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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:04 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
Outside of some new coaches and rookies, this is the same defense that was destroyed by Jax who I believe got better in the off season.

I will believe it when I see it with these guys.


Actually, I don't think they did on offense. They spent their first rounder on a dlineman, a 3rd on a safety, & signed no one of note in FA on O. Spent a 2nd on a long, gangly speed merchant in Chark. Who I didn't like at all (doesn't mean he won't be good of course). Jags also lost Hurns, Lewis, and Bortles has been awful in camp (yes I read Jags camp reports: shoot me now). I like Fournette and think he will have a good season due to the volume of carries, however, he is not exactly lightening fast and meh in the passing game. It means Bortles will have to rely on the rarely healthy Lee, some JAGs (Cole & Westbrook) and a rookie in Chark that unlike Washington hasn't flashed much at all. At TE they have a bunch of no names and ASJenkins the perennial has all the tools never plays like it guy. Oline is ok but not great. I expect teams to load the box and say to Bortles: "Go ahead make my day." I see the Jags as a mirror image of Cowher teams without the oline to match with a better secondary.

To win and get to an SB you have to have superior offense talent somewhere. Jags have no one who scares you. Jags Defense is great, however, they are prone to really bad games and if it comes in the playoffs I doubt they'll survive ...unless they face the PS :). Jags have gotten a ton of press in playoffs and pre-season. Yet none has covered what happened in that PS game. Probably bc there is no way to spin what Ben & Steeler offense did to them, once PS offense got collective heads out their asses ...eviscerated them all over the field.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:06 pm 
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steelclan wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Outside of some new coaches and rookies, this is the same defense that was destroyed by Jax who I believe got better in the off season.

I will believe it when I see it with these guys.


Actually, I don't think they did on offense. They spent their first rounder on a dlineman, a 3rd on a safety, & signed no one of note in FA on O. Spent a 2nd on a long, gangly speed merchant in Chark. Who I didn't like at all (doesn't mean he won't be good of course). Jags also lost Hurns, Lewis, and Bortles has been awful in camp (yes I read Jags camp reports: shoot me now). I like Fournette and think he will have a good season due to the volume of carries, however, he is not exactly lightening fast and meh in the passing game. It means Bortles will have to rely on the rarely healthy Lee, some JAGs (Cole & Westbrook) and a rookie in Chark that unlike Washington hasn't flashed much at all. At TE they have a bunch of no names and ASJenkins the perennial has all the tools never plays like it guy. Oline is ok but not great. I expect teams to load the box and say to Bortles: "Go ahead make my day." I see the Jags as a mirror image of Cowher teams without the oline to match with a better secondary.

To win and get to an SB you have to have superior offense talent somewhere. Jags have no one who scares you. Jags Defense is great, however, they are prone to really bad games and if it comes in the playoffs I doubt they'll survive ...unless they face the PS :). Jags have gotten a ton of press in playoffs and pre-season. Yet none has covered what happened in that PS game. Probably bc there is no way to spin what Ben & Steeler offense did to them, once PS offense got collective heads out their asses ...eviscerated them all over the field.

I thought they signed a significant FA OL? Anyway if their OL is ho hum, then what does that say about our DL? They pushed our DL around badly in that game.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:47 pm 
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steelclan wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Outside of some new coaches and rookies, this is the same defense that was destroyed by Jax who I believe got better in the off season.

I will believe it when I see it with these guys.


Actually, I don't think they did on offense. They spent their first rounder on a dlineman, a 3rd on a safety, & signed no one of note in FA on O. Spent a 2nd on a long, gangly speed merchant in Chark. Who I didn't like at all (doesn't mean he won't be good of course). Jags also lost Hurns, Lewis, and Bortles has been awful in camp (yes I read Jags camp reports: shoot me now). I like Fournette and think he will have a good season due to the volume of carries, however, he is not exactly lightening fast and meh in the passing game. It means Bortles will have to rely on the rarely healthy Lee, some JAGs (Cole & Westbrook) and a rookie in Chark that unlike Washington hasn't flashed much at all. At TE they have a bunch of no names and ASJenkins the perennial has all the tools never plays like it guy. Oline is ok but not great. I expect teams to load the box and say to Bortles: "Go ahead make my day." I see the Jags as a mirror image of Cowher teams without the oline to match with a better secondary.

