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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:31 am 
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StillerInCT wrote:
I don't think I can handle another year of this stupid debate clogging up the sports headlines. If they want to kneel, who gives a shit? I still have to go to work the next day and pay my bills. It has exactly 0 impact on anybody's life other than hurt feelings.


And I'm still deployed for at least the next 6 months defending their right to do it. I don't agree with it, but the beauty is that I don't have to...


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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:38 am 
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fortythree wrote:

It's not the NFL doing it.


So the NFL didn't try to enact a "No Kneeling" policy before this season that had no chance of ever flying under the radar....then rescind the same rule shortly thereafter when the NFLPA and media got up in arms all over again?

Cause I'm pretty sure they did.

And yeah, that fire would still be burning right now even they haven't, but they added their brand of gasoline to it, prolonging that flame. And that's what I'm talking about. If they don't touch it, it'll go away after a while, when the media runs out of headlines to write about it. But they can't keep supplying new headlines.


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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:53 am 
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AF Stiller Fan wrote:
StillerInCT wrote:
I don't think I can handle another year of this stupid debate clogging up the sports headlines. If they want to kneel, who gives a shit? I still have to go to work the next day and pay my bills. It has exactly 0 impact on anybody's life other than hurt feelings.


And I'm still deployed for at least the next 6 months defending their right to do it. I don't agree with it, but the beauty is that I don't have to...


Thank you for your service! My father spent 20 years in the Air Force.

I don't agree with it either. I stand for the anthem when I go to sporting events, but the outrage over it is just unbearable at this point. I think based on your statement you realize that they aren't protesting your service. Hell, most of them are probably grateful for your service. They are just speaking out against injustices that a white male such as myself will never have to deal with in a way they feel will get the right attention (Whether it will or not is TBD). Is it the most effective way to do it? I don't know. But as long as they aren't rioting in the streets, murdering people, or some other crimes against humanity, then it's harmless.

I think everyone needs to take a step back and take inventory of their own lives and stop taking everything personally all the time. It's no way to go through life.

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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:11 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
fortythree wrote:

It's not the NFL doing it.


So the NFL didn't try to enact a "No Kneeling" policy before this season that had no chance of ever flying under the radar....then rescind the same rule shortly thereafter when the NFLPA and media got up in arms all over again?

Cause I'm pretty sure they did.

And yeah, that fire would still be burning right now even they haven't, but they added their brand of gasoline to it, prolonging that flame. And that's what I'm talking about. If they don't touch it, it'll go away after a while, when the media runs out of headlines to write about it. But they can't keep supplying new headlines.


I agree, but let’s be perfectly honest. The NFL and the owners are getting tooled by the master of ceremonies here, the Buffoon in Chief sitting on an inflatable raft at Mir-A-Lago.

If you guys were sick of it last year, wait until this year. His greatest power is his ability to incite his base from his twitter account. It will not end. His followers cling to that twitter account like heroin addicts do the needle.


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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:09 pm 
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StillerInCT wrote:
AF Stiller Fan wrote:
StillerInCT wrote:
I don't think I can handle another year of this stupid debate clogging up the sports headlines. If they want to kneel, who gives a shit? I still have to go to work the next day and pay my bills. It has exactly 0 impact on anybody's life other than hurt feelings.


And I'm still deployed for at least the next 6 months defending their right to do it. I don't agree with it, but the beauty is that I don't have to...


Thank you for your service! My father spent 20 years in the Air Force.

I don't agree with it either. I stand for the anthem when I go to sporting events, but the outrage over it is just unbearable at this point. I think based on your statement you realize that they aren't protesting your service. Hell, most of them are probably grateful for your service. They are just speaking out against injustices that a white male such as myself will never have to deal with in a way they feel will get the right attention (Whether it will or not is TBD). Is it the most effective way to do it? I don't know. But as long as they aren't rioting in the streets, murdering people, or some other crimes against humanity, then it's harmless.

I think everyone needs to take a step back and take inventory of their own lives and stop taking everything personally all the time. It's no way to go through life.


Well said.
People are offended by everything these days. Makes for a bunch of keyboard Social Justice Warriors who do diddly squat to improve other peoples' lives when it actually comes down to doing shit and making changes.

People want to block traffic and protest, but don't have the wherewithal to ask for a meeting with the mayor or their councilperson or police chief to make grass roots changes with whatever issue they may have.

