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 Post subject: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:59 pm 
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MJD interviewed Bell this week and most of what was asked, replied, and implied was total crap.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000961678/article/leveon-bell-disappointed-teammates-talked-contract

But...

One point was made that can't be overlooked. Workload. The point was made that if JC had 31 carries, imagine how many Lev would have gotten. Well, that's a stupid question. Lev wouldn't have gotten half that if he had been on the field.

So here's why I bring this up. Bell has a point about workload that has nothing to do with him and everything to do with Tomlin. Tomlin is shortening his RB's careers. So why hasn't someone (a RB) said something? Why didn't Lev go to Tomlin and say, the standard ain't the standard. I'm all in, coach, but I can't average 40 touches a game without wearing down at the end of the season, when it matters most.

Why can't JC say it and if Tomlin turns a def ear, go public? I know that "it just isn't done" and "he's the HC" and yada yada. But if someone would make this issue public, Tomlin couldn't pretend he's doing nothing wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:10 pm 
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It is simple. Hold your hand up and come out a series.

He has bitched he hasn’t gotten the ball enough and now he is bitching he gets the ball too much.

He thinks he is LeBron and can be an empire builder. You can’t empire build in football with 22 people and even arguably 33.

LeBron is going to new cities and actually putting teams together that can compete for rings.

If Bell wants to be the best of the best, which he doesn’t, he would stay right where he is and get a ring. If he is as good as he thinks he is, he should single handedly to be able to will us to the promise land.

He is a poser and will just be a foot note in the NFL because he will never get a ring with his attitude!


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:18 pm 
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Lev used to lobby for more carries. Lev has said he’s better after more touches.

Lev likely also knows he needs those carries to put up the numbers he does because he doesn’t get chunk yards.

Now all of a sudden since he’s done with this team the workload is an issue. Funny how he never brought it up before.

Lev is selfish and cannot be relied upon. Good riddance.

At the same time, Tomlin is a complete dumbfuck with how he uses his backs.

So Bell would only have a point if this was something he has been saying all along. But it isn’t.

Tomlin looks the fool for helping prove the point Bell is trying to make. A point only being made because of the current dispute. Not because it’s the way Bell has felt all along.

Had Tomlin been sharing carries with other backs all along Bell wouldn’t have the stats to support his highly & misguided ego.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:25 pm 
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I don't think I agree with the premise. RB's generally hit a wall in their late 20's regardless of how many carries they have. And I don't think # of carries has anything to do with Bell's knee injuries.

He was also pretty good in 3 of his last 4 playoff games, so that doesn't really support the "worn down" argument. Maybe that NE game where he pulled a groin muscle the week before, but no dropoff in production for the other 3 games.


Maybe the lack of fresh legs is costing some big gains. There's no way to know. But just 10 plays could be another 150 yards and a couple TD.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
I don't think I agree with the premise. RB's generally hit a wall in their late 20's regardless of how many carries they have. And I don't think # of carries has anything to do with Bell's knee injuries.

He was also pretty good in 3 of his last 4 playoff games, so that doesn't really support the "worn down" argument. Maybe that NE game where he pulled a groin muscle the week before, but no dropoff in production for the other 3 games.


Maybe the lack of fresh legs is costing some big gains. There's no way to know. But just 10 plays could be another 150 yards and a couple TD.



One other point; the great ones rarely get hit hard. Did you ever see Walter Payton, Barry Sanders or Jerry Rice getting creamed? No! NBA players can run up and down for 48 minutes so can football players. I don’t agree with the premise at all either. And I don’t even think Tomlin is responsible. All this shouting about Tomlin not resting Conner is BS. If the player is gassed hold up your hand. RB Coach is responsible for the rotation as well.

I highly doubt Tomlin is overriding the RB coach or yelling threats at Conner if he were to come out. This too many carries issue is just excess Tomlin bashing.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:56 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
I don't think I agree with the premise. RB's generally hit a wall in their late 20's regardless of how many carries they have. And I don't think # of carries has anything to do with Bell's knee injuries.

He was also pretty good in 3 of his last 4 playoff games, so that doesn't really support the "worn down" argument. Maybe that NE game where he pulled a groin muscle the week before, but no dropoff in production for the other 3 games.


Maybe the lack of fresh legs is costing some big gains. There's no way to know. But just 10 plays could be another 150 yards and a couple TD.