To win and get to an SB you have to have superior offense talent somewhere. Jags have no one who scares you. Jags Defense is great, however, they are prone to really bad games and if it comes in the playoffs I doubt they'll survive ...unless they face the PS :). Jags have gotten a ton of press in playoffs and pre-season. Yet none has covered what happened in that PS game. Probably bc there is no way to spin what Ben & Steeler offense did to them, once PS offense got collective heads out their asses ...eviscerated them all over the field.


You failed to mention Allen Robinson will be back


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:52 pm 
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Hinestuff wrote:
steelclan wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Outside of some new coaches and rookies, this is the same defense that was destroyed by Jax who I believe got better in the off season.

I will believe it when I see it with these guys.


Actually, I don't think they did on offense. They spent their first rounder on a dlineman, a 3rd on a safety, & signed no one of note in FA on O. Spent a 2nd on a long, gangly speed merchant in Chark. Who I didn't like at all (doesn't mean he won't be good of course). Jags also lost Hurns, Lewis, and Bortles has been awful in camp (yes I read Jags camp reports: shoot me now). I like Fournette and think he will have a good season due to the volume of carries, however, he is not exactly lightening fast and meh in the passing game. It means Bortles will have to rely on the rarely healthy Lee, some JAGs (Cole & Westbrook) and a rookie in Chark that unlike Washington hasn't flashed much at all. At TE they have a bunch of no names and ASJenkins the perennial has all the tools never plays like it guy. Oline is ok but not great. I expect teams to load the box and say to Bortles: "Go ahead make my day." I see the Jags as a mirror image of Cowher teams without the oline to match with a better secondary.

To win and get to an SB you have to have superior offense talent somewhere. Jags have no one who scares you. Jags Defense is great, however, they are prone to really bad games and if it comes in the playoffs I doubt they'll survive ...unless they face the PS :). Jags have gotten a ton of press in playoffs and pre-season. Yet none has covered what happened in that PS game. Probably bc there is no way to spin what Ben & Steeler offense did to them, once PS offense got collective heads out their asses ...eviscerated them all over the field.


You failed to mention Allen Robinson will be back


He will.....with the Bears.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:54 pm 
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Off topic, but who told Eric Mangini it was okay to wear a leprechaun wig on FS1 this morning?


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:21 pm 
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steelclan wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Outside of some new coaches and rookies, this is the same defense that was destroyed by Jax who I believe got better in the off season.

I will believe it when I see it with these guys.


Actually, I don't think they did on offense. They spent their first rounder on a dlineman, a 3rd on a safety, & signed no one of note in FA on O. Spent a 2nd on a long, gangly speed merchant in Chark. Who I didn't like at all (doesn't mean he won't be good of course). Jags also lost Hurns, Lewis, and Bortles has been awful in camp (yes I read Jags camp reports: shoot me now). I like Fournette and think he will have a good season due to the volume of carries, however, he is not exactly lightening fast and meh in the passing game. It means Bortles will have to rely on the rarely healthy Lee, some JAGs (Cole & Westbrook) and a rookie in Chark that unlike Washington hasn't flashed much at all. At TE they have a bunch of no names and ASJenkins the perennial has all the tools never plays like it guy. Oline is ok but not great. I expect teams to load the box and say to Bortles: "Go ahead make my day." I see the Jags as a mirror image of Cowher teams without the oline to match with a better secondary.

To win and get to an SB you have to have superior offense talent somewhere. Jags have no one who scares you. Jags Defense is great, however, they are prone to really bad games and if it comes in the playoffs I doubt they'll survive ...unless they face the PS :). Jags have gotten a ton of press in playoffs and pre-season. Yet none has covered what happened in that PS game. Probably bc there is no way to spin what Ben & Steeler offense did to them, once PS offense got collective heads out their asses ...eviscerated them all over the field.