And while I don't agree with the kneeling for NFL players, I respect their right to kneel and it doesn't cause me to clutch my pearls. But if I had a magic wand, I'd ban those who kneel and haven't done any community outreach.

Rag on CK all you want, but he's put his money and time where his mouth was. Wish more NFL players did the same...I'd have a bit more respect for where they're coming from then.


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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:24 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:

Well said.
People are offended by everything these days. Makes for a bunch of keyboard Social Justice Warriors who do diddly squat to improve other peoples' lives when it actually comes down to doing shit and making changes.

People want to block traffic and protest, but don't have the wherewithal to ask for a meeting with the mayor or their councilperson or police chief to make grass roots changes with whatever issue they may have.

And while I don't agree with the kneeling for NFL players, I respect their right to kneel and it doesn't cause me to clutch my pearls. But if I had a magic wand, I'd ban those who kneel and haven't done any community outreach.

Rag on CK all you want, but he's put his money and time where his mouth was. Wish more NFL players did the same...I'd have a bit more respect for where they're coming from then.


Oh, man, "keyboard Social Justice Warriors" hits the nail right on the head.

I've been heavily involved with a camp for mentally disabled people for over 20 years. It's a great camp. 100% volunteer and donation based (ie, no one is pocketing money), very well respected in the community.....wonderful cause. So I decided to do an experiment for my birthday this year. Facebook has that new "Donate to a charity for my birthday" feature, so I thought "why the hell not" and kicked off a campaign for my birthday to benefit this camp.

And the experiment part of it was that before I started it, I made a mental note of all my facebook friends who love to constantly repost dubious articles about social injustice. You know the ones. Kids in Africa starving. Dogs abused. Homeless people starving, etc, etc. All real issues, to be sure, but you know the person posting those stories isn't doing a damn thing about them other than taking a half second to reshare those stories.

So I noted all these people on my friends list and kicked off the campaign.

Sure enough, not a single person on that list, many of which I'm close friends and/or family with, donated a single penny. I posted updates a few times per week for 3 weeks. Even made a general post inviting people to "do more than just reshare viral videos and make an actual impact on a great cause"...and still not a single one of them donated.

That said, I did raise $850. And you know who donated? The people who rarely say a word about that stuff. The quiet ones who roll their eyes when someone starts going on a tirade about some obscure cause.

ie, the people who value real empathy and altruism over the appearance of empathy and altruism.


Last edited by Louis Lipps Service on Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:32 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:


ie, the people who value real apathy and altruism over the appearance of apathy and altruism.


i think you mean empathy :D

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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:33 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:


ie, the people who value real apathy and altruism over the appearance of apathy and altruism.


i think you mean empathy :D


Hahahaha. Good catch.


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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:40 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:


ie, the people who value real apathy and altruism over the appearance of apathy and altruism.


i think you mean empathy :D


He's apathetic about empathy :lol:

LLS- nice work you do!


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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Stairway 2 Seven wrote:
Im not a Trump supporter at all but these unending protests are annoying. The players should have protested 1 game and spoke their peace and moved on. The nfl should just keep them in the locker room until after the anthem is over or maybe not play the anthem at all.


This is classic. Those damn annoying social injustice protests. What an irritation and inconvenience.

Why can’t they be done somewhere no one sees them?


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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:23 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:

Well said.
People are offended by everything these days. Makes for a bunch of keyboard Social Justice Warriors who do diddly squat to improve other peoples' lives when it actually comes down to doing shit and making changes.

People want to block traffic and protest, but don't have the wherewithal to ask for a meeting with the mayor or their councilperson or police chief to make grass roots changes with whatever issue they may have.

And while I don't agree with the kneeling for NFL players, I respect their right to kneel and it doesn't cause me to clutch my pearls. But if I had a magic wand, I'd ban those who kneel and haven't done any community outreach.

Rag on CK all you want, but he's put his money and time where his mouth was. Wish more NFL players did the same...I'd have a bit more respect for where they're coming from then.


Oh, man, "keyboard Social Justice Warriors" hits the nail right on the head.

I've been heavily involved with a camp for mentally disabled people for over 20 years. It's a great camp. 100% volunteer and donation based (ie, no one is pocketing money), very well respected in the community.....wonderful cause. So I decided to do an experiment for my birthday this year. Facebook has that new "Donate to a charity for my birthday" feature, so I thought "why the hell not" and kicked off a campaign for my birthday to benefit this camp.

