first guy to an extreme, and should have accepted the Steelers offer, and I believe he’ll regret not doing so. That said, Tomlin is too fucking stubborn for words in ways that include how he handles his running backs; never questions himself on any mistake; shows no capacity for change. 31-0 is an amazing stat from the Sunday debacle.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:03 am 
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955876 wrote:
You think Belichick sits in anticipation wondering what his OC, RB coach, and players are going to decide to do over the course of a game or season?

Think Parcells sat back and let his players dictate their carries and when?

Walsh?

Noll?

I don’t.

And it’s ridiculous for anyone else to think that.

1) players can’t be trusted to come out when tired or dinged. Some simply won’t.
2) it’s literally the HC freaking job to manage this aspect of his personal and the game in general.

I’m not saying if a Rb says hey I’m winded they can’t take themselves out.

Let’s not forget many players have number of carries, yards, TDs, etc etc as part of their contracts.

So ya, I fully trust my 23 year old player that’s got $$$ on the line literally ied to their individual production to tell me the HC what’s best.

This is dumb to even discuss.

That's your opinion, and it's fine.

But I remember the Chin holding back the Bus and others late in games even when they were fresh. They would be going for their helmet and he would wave them off. See, you missed my point. This isn't about the players. It's about the HC. He has that title for a reason. It's the same reason Fichtner doesn't field questions at the weekly presser. Tomlin is ultimately responsible for every decision his coordinators make. And he is ultimately responsible for the well being and effectiveness of his players.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:39 am 
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Bell does not have a point, he has another excuse.

I've already responded in a previous thread. What's more troubling is when fans start to buy into this madness. It's simple, super super simple, the player has 100% control of their limit on playing. Bell is not the only running back and he knows it. Take a knee, hold up a hand, take yourself out, be dizzy, etc.

Please stop trying to support this notation and think about the statement Bell made earlier in the year...

"I"m going to have the best season of my career..." or something very similar. The only way you have the best year of your career is to exceed the previous high mark. Either he's figured out how to get more yards per carry and reduce his touches, or he gets a lot more carries to make up for it. Oh by the way, "I'll be there at the start of the season..." He made these statements knowing he's tagged and no more deals are possible.

What changed? Did the anticipate workload somehow going way up?

Greed, simply greed. He saw some big deals come through that he believes supports his big payday. That's it, nothing more. He wants the Steelers to show him more money. This is NOT about carries and workload.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:59 am 
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So why not take the money offered then? Why turn the situation into a trainwreck? If Bell's point is to act like a selfish, inconsiderate fool then yeah, I agree he has a point.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:56 am 
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7forSteel wrote:
955876 wrote:
You think Belichick sits in anticipation wondering what his OC, RB coach, and players are going to decide to do over the course of a game or season?

Think Parcells sat back and let his players dictate their carries and when?

Walsh?

Noll?

I don’t.

And it’s ridiculous for anyone else to think that.

1) players can’t be trusted to come out when tired or dinged. Some simply won’t.
2) it’s literally the HC freaking job to manage this aspect of his personal and the game in general.

I’m not saying if a Rb says hey I’m winded they can’t take themselves out.

Let’s not forget many players have number of carries, yards, TDs, etc etc as part of their contracts.

So ya, I fully trust my 23 year old player that’s got $$$ on the line literally ied to their individual production to tell me the HC what’s best.

This is dumb to even discuss.

That's your opinion, and it's fine.

But I remember the Chin holding back the Bus and others late in games even when they were fresh. They would be going for their helmet and he would wave them off. See, you missed my point. This isn't about the players. It's about the HC. He has that title for a reason. It's the same reason Fichtner doesn't field questions at the weekly presser. Tomlin is ultimately responsible for every decision his coordinators make. And he is ultimately responsible for the well being and effectiveness of his players.


Ummmm my last post and your last post addressing mine are saying the exact same thing. I fully agree with your last post. It is about the HC. He is responsible for this stuff. Sure he can delegate but if he isn’t seeing what he wants it takes but a moment to say something about it.

When I say it’s dumb to even talk about, what I’m saying is that it’s dumb for some to think the ultimate responsibility doesnt lie with the HC.