I don't know Clan. Using a Tomlinism, I think they are a team on the come. Their D is what it is....very, very good. I actually think Bortles is improving, the game is finally slowing down for him mentally and his mobility really helps their OLine and TE/WRs.. Their O Line is a big mauling group and not asked to pass protect all that long, which benefits them. They are serviceable and deep at TE, Fournette will be even better, Yeldon is OK and Grant is way underrated. Their WR group is underrated imo. Lee is pretty decent, Westbrook is getting better and is starting to catch everything in his radius, Moncrief can be above average when used properly (limited routes), Green = Eli Rogers and Chark will be inconsistent but make splash plays. They may not stretch the field all that much (Chark will now) but they can work the ball down the field pretty effectively with the PA pass. Coughlin has quietly done a very good job down there, imo. Although, I'm sure it's been easier when you haven't had to pay a franchise QB for the last four years.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:28 pm 
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:oops: And I have a live auction fantasy draft on Wednesday night.

It further strengthens your point 'Clan.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:39 pm 
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You failed to mention Allen Robinson will be back[/quote]

Yep because he plays for the Bears.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:08 pm 
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Hinestuff wrote:
:oops: And I have a live auction fantasy draft on Wednesday night.

It further strengthens your point 'Clan.


Draft Chris Carson.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:19 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
Well, for me, I fully expect things to be very bumpy in the first half of the season on defense. How can they not be? Many of you need to temper your expectations in the first half of the season because there are going to be growing pains, mistakes, lessons that have to be learned. Look at what has transpired or will transpire heading into the season.

1. Lake and John Mitchell are gone.
2. Dunbar and Bradley are newly hired position coaches that replaced them.
3. Mike Mitchell, Robert Golden, JJ Wilcox and Willie Gay are gone from the secondary.
4. Sean Davis is being moved to FS, they brought in Morgan Burnett to play SS and drafted Terrell Edmunds in the first round.
5. They are moving TJ Watt to LOLB to better maximize his skills and moving Bud Dupree to ROLB to hopefully likewise do the same.
6. With Gay gone, it is next man up with players like Cam Sutton and Brian Allen that will now be getting playing time. Hilton is the undisputed nickel CB but there are times when a 4th CB is on the field.
7. Jon Bostic was brought in not to replace Shazier but to at least not be the liability that Sean Spence was.

That is a lot of moving parts, a lot of pieces to the puzzle of crafting a great defense. It is not going to just come together in the first game of the regular season, or the 2nd, or the 6th. No, it will be a process and a 16 game season is a long length of time, a lot of growth and player development can happen from game one to game 16 and into the playoffs.

You look at the development of Mike Hilton last season. Or the development of JuJu. They were not just studs from the first game, fully realized dominant playmakers, no, it took time for them to get their bearings and develop and they did so rapidly.

What the defense will look like at the end of the season and what it looks like at the beginning will be like night and day. For those expecting a finalized dominant defense on opening day are setting themselves up for disappointment. You can't just decide to play more man to man coverage for example and expect them to be great at it in short order. There are going to be trying times ahead as players get burned, but learn and get better at it.

Agree. The Steelers will likely struggle the first half of the season. When it happens, we'll get the sarcastic "we're easing into the season" and "Tomlin sucks because he can't have his team ready early in the season" remarks. And I'm sure we'll lose some game we "should" win. Takes time to put new pieces together. What matters is how they're playing in December and January.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:21 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
remember when Philly shredded us in Preseason game 3... and then the defense finished 11th overall that year? They had some holes but figured out how to make it work well enough to win.

I don't think this defense is as bad as that one.


