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 Post subject: 6 Turnovers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:21 pm 
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Ok Boys.
Last diagnostic thread of the week.
And then on to KC.

The only way the Browns could have stayed close was with turnovers.

Hope the PS look at the game tape, play design, play call, packages, etc.....and learn from these mistakes. Turnovers are on players. What leads up to those turnovers are also on coaches.

The 6 turnovers.

1. Bad Ben. 1st and 10 at the 18. Red Zone turnovers are killers. They take 7 to minimum 3 points off the board. Was 3 points the difference in winning 24-21? Red Zone effeciency has doomed the PS the past few years. 1st and 10, rolling out, trying to extend the play, trying to squeeze in to AB, not a play a 15 year vet makes. Throw it away. see video attached or Youtube video at :32 second mark.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2018090901/2018/REG1/steelers@browns?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000959349&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

2. The long Ben INT. With Ben and AB on the same page, seeing single coverage and the middle of the field wide open, a 10-12-15 yard slant would have went 30+ yards and who knows with AB in the open field may have gone much longer or for 7. No need to throw the ball 60 yards in the air on a this type of day. Not smart football. Get out of deep enemy territory. Where is the communication between these two, the audible or I'm sure playing together into their 9th year, they must have a quick gesture that indicates slant. Steelers heavy package, 2 TE, FB, run look. 8 defenders in the box, tight in the box, all 8 with-in 3 yards of LOS, 9th guy ( S ) 7 yards of ball on opposite side of AB. Screamed quick 10 yard slant to AB with middle of field wide open. I put this on Ben, AB and in game coaching and situational awareness. See link below or Youtube video at 2:58 mark.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2018090901/2018/REG1/steelers@browns?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000959450&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

3. Jessie James INT. Ball went thru his hands. It was a quick read. Needs to catch that. I am not down on JJ. he is a pretty good #2. He knew it was his fault, as I believe he made the tackle on the INT and immediatley put his hands on his helmet as to say it was his bad. still think he will be a big part of the passing game to provide some quick hit 5-7 yard pitch and catches between hash marks. Big target. Do not have specific video. Youtube video at 4:08 mark.

4. The Connor fumble. This was 4th quarter, Steelers up 21-7, 7:44 left in game. First attempt at starting a drive to kill clock. Heavy package, 2 TE, FB. There is a better overhead video of this play, if anyone has it, please add to thread. Just a poor play / technique by Villy. Do not know what he was thinking. Basically comes out of his stance with a big right hand swinging punch to Garrets shoulder. All he needed to do was get out of his stance and get two hands up on Garrett, as the play was going to the opposite side. What was Villy thinking. Play was still not going anywhere with a stacked box and an opposing OC / Haley knowing his former coaches tendencies to turtle. Right side penetration would have sent this run for a loss. From this carry on, Connor had 8 carries for 14 yards. 23 carries for 121 yards prior to the offensive slow down. 8 carries for 14 yards in heavy set turtle mode packages.
Youtube video below at 8:00 mark.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2018090901/2018/REG1/steelers@browns?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000959728&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

5. The Ben strip sack fumble by Garrett. This was 4th quarter, Steelers up 21-14, 7:32 left in game. 12 second later. Second attempt at starting a drive to kill clock with a run. Bad snap below the knees killed any success of this play. Bad blocking scheme. Terrible blocking scheme. Any blocking scheme that leaves the opposing teams best player un-blocked at the LOS is asking for trouble. Villy downblocks the guard while leaving Garrett a free path to Ben. As Decastro is tasked to be quicker than Garret by stepping back, pulling and trying to sprint 5 yards to intercept Garrett, who only had to run in a straight line at Ben. Not smart play design, play call at all. How do you give the opponents best defender a clear path to the QB. This play was supposed to be a draw to Connor with DD kicking out Garrett. We saw the speed of Garrett earlier in the game when he dropped back into coverage about 5-7 yards, followed JuJu a few yards, before stopping, changing direction and sprinting 15+ yards to hit Ben on the play that drew a flag. Youtube video below at 2:00 mark. Maybe a good snap and JC gets the handoff and DD gets in position to block MG. There was a lot of running room. One other note on this play. notice the spacing for a run play when we had 3 WR in the game, rather than 2 TE, FB with tight formations.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2018090901/2018/REG1/steelers@browns?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000959723&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

6. OT. - Ben sack, ball pops up for return into FG territory. Gilbert just did not get out of stance and his guy blew by him forcing Ben to step up. With 2 defenders showing A gap blitz looks, Connor had to step up to help Pouncey with the immediate and closest threat to the pocket and Ben. Ben stepped up and was looking deep. Would have to see the all 22 ( anyone ?) but seemed like all 3 WR were running 15-20+ yard routes? looked like all three WR wound up running to the same vicinity, tightening the field even more. Line of scrimmage was our own 38. With :48 seconds in OT, 1 time out in hand, maybe 10-12 yards and pick up the first, get to mid field. Pre-snap, Play Clock was not rolling, still 16 seconds on play clock. Plenty of time. Browns showing possibly 6 guys rushing the passer, with 2 blitzers, 9 defenders pretty close to LOS................Audible? Adjust a WR out further, put one in motion? Audible to a hot read, after seeing the 6 man rush?
Youtube video below at 11:15 mark



Thats all I got.
Last diagnostic thread of the week,
On to Cleveland. Hopefully we got enough bad football out of the way for the rest of the first half.