One other point; the great ones rarely get hit hard. Did you ever see Walter Payton, Barry Sanders or Jerry Rice getting creamed? No! NBA players can run up and down for 48 minutes so can football players. I don’t agree with the premise at all either. And I don’t even think Tomlin is responsible. All this shouting about Tomlin not resting Conner is BS. If the player is gassed hold up your hand. RB Coach is responsible for the rotation as well.

I highly doubt Tomlin is overriding the RB coach or yelling threats at Conner if he were to come out. This too many carries issue is just excess Tomlin bashing.


I agree. There is far better material to bash Tomlin on

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:06 pm 
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I do seem to remember Barry Foster carrying the ball quite a bit and Jerome Bettis carrying the ball quite a bit, and I don't ever remember anyone worrying about their snap counts. Different era I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:21 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
I do seem to remember Barry Foster carrying the ball quite a bit and Jerome Bettis carrying the ball quite a bit, and I don't ever remember anyone worrying about their snap counts. Different era I guess.


Barry Foster had Merrill Hoge, Leroy Thompson and Bam Morris to spell him. '92 was the only year Foster had the lion's share of carries.

Betis had a number of backs to spell him throughout his career. Erric Pegram, Richard Huntley, Famous Amos, Bad Ma'afala (shut your mouth!), Verron Haynes, Duce Staley, Willie Parker, heck even Kordell Stewart racked up a lot of carries. Like Foster, there was only one year where Bettis had the wheels run off him - 1997.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:37 pm 
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Dishonest hypocrite.

Think it was after jags game reg season he blamed teams early losses on them not giving him ball enough...something like that


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:37 pm 
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The HC is ABSOLUTELY responsible for this. Sure the RB coach is going to have a hand in this but big picture, either in game and especially over the course of a season the HC is MOST responsible.

It’s his a job to not only make sure the starter is able to maintain a level of effectiveness over the course of the season but also ensure the backups aren’t rotting on the bench and getting overly rusty.

Today’s back-up is next week’s or even the next plays starter. And you don’t know if you’ll have a week to get that player ready or 45 seconds.

So count me in he camp as calling bullshit on this one.

I’ve never seen a fan base go through such mental gymnastics trying to excuse a HC of any liability for anything.

If only all of us could be paid like the top guy yet be responsible & accountable for nothing.

Tomlin might as well crack open a cold one on the sidelines given he’s got nothing to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:58 pm 
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I know Tomlin is not perfect, and I thought the PS FO could have changed directions last year only because it was a long enough stint and I thought they could use some fresh air in the organization. They didn’t but made several coaching changes and I was appeased.

I am not picking up what you are putting down. Tomlin is both the potted plant and the micro manager by your description above. Some feel his lieutenants are doing everything and Tomlin does nothing. Others feel Tomlin is responsible for everything making him the greatest micro manager and tyrant ever.

Which is it? Is he doing nothing and the RB coach and player is responsible? Or does he have his finger on the pulse of all these decisions and MT is super active on the headset vetoing left and right and interjecting all game long?

I personally feel this is all OC, RB coach and player!

Post Gazette:
Fichtner wants a mulligan

Second-year running back James Conner touched the ball 36 times in his first NFL start, and no other running backs played against the Browns. Fichtner said he regrets not working Stevan Ridley or Jaylen Samuels into the game.

“Just chalk that up to me being a young coordinator in this league,” Fichtner said. “I should have got other running backs in. We need to do that with Le’Veon [Bell]. We need to do that with young receivers and tight ends. That’s just something that maybe got away from us. You didn’t feel that in-game. [Conner] was giving us good strength. He was more than capable of handling the snaps he did. He did a really fine job.”


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:15 pm 
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You think Belichick sits in anticipation wondering what his OC, RB coach, and players are going to decide to do over the course of a game or season?

Think Parcells sat back and let his players dictate their carries and when?

Walsh?

Noll?

I don’t.

And it’s ridiculous for anyone else to think that.

1) players can’t be trusted to come out when tired or dinged. Some simply won’t.
2) it’s literally the HC freaking job to manage this aspect of his personal and the game in general.

I’m not saying if a Rb says hey I’m winded they can’t take themselves out.

Let’s not forget many players have number of carries, yards, TDs, etc etc as part of their contracts.