And then Jacksonville happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:22 pm 
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I don't know Clan. Using a Tomlinism, I think they are a team on the come. Their D is what it is....very, very good. I actually think Bortles is improving, the game is finally slowing down for him mentally and his mobility really helps their OLine and TE/WRs.. Their O Line is a big mauling group and not asked to pass protect all that long, which benefits them. They are serviceable and deep at TE, Fournette will be even better, Yeldon is OK and Grant is way underrated. Their WR group is underrated imo. Lee is pretty decent, Westbrook is getting better and is starting to catch everything in his radius, Moncrief can be above average when used properly (limited routes), Green = Eli Rogers and Chark will be inconsistent but make splash plays. They may not stretch the field all that much (Chark will now) but they can work the ball down the field pretty effectively with the PA pass. Coughlin has quietly done a very good job down there, imo. Although, I'm sure it's been easier when you haven't had to pay a franchise QB for the last four years.[/quote]

TE group is seriously meh. Not sure where you're seeing anything beyond ok and that is a stretch.
As noted Chark has had a poor camp and done very little in pre-season games to suggest otherwise.
Fournette much as I like him averaged 3.9 YPC last season. Yes, nice backups, especially Yeldon but they will be seeing a ton of visitors in the backfield this season.
The oline has a good center, an ok OT, ok OG and two below average starters. It is not a stellar group.
Bortles has struggled in camp as well. Not sure where you're hearing he has improved. Damn sure didn't look that way in Vikes game where he tossed a signature WTF Int.
WRs group lacks a big-time playmaker. Maybe Chark can be that later but right now he is not ready. Westbrook had 379 yards last season, I realize he was a rookie but I saw nothing to make me think he can be much more than a possession WR with nice route running skills. He would struggle to make PS roster.
Lee cannot stay healthy and even when he is? He is one of the poorer #1 WRs around. He should be a #3 on a good team.
Cole maybe the best of the bunch.
I don't see anything on the offensive side of the ball to worry about. That offense will struggle against decent defenses. Yes, Jags are loaded on Defense but that offense has high potential to hold them back. Every bit as big as the potential for Steelers' D to hold them back.


Last edited by steelclan on Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:45 pm 
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Steelers missed 37 tackles in the first two games with Adeniyi missing 5. Ugly. They were supposed to concentrate on this in camp. Cam and Haden say you have to want to make tackles, wrap up and not dive at feet. So what’s to be done when players aren't getting it? Change coaches and players?


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:52 am 
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steelclan wrote:
Hinestuff wrote:
:oops: And I have a live auction fantasy draft on Wednesday night.

It further strengthens your point 'Clan.


Draft Chris Carson.


Behind that o-line, hmmmmm.....did they improve up front?


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:20 am 
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Steelergenie wrote:
Steelers missed 37 tackles in the first two games with Adeniyi missing 5. Ugly. They were supposed to concentrate on this in camp. Cam and Haden say you have to want to make tackles, wrap up and not dive at feet. So what’s to be done when players aren't getting it? Change coaches and players?

Who on earth tracked Anediyi missing 5 tackles? I want video proof.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:59 am 
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B2B Go on Depot and watch it.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:11 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Steelergenie wrote:
Steelers missed 37 tackles in the first two games with Adeniyi missing 5. Ugly. They were supposed to concentrate on this in camp. Cam and Haden say you have to want to make tackles, wrap up and not dive at feet. So what’s to be done when players aren't getting it? Change coaches and players?

Who on earth tracked Anediyi missing 5 tackles? I want video proof.


IMHO missed tackles are not all the same. Ola had 3 missed tackles I saw in last 2 games all in the backfield and all led to other Steelers making TFL. Missed tackles have become a lazy go to that PFF dry humps and its most loyal sheep trumpet. They used it to downplay Shazier. A missed tackle like one Edmunds had in open field v TE? Not good, a missed tackle that slows play down and allows others to rally and make the play? Shazier did it better than anyone in the NFL. Instead of just accepting things, context is always needed.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:17 pm 
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^^^THiS^^^

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:27 pm 
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steelclan wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Steelergenie wrote:
Steelers missed 37 tackles in the first two games with Adeniyi missing 5. Ugly. They were supposed to concentrate on this in camp. Cam and Haden say you have to want to make tackles, wrap up and not dive at feet. So what’s to be done when players aren't getting it? Change coaches and players?