That stuff the poster before me posted about Fitchner taking he blame for not rotating backs doesn’t support his opinion it reinforces mine as it would show Tomlin wasn’t even talking to Ditchner about this stuff. Just watching the game unfold like the rest of us.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:57 am 
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955876 wrote:
7forSteel wrote:
955876 wrote:
You think Belichick sits in anticipation wondering what his OC, RB coach, and players are going to decide to do over the course of a game or season?

Think Parcells sat back and let his players dictate their carries and when?

Walsh?

Noll?

I don’t.

And it’s ridiculous for anyone else to think that.

1) players can’t be trusted to come out when tired or dinged. Some simply won’t.
2) it’s literally the HC freaking job to manage this aspect of his personal and the game in general.

I’m not saying if a Rb says hey I’m winded they can’t take themselves out.

Let’s not forget many players have number of carries, yards, TDs, etc etc as part of their contracts.

So ya, I fully trust my 23 year old player that’s got $$$ on the line literally ied to their individual production to tell me the HC what’s best.

This is dumb to even discuss.

That's your opinion, and it's fine.

But I remember the Chin holding back the Bus and others late in games even when they were fresh. They would be going for their helmet and he would wave them off. See, you missed my point. This isn't about the players. It's about the HC. He has that title for a reason. It's the same reason Fichtner doesn't field questions at the weekly presser. Tomlin is ultimately responsible for every decision his coordinators make. And he is ultimately responsible for the well being and effectiveness of his players.


Ummmm my last post and your last post addressing mine are saying the exact same thing. I fully agree with your last post. It is about the HC. He is responsible for this stuff. Sure he can delegate but if he isn’t seeing what he wants it takes but a moment to say something about it.

When I say it’s dumb to even talk about, what I’m saying is that it’s dumb for some to think the ultimate responsibility doesnt lie with the HC.

That stuff the poster before me posted about Fitchner taking he blame for not rotating backs doesn’t support his opinion it reinforces mine as it would show Tomlin wasn’t even talking to Ditchner about this stuff. Just watching the game unfold like the rest of us.

Gotcha. I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying it was dumb to discuss this entire issue. Yeah, totally agree that it all falls on Tomlin's shoulders.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:25 am 
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If Bell didn't get the bell cow touches he would bitch that the Steelers were limiting his touches and fucking with his money

Bell would have got his deal done if he didn't smoke green like Cheech and Chong.

The Steelers don't trust him...I don't blame them.

I smoke dope like Cheech and Chong and I named a fucking dog after Bell so I am the furthest thing from a hater

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:25 pm 
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Bell does not have a point.

Ask offensive lineman and defensive lineman about "overuse" and the long term affects on their career and health. Those guys taking the kind of beatings in a game and over their career that Bell can't even imagine. Also, guys who miss games from suspensions and crap really shouldn't be talking about overuse when their infractions limit use (i.e. total absence) over certain games.

I agree that the Coach has to be smart in how he plays anyone so they are available and can produce all year long, particularly come playoff time. But that has nothing to do with Bell. Your argument is a red herring and has nothing to do with Bell being "right" or wrong."


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:06 pm 
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two faced fuck i cant wait till he is an ex steeler


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Bell's point to give up more money by the week is made. Missed his 4pm deadline.
Quote:
@AndrewBrandt
Le'Veon Bell now about two hours away from 4pm ET deadline to report or forfeit another $885,000, which it looks like he'll lose. And as a former agent, I just don't get it. https://twitter.com/AndrewBrandt/status ... 0066167808
Stuck on Stupid?
Quote:
Bell's lost revenue is now over $1.7 million for missing this season's first two games. https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1040995743316803584


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:44 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Bell's point to give up more money by the week is made. Missed his 4pm deadline.


He still has almost 80 minutes :D

I wonder how long this goes, because it's a safe bet he knows PIT will use the exemption and make him practice for 2 weeks without getting paid. Which means he might sign right before the bye week, which might only result in 1 more lost check and only 1 week of practice before playing.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:35 pm 
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Silly question but what happens with the money? Charity?


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:53 pm 
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Back to the cap.

Steelers should be $12M under.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:54 pm 
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money goes back to the team cap if i am the steelers think about pull the offer


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Joey's Pitbull wrote:
Silly question but what happens with the money? Charity?


Player fines go to charity, I believe.