So ya, I fully trust my 23 year old player that’s got $$$ on the line literally ied to their individual production to tell me the HC what’s best.

This is dumb to even discuss.


Last edited by 955876 on Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:32 pm 
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I hate the way Bell has handled himself throughout this process. He can say all he wants, he’s a me first guy to an extreme, and should have accepted the Steelers offer, and I believe he’ll regret not doing so. That said, Tomlin is too fucking stubborn for words in ways that include how he handles his running backs; never questions himself on any mistake; shows no capacity for change. 31-0 is an amazing stat from the Sunday debacle.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:03 am 
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955876 wrote:
You think Belichick sits in anticipation wondering what his OC, RB coach, and players are going to decide to do over the course of a game or season?

Think Parcells sat back and let his players dictate their carries and when?

Walsh?

Noll?

I don’t.

And it’s ridiculous for anyone else to think that.

1) players can’t be trusted to come out when tired or dinged. Some simply won’t.
2) it’s literally the HC freaking job to manage this aspect of his personal and the game in general.

I’m not saying if a Rb says hey I’m winded they can’t take themselves out.

Let’s not forget many players have number of carries, yards, TDs, etc etc as part of their contracts.

So ya, I fully trust my 23 year old player that’s got $$$ on the line literally ied to their individual production to tell me the HC what’s best.

This is dumb to even discuss.

That's your opinion, and it's fine.

But I remember the Chin holding back the Bus and others late in games even when they were fresh. They would be going for their helmet and he would wave them off. See, you missed my point. This isn't about the players. It's about the HC. He has that title for a reason. It's the same reason Fichtner doesn't field questions at the weekly presser. Tomlin is ultimately responsible for every decision his coordinators make. And he is ultimately responsible for the well being and effectiveness of his players.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:39 am 
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Bell does not have a point, he has another excuse.

I've already responded in a previous thread. What's more troubling is when fans start to buy into this madness. It's simple, super super simple, the player has 100% control of their limit on playing. Bell is not the only running back and he knows it. Take a knee, hold up a hand, take yourself out, be dizzy, etc.

Please stop trying to support this notation and think about the statement Bell made earlier in the year...

"I"m going to have the best season of my career..." or something very similar. The only way you have the best year of your career is to exceed the previous high mark. Either he's figured out how to get more yards per carry and reduce his touches, or he gets a lot more carries to make up for it. Oh by the way, "I'll be there at the start of the season..." He made these statements knowing he's tagged and no more deals are possible.

What changed? Did the anticipate workload somehow going way up?

Greed, simply greed. He saw some big deals come through that he believes supports his big payday. That's it, nothing more. He wants the Steelers to show him more money. This is NOT about carries and workload.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:59 am 
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So why not take the money offered then? Why turn the situation into a trainwreck? If Bell's point is to act like a selfish, inconsiderate fool then yeah, I agree he has a point.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:56 am 
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7forSteel wrote:
955876 wrote:
You think Belichick sits in anticipation wondering what his OC, RB coach, and players are going to decide to do over the course of a game or season?

Think Parcells sat back and let his players dictate their carries and when?

Walsh?

Noll?

I don’t.

And it’s ridiculous for anyone else to think that.

1) players can’t be trusted to come out when tired or dinged. Some simply won’t.
2) it’s literally the HC freaking job to manage this aspect of his personal and the game in general.

I’m not saying if a Rb says hey I’m winded they can’t take themselves out.

Let’s not forget many players have number of carries, yards, TDs, etc etc as part of their contracts.

So ya, I fully trust my 23 year old player that’s got $$$ on the line literally ied to their individual production to tell me the HC what’s best.

This is dumb to even discuss.

That's your opinion, and it's fine.

But I remember the Chin holding back the Bus and others late in games even when they were fresh. They would be going for their helmet and he would wave them off. See, you missed my point. This isn't about the players. It's about the HC. He has that title for a reason. It's the same reason Fichtner doesn't field questions at the weekly presser. Tomlin is ultimately responsible for every decision his coordinators make. And he is ultimately responsible for the well being and effectiveness of his players.


Ummmm my last post and your last post addressing mine are saying the exact same thing. I fully agree with your last post. It is about the HC. He is responsible for this stuff. Sure he can delegate but if he isn’t seeing what he wants it takes but a moment to say something about it.