Who on earth tracked Anediyi missing 5 tackles? I want video proof.


IMHO missed tackles are not all the same. Ola had 3 missed tackles I saw in last 2 games all in the backfield and all led to other Steelers making TFL. Missed tackles have become a lazy go to that PFF dry humps and its most loyal sheep trumpet. They used it to downplay Shazier. A missed tackle like one Edmunds had in open field v TE? Not good, a missed tackle that slows play down and allows others to rally and make the play? Shazier did it better than anyone in the NFL. Instead of just accepting things, context is always needed.


Good post

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:34 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
^^^THiS^^^

Right...not all missed tackles are equal.
A missed tackle by a board favorite like Adeniyi is not really a missed tackle. It is actually a good thing.
But a missed tackle by a board designated bum like Dupree, or Dirty Red, or Mike Mitchell, now that could bring about the end of civilization as we know it. They should be drug to the middle of the town square and hung at high noon!

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Havoc wrote:
steelclan wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
[quote="SteelergenieSteelers missed 37 tackles in the first two games with Adeniyi missing 5. Ugly. They were supposed to concentrate on this in camp. Cam and Haden say you have to want to make tackles, wrap up and not dive at feet. So what’s to be done when players aren't getting it? Change coaches and players?

Who on earth tracked Anediyi missing 5 tackles? I want video proof.


IMHO missed tackles are not all the same. Ola had 3 missed tackles I saw in last 2 games all in the backfield and all led to other Steelers making TFL. Missed tackles have become a lazy go to that PFF dry humps and its most loyal sheep trumpet. They used it to downplay Shazier. A missed tackle like one Edmunds had in open field v TE? Not good, a missed tackle that slows play down and allows others to rally and make the play? Shazier did it better than anyone in the NFL. Instead of just accepting things, context is always needed.


Good post[/quote]

thirded.

Context is often ignored.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:22 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
^^^THiS^^^

Right...not all missed tackles are equal.
A missed tackle by a board favorite like Adeniyi is not really a missed tackle. It is actually a good thing.
But a missed tackle by a board designated bum like Dupree, or Dirty Red, or Mike Mitchell, now that could bring about the end of civilization as we know it. They should be drug to the middle of the town square and hung at high noon!

also, ^^^THIS^^^

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:31 pm 
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You miss the point. Those 3 listed have made a career out of almost.... Almost made the tackle, almost took the right angle and almost backed up my mouth on the field in play. Adeniyi doesn't have the track record going back 4 or more years. So..., there's that!

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:31 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
You miss the point. Those 3 listed have made a career out of almost.... Almost made the tackle, almost took the right angle and almost backed up my mouth on the field in play. Adeniyi doesn't have the track record going back 4 or more years. So..., there's that!

With all due respect, it is you that misses the point. Adeniyi has missed 5 tackles in two games. He’s off to pretty good start on that track record... but the point is that there are those here that will sugar coat those mistakes because he is the next great hope of fixing the OLB problems. I get it...I just don’t buy it.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers give up 51 points
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:25 am 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Steelafan77 wrote:
You miss the point. Those 3 listed have made a career out of almost.... Almost made the tackle, almost took the right angle and almost backed up my mouth on the field in play. Adeniyi doesn't have the track record going back 4 or more years. So..., there's that!

With all due respect, it is you that misses the point. Adeniyi has missed 5 tackles in two games. He’s off to pretty good start on that track record... but the point is that there are those here that will sugar coat those mistakes because he is the next great hope of fixing the OLB problems. I get it...I just don’t buy it.

Missing the tackle because he set the edge and the runner tried to get around him? Because he should've had a sack and the QB juked him?... hardly a missed tackle in the same way as met the runner in the hole and didn't wrap up.

Ola's looked pretty damn good getting to the play, pressuring the QB, setting the edge, playing the run.

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