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 Post subject: Re: Winners & Losers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:07 am 
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SP wrote:
Here is how the RB carry distribution looked by playoff contenders this week, starting back carries and backup rb carries.

Falcon 9-6
Eagles 15-5-5
49ers 12-11
Vikings 16-11
Patriots 18-5-4
Texans 20-8-5
Ravens 13-7-4
Chiefs 16-3
Chargers 15-5
Seahawks 7-7
Broncos 15-15
Panthers 10-7

Steelers 31-0

Teams give about 1/3 of their carries to backups in normal situations. The Steelers went with 0% in a game where the starter took a heavy workload. It’s not like he was going from Le’Veon Bell to Fitz Touissant, he was going from a guy making his first career start to a solid veteran backup.


Because Tomlin.
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Until the wheels fall off
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.
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.
Such is life in the NFL
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.


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Got red paint, paint your barn red.


Wow. That is so telling.

So we had a worn down RB running into stacked boxes against a fired up and capable defense with a playmaker making plays.


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 Post subject: Re: Winners & Losers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:21 am 
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Upon rewatch of the game and looking at some post game charting, James Washington has to get into the lineup quick because Justin Hunter had a real poor outing.

Ben targeted him 5 times and he had one catch for 6 yards. That is a catch percentage of 20, that is not going to get it done. Bryant had a pretty disappointing season last year but at least he caught some 59.5% of his targets but still averaged woeful 12.0 yards per catch.

That outside WR has to stretch the field, has to be more of a threat to open things up, shift some safeties, some coverage. I wonder how long they are going to give Hunter this season as the #3?

I also wish they would feature and target JuJu more, Brown had 16 targets, JuJu had half of that, just 8 targets, but he had 5 catches for 119 yards. I keep harping on this but this offense needs to spread the ball around more, targeting Brown so much may make those that have him on their fantasy team happy, but it does not necessarily make for a productive offense.

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 Post subject: Re: Winners & Losers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:26 am 
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Scunge wrote:
Upon rewatch of the game and looking at some post game charting, James Washington has to get into the lineup quick because Justin Hunter had a real poor outing.

Ben targeted him 5 times and he had one catch for 6 yards. That is a catch percentage of 20, that is not going to get it done. Bryant had a pretty disappointing season last year but at least he caught some 59.5% of his targets but still averaged woeful 12.0 yards per catch.

That outside WR has to stretch the field, has to be more of a threat to open things up, shift some safeties, some coverage. I wonder how long they are going to give Hunter this season as the #3?

I also wish they would feature and target JuJu more, Brown had 16 targets, JuJu had half of that, just 8 targets, but he had 5 catches for 119 yards. I keep harping on this but this offense needs to spread the ball around more, targeting Brown so much may make those that have him on their fantasy team happy, but it does not necessarily make for a productive offense.

Hunter was targeted 5 times for 6 yards. One of those was a Touchdown stolen by the refs on a holding call. The others were not catchable passes thrown to him, am I wrong here?


Last edited by Stallworth16 on Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Winners & Losers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:32 am 
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Where are you getting 6 catches from? He had one catch for 6 yards. One.

The thing about Hunter that I have noticed is that he is a lot like Mike Wallace was, a very narrow catch radius, don't expect him to fight for catches or to be able to contort and reach for catches like say a JuJu.

Washington and what he could do was on display in the preseason, he has JuJu's ability to snatch the ball, to climb the ladder to catch passes, to do combat catches. He also showed the ability to get separation, to get behind the defense. I saw none of that from Hunter against Cleveland.

Again, I get that Ben likes Hunter but then he liked Eli Rogers too, and Rogers turned out to be a bum.

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 Post subject: Re: Winners & Losers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:37 am 
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I’m multi tasking right now. meant 6 yards. Not 6 catches. The point stands. Hunter caught every catchable pass thrown to him, one for a holding TD.


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 Post subject: Re: Winners & Losers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:49 am 
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Sean Davis had a good game.

D didn’t do a good job containing tyrod Taylor. Besides the mess that was turnovers Taylor did too much with his legs, including of course one of their tds.

Truth is steelers under tomlin are just not an intelligent team.


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 Post subject: Re: Winners & Losers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:02 am 
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Stallworth16 wrote:
I’m multi tasking right now. meant 6 yards. Not 6 catches. The point stands. Hunter caught every catchable pass thrown to him, one for a holding TD.



It is all good, don't worry about it Stallworth16. I understand your point but also what is a catchable pass? Were the two TD passes that Washington had in the preseason, you know which ones I am talking about, those probably had no business being caught by James and yet he did anyway. He went up and did a combative catch, took the ball away from the defender.