When I say it’s dumb to even talk about, what I’m saying is that it’s dumb for some to think the ultimate responsibility doesnt lie with the HC.

That stuff the poster before me posted about Fitchner taking he blame for not rotating backs doesn’t support his opinion it reinforces mine as it would show Tomlin wasn’t even talking to Ditchner about this stuff. Just watching the game unfold like the rest of us.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:57 am 
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955876 wrote:
7forSteel wrote:
955876 wrote:
You think Belichick sits in anticipation wondering what his OC, RB coach, and players are going to decide to do over the course of a game or season?

Think Parcells sat back and let his players dictate their carries and when?

Walsh?

Noll?

I don’t.

And it’s ridiculous for anyone else to think that.

1) players can’t be trusted to come out when tired or dinged. Some simply won’t.
2) it’s literally the HC freaking job to manage this aspect of his personal and the game in general.

I’m not saying if a Rb says hey I’m winded they can’t take themselves out.

Let’s not forget many players have number of carries, yards, TDs, etc etc as part of their contracts.

So ya, I fully trust my 23 year old player that’s got $$$ on the line literally ied to their individual production to tell me the HC what’s best.

This is dumb to even discuss.

That's your opinion, and it's fine.

But I remember the Chin holding back the Bus and others late in games even when they were fresh. They would be going for their helmet and he would wave them off. See, you missed my point. This isn't about the players. It's about the HC. He has that title for a reason. It's the same reason Fichtner doesn't field questions at the weekly presser. Tomlin is ultimately responsible for every decision his coordinators make. And he is ultimately responsible for the well being and effectiveness of his players.


Ummmm my last post and your last post addressing mine are saying the exact same thing. I fully agree with your last post. It is about the HC. He is responsible for this stuff. Sure he can delegate but if he isn’t seeing what he wants it takes but a moment to say something about it.

When I say it’s dumb to even talk about, what I’m saying is that it’s dumb for some to think the ultimate responsibility doesnt lie with the HC.

That stuff the poster before me posted about Fitchner taking he blame for not rotating backs doesn’t support his opinion it reinforces mine as it would show Tomlin wasn’t even talking to Ditchner about this stuff. Just watching the game unfold like the rest of us.

Gotcha. I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying it was dumb to discuss this entire issue. Yeah, totally agree that it all falls on Tomlin's shoulders.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:25 am 
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If Bell didn't get the bell cow touches he would bitch that the Steelers were limiting his touches and fucking with his money

Bell would have got his deal done if he didn't smoke green like Cheech and Chong.

The Steelers don't trust him...I don't blame them.

I smoke dope like Cheech and Chong and I named a fucking dog after Bell so I am the furthest thing from a hater

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:25 pm 
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Bell does not have a point.

Ask offensive lineman and defensive lineman about "overuse" and the long term affects on their career and health. Those guys taking the kind of beatings in a game and over their career that Bell can't even imagine. Also, guys who miss games from suspensions and crap really shouldn't be talking about overuse when their infractions limit use (i.e. total absence) over certain games.

I agree that the Coach has to be smart in how he plays anyone so they are available and can produce all year long, particularly come playoff time. But that has nothing to do with Bell. Your argument is a red herring and has nothing to do with Bell being "right" or wrong."


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:06 pm 
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two faced fuck i cant wait till he is an ex steeler


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Bell's point to give up more money by the week is made. Missed his 4pm deadline.
Quote:
@AndrewBrandt
Le'Veon Bell now about two hours away from 4pm ET deadline to report or forfeit another $885,000, which it looks like he'll lose. And as a former agent, I just don't get it. https://twitter.com/AndrewBrandt/status ... 0066167808
Stuck on Stupid?
Quote:
Bell's lost revenue is now over $1.7 million for missing this season's first two games. https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1040995743316803584


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:44 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Bell's point to give up more money by the week is made. Missed his 4pm deadline.


He still has almost 80 minutes :D

I wonder how long this goes, because it's a safe bet he knows PIT will use the exemption and make him practice for 2 weeks without getting paid. Which means he might sign right before the bye week, which might only result in 1 more lost check and only 1 week of practice before playing.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:35 pm 
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Silly question but what happens with the money? Charity?


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 Post subject: Re: Bell Does Have A Point
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:53 pm 
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Back to the cap.

Steelers should be $12M under.


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