But this isn't a fine, it's just cap money that was reserved for Bell's franchise tag. Since he hasn't signed and the money isn't being spent, the Steelers get a credit to the cap each week.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:55 am 
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I don't think this is about money at this point. I believe he is saving himself for his next team and his next paycheck. I think he is convinced that his next contract will cover anything he loses by sitting out. And that's why I don't think we'll see him until week 10.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:45 am 
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Bell is not doing himself any favors by holding out. This idea that he is saving wear and tear on his body is a sham

Let us be real here, as much as Bell is complaining about the Steelers running his wheels off, that is what teams do with supposedly 'elite' RBs.

David Johnson touched the ball 373 times in 2016, Zeke Elliot 354 times his rookie year in 15 games, last season he had his off the field troubles and was only able to play 10 games but had 268 touches, over a 16 game season that averages out to 428 touches.

Todd Gurley in 15 games last season touched the ball 343 times.

The next team that signs Bell is going to want to have him touch the ball at least 350 times a season just like these other RBs. And if Bell expects otherwise he is delusional. If he really thinks that some team is going to sign him to this large contract and then utilize him in a rotation he is dreaming.

And that is the whole point, these RBs getting the big money are given that money not to be in a backfield by committee, no, they are given that money because they are Bellcow running backs that can do it all, take on the load, never leave the field. That is why a team pays the big money.

So, if I am a team, I look at Bell's current attitude and cowardice as perplexing. You are afraid of getting hurt? You are afraid of touching the ball so much? Then why the hell would I give you $15 million a year? Why would I hand over $45 million in guaranteed money?

If you are really that afraid of getting used up then do what Devonta Freeman did with Atlanta. He is part of a two RB scheme and he is only making $8 million per season on average. You can't have it both ways. You either want all the money, the top money to be that RB who gets the heavy workload or you take half of that and are part of a committee, part of a rotation.

Bell is being self destructive and is painting himself as a selfish, unstable, almost mentally ill type of person. Last season he was bragging about how he wanted to have 500 touches in a season and now he says the Steelers are trying to harm him and shorten his career? That type of about face, that type of schizo behavior does not endear you to an NFL team, and certainly not one that you want $75 million from and half of that upfront, guaranteed.

It will not end well for Bell. I see him leaving Pittsburgh, ending up with a team that does not make the playoffs or even have winning season. I see him getting injured, being really mundane and average and then eventually being cut early into his deal, like after two or 3 seasons. Then he will go from team to team and it will just be really sad.

Didn't have to be that way, could have signed a $70 million deal with the Steelers. That deal is still $13 million more than the deal Gurley got, it is $21 million more than the deal that David Johnson got. Steelers were more than generous, I don't see the issue, at all. Could have had a long career because what do you know, the Steelers actually do have some other RBs in Conner and Samuels to keep you fresh and rested, to spell you throughout the season.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:49 am 
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Scunge wrote:
Didn't have to be that way, could have signed a $70 million deal with the Steelers. That deal is still $13 million more than the deal Gurley got, it is $21 million more than the deal that David Johnson got. Steelers were more than generous, I don't see the issue, at all. Could have had a long career because what do you know, the Steelers actually do have some other RBs in Conner and Samuels to keep you fresh and rested, to spell you throughout the season.


Great points Scunge.

I will add one more point, which often gets overlooked when you get into the stratosphere of NFL salaries. With the advice Bell receives from his agent, I bet his agent has never factored in cost of living adjustments when they compare salaries and contracts to Gurley. $70 million goes so much further in Pittsburgh than LA and New York, especially when you talk about the big purchases of housing.

On top of that, the feeling of being rich is sometimes more important than actually being rich. With a $70 million contract in Pittsburgh you roll with a select small crowd and get to set tone on what the rich do and don’t do. $70 million in New York and LA, and your in a select crowd, but the crowd is actually a crowd and there are so many Joes making insane amounts more than Bell would. Bell would actually suffer from keeping up with the Jones’ in LA and NY and his $70 million would take huge hits playing that game.

In Pittsburgh Bell would actually be a King. In LA and NY he would start to feel like a prince among all the kings.

His agent really does need to put pen to paper or numbers into a spreadsheet and work the math. If you are the highest paid RB in the NFL in Pittsburgh PA, you need to add a COLA percentage adjustment on top of the contract as well if you will be using Gurley’s as a comparable. Comparing Bell’scontract to Gurley’s is truly an apples to oranges affair when you are talking money!


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