Some players just have it, are able to fight for catches, are able to make themselves an inviting target, are able to get separation, I did not see any of that from Hunter but saw plenty of that from Washington in the preseason and in college. They need to forget about this experiment with Hunter and get James out there as the #3.

That #3 outside WR, that Bryant/Wallace type is supposed to take the top off of defenses, is supposed to draw away coverages, Hunter did not do that, there was no fear or respect from Cleveland. That has to change, we can't continue with Hunter because Ben likes him, he liked Rogers too, but who ultimately was the better slot WR last season? I just see deja vu with Hunter and Washington, James will take the job sooner or later, but they need to make it sooner, it is crucial to get off to a fast start this season.

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 Post subject: Re: Winners & Losers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:11 am 
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I have been saying Hunter is a 5th or 6th WR for 2 years now.
He has a very limited route tree.
Long and lanky, but not smooth or quick in route.
He is not going to make big catches over the middle.
Has not shown the ability to win contested balls.
Watched him warm up in person at the regular season Jags game last. :(
What a miserable ride home.
Anyway. the 6'-4" 203 # Hunter looked every bit of 190 pounds. And does not have the bulk to win contested deep balls, nor the physical skills to quickly adjust to off target passes.

I said he was a one route guy. And for the most part over the last 2 years, he has been a go route down the right side, route runner.
And whenever he came in the game last year, it was almost certain that Ben had his mind made up before breaking huddle, that the pass play was going to Hunter on a go route down the right sideline.
May speak to more of the simpleness of the coaching, play design and play calling / mentality of the OC and QB.

I was surprised to see Hunter run a little out pattern on the left sideline.

But after the pre-season that Washington had, it was puzzling to see Washington ride the bench and not at least get some shared snaps.

Biggest problem.
Tomlin loves him some Vets.
Loves the veteran players even if its to the detriment of the team.
Will have a roster spot for those guys until its painfully obvious the player can no longer contribute.

I am hopefully assuming that Tomlin is just making Washington earn his dues, damn the team success,
While giving the trusted vet another shot at #3.

After all,
Ju Ju did not get any targets in his first game last year.
But then again, we were only playing the Browns in the opener.
No need to get your best team on the field.

Easing in..........

Thats pre-season, game plan, players, scheme, intensity, best player on the field, etc. etc............

That being said,
Hunter is a capable #4 or #5 WR.
Keep in mind, a #4 and #5 WR are guys that need to be ST players to get a helmet.

But a #4 and #5 can quickly become a #3 WR in a long NFL season.
We do not want to be in a situation where Hunter is taking the majority of snaps at WR #3

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 Post subject: Re: Winners & Losers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:43 am 
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Well said, Stosh, but unfortunately for this Cleveland game Hunter saw I think 61% of the offensive snaps as that 3rd WR? And he had 1 catch for 6 yards?

That is unacceptable.

I will give some love to Marty Bryant, he may have had some games like that too, but there was fear and respect too by the opposing defense. Sometimes the stat sheet doesn't show the complete value of that outside 3rd WR in our offense. If he is able to command double coverage, if a safety has to cheat to his side then it opens things up elsewhere on offense. Justin Hunter is not that type of player to demand that type of attention.

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 Post subject: Re: Winners & Losers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:54 am 
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Havoc wrote:
SP wrote:
Here is how the RB carry distribution looked by playoff contenders this week, starting back carries and backup rb carries.

Falcon 9-6
Eagles 15-5-5
49ers 12-11
Vikings 16-11
Patriots 18-5-4
Texans 20-8-5
Ravens 13-7-4
Chiefs 16-3
Chargers 15-5
Seahawks 7-7
Broncos 15-15
Panthers 10-7

Steelers 31-0

Teams give about 1/3 of their carries to backups in normal situations. The Steelers went with 0% in a game where the starter took a heavy workload. It’s not like he was going from Le’Veon Bell to Fitz Touissant, he was going from a guy making his first career start to a solid veteran backup.


Because Tomlin.
.
.
Until the wheels fall off
.
.
.
.
.
Such is life in the NFL
.
.


.
.
.
Got red paint, paint your barn red.


Wow. That is so telling.

So we had a worn down RB running into stacked boxes against a fired up and capable defense with a playmaker making plays.


In a game full of badness the back rotation might be the single biggest strategic mistake.

I said last week if they pretend Conner is bell it’s a recipe for .500 ball. I fucking knew they’d do it though. I thought we could squeeze by a 5th preseason game vs the browns. But too many coaching and execution errors. RB rotation is biggest in my eyes


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