Trivia.
77.
I know you are pretty good at these, but no pressure.

What was the last Steelers game in which they turned the ball over 6 or more times and did not lose?

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 Post subject: Re: 6 Turnovers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Stosh-67 wrote:
6. OT. - Ben sack, ball pops up for return into FG territory. Gilbert just did not get out of stance and his guy blew by him forcing Ben to step up. With 2 defenders showing A gap blitz looks, Connor had to step up to help Pouncey with the immediate and closest threat to the pocket and Ben. Ben stepped up and was looking deep. Would have to see the all 22 ( anyone ?) but seemed like all 3 WR were running 15-20+ yard routes?


The shortest route was AB who broke open about 14 yds downfield over the middle. He ran to the safety with the CB on his hip, made contact with the safety, did a 360 spin to the inside and lost both of them. Got very open with room to run.

Washington and JuJu were both on deep routes... Washington to the corner, JuJu to the post.

I can't tell for sure where Ben was going with the football.


Last edited by Havoc on Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 6 Turnovers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:52 pm 
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Quote:
I can't tell for sure where Ben was going with the football.


Don’t be hard on yourself. Ben couldn’t tell you either.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 Turnovers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:56 pm 
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The pre and post-turtle stats for Conner are telling

Reeks of dumbfuckedness

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 Post subject: Re: 6 Turnovers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:53 pm 
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Good thread.

1.
Quote:
1st and 10, rolling out, trying to extend the play, trying to squeeze in to AB, not a play a 15 year vet makes.

worst play of the day... but, bear in mind, Tom Brady did nearly the same thing late last year... think it was vs Miami. It happens. Hopefully not too often!

2. Play as called had every eligible receiver wide open, so I don't think it was a bad call. AB's route was a stop or stutter and go, to which AB added (apparently unnecessarily) a skinny post across the safety's face vs C3. Yes, some of it is WR read it one way and WR read it the other, but when Ben let go of that ball it was a huge play with AB 5 yards behind the D. Blame it on lack of practicing that play together-- Ben said they hadn't practiced it that week.

4.
Quote:
Basically comes out of his stance with a big right hand swinging punch to Garrets shoulder. All he needed to do was get out of his stance and get two hands up on Garrett, as the play was going to the opposite side. What was Villy thinking.

that's normal operating procedure on a run the other way with ZBS. Villy's job is to bump Garrett and get his momentum going in the wrong direction, then get upfield to second level.

5. pretty sure that is a PA pass and not a draw. On PA, often the pulling guard is responsible for a molly block-- pulling and pass blocking the opposite side edge. The Steelers do this a couple of times every game for years. Decastro is an All-Pro guard, who might be the best pulling guard in the NFL. It's not unreasonable for him to be tasked to make that block; for whatever reason he was just slow or awkward getting there and, because of low snap, Garrett wasn't slowed by the PA. Those two things probably go together. I'd put that TO squarely on Pouncey.

6. on all-22, you can see that Ben recognizes Gilbert has whiffed, steps up in the pocket and has no one immediately open. Ben actually anticipates AB coming open off a spin move (in the center of the field, maybe10 yards downfield) and tries to get it to him, getting strip sacked just as the ball is about to come out. It was probably a tenth of a second from being a huge play that probably ends the game with a Steelers win.

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 Post subject: Re: 6 Turnovers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:54 pm 
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Havoc wrote:
Excellent breakdown, Stosh

Stosh-67 wrote:
6. OT. - Ben sack, ball pops up for return into FG territory. Gilbert just did not get out of stance and his guy blew by him forcing Ben to step up. With 2 defenders showing A gap blitz looks, Connor had to step up to help Pouncey with the immediate and closest threat to the pocket and Ben. Ben stepped up and was looking deep. Would have to see the all 22 ( anyone ?) but seemed like all 3 WR were running 15-20+ yard routes?


The shortest route was AB who broke open about 14 yds downfield over the middle. He ran to the safety with the CB on his hip, made contact with the safety, did a 360 spin to the inside and lost both of them. Got very open with room to run.

Washington and JuJu were both on deep routes... Washington to the corner, JuJu to the post.

I can't tell for sure where Ben was going with the football.

on the all-22, it's obvious he's going to AB... Ben actually starts to throw before AB comes open but he saw that AB would be the first guy open, and for a huge play.

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 Post subject: Re: 6 Turnovers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:57 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
I can't tell for sure where Ben was going with the football.


Don’t be hard on yourself. Ben couldn’t tell you either.


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Suwanee88 wrote:
But it’s your fault that you are kind of a stubborn jagoff that would argue with a fence post


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 Post subject: Re: 6 Turnovers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:10 pm 
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:lol: :lol:

Well done B2B. Well done.

That was hilarious. Hadn’t seen it before.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 Turnovers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:19 pm 
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955876 wrote:
:lol: :lol:

Well done B2B. Well done.

That was hilarious. Hadn’t seen it before.

Salut!

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 Post subject: Re: 6 Turnovers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:46 pm 
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Jesse James is a fuckin' turd.

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