And the experiment part of it was that before I started it, I made a mental note of all my facebook friends who love to constantly repost dubious articles about social injustice. You know the ones. Kids in Africa starving. Dogs abused. Homeless people starving, etc, etc. All real issues, to be sure, but you know the person posting those stories isn't doing a damn thing about them other than taking a half second to reshare those stories.

So I noted all these people on my friends list and kicked off the campaign.

Sure enough, not a single person on that list, many of which I'm close friends and/or family with, donated a single penny. I posted updates a few times per week for 3 weeks. Even made a general post inviting people to "do more than just reshare viral videos and make an actual impact on a great cause"...and still not a single one of them donated.

That said, I did raise $850. And you know who donated? The people who rarely say a word about that stuff. The quiet ones who roll their eyes when someone starts going on a tirade about some obscure cause.

ie, the people who value real empathy and altruism over the appearance of empathy and altruism.


Dude that's an awesome thing to do! I can just imagine the impact that you've made and the impact it's also made on your life.

I spend most of my time doing work for causes related to animals. I always feel like, in general, human beings have some control over their circumstances, but animals essentially have none.

But I agree with you. Most people will speak out if it's convenient, but will never do anything to further their cause. As Brasco said, people can bash Kaepernick all they want, but he's more than put his money where his mouth is which I have full respect for.

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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:01 pm 
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Miter Saw wrote:
Still raising awareness about that anti-black federal police force during national anthem.

Good for them.


Maybe next week they could take a break from raising awareness about the “anti-black” police and raise some awareness about anti-black violence committed by other blacks.

Something that puts far more people in the ground than the other. So much so you’d think it would be an issue near and dear.

I guess they just don’t have the time.


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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:07 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Miter Saw wrote:
Still raising awareness about that anti-black federal police force during national anthem.

Good for them.


Maybe next week they could take a break from raising awareness about the “anti-black” police and raise some awareness about anti-black violence committed by other blacks.

Something that puts far more people in the ground than the other. So much so you’d think it would be an issue near and dear.

I guess they just don’t have the time.


Perhaps it is the same reason they do not protest anti-white crime by white people.

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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:37 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
ie, the people who value real empathy and altruism over the appearance of empathy and altruism.


Facebook is a fantastic platform for virtue signaling, so all your friends can see what a good person you are. But then, as you point out, when it comes to actually doing something....

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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:52 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Miter Saw wrote:
Still raising awareness about that anti-black federal police force during national anthem.

Good for them.


Maybe next week they could take a break from raising awareness about the “anti-black” police and raise some awareness about anti-black violence committed by other blacks.

Something that puts far more people in the ground than the other. So much so you’d think it would be an issue near and dear.

I guess they just don’t have the time.


I'm Black and there has ALWAYS been crimes committed against each individuals own ethnicity. Blacks kill Blacks, White's kill White's, Hispanics kill Hispanics etc etc. This is NOT the issue. The issue is White Cops killing Blacks for no apparent reason other than the color of our skin. See you don't have to worry about this because you are White. As a Black man I worry about this. I worry for my children as well. White cops shooting Blacks in the Back while fleeing is ridiculous. It's unfortunate but I don't trust White Police Officers unlike you who see them as your friend.

They are not protesting against the Military either. That is a BS lie. I am a Disabled Vet and I know what the protesting is about and it's not against our Country or those who choose to defend it.


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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:24 pm 
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bigfame wrote:
955876 wrote:
Miter Saw wrote:
Still raising awareness about that anti-black federal police force during national anthem.

Good for them.


Maybe next week they could take a break from raising awareness about the “anti-black” police and raise some awareness about anti-black violence committed by other blacks.

Something that puts far more people in the ground than the other. So much so you’d think it would be an issue near and dear.

I guess they just don’t have the time.


I'm Black and there has ALWAYS been crimes committed against each individuals own ethnicity. Blacks kill Blacks, White's kill White's, Hispanics kill Hispanics etc etc. This is NOT the issue. The issue is White Cops killing Blacks for no apparent reason other than the color of our skin. See you don't have to worry about this because you are White. As a Black man I worry about this. I worry for my children as well. White cops shooting Blacks in the Back while fleeing is ridiculous. It's unfortunate but I don't trust White Police Officers unlike you who see them as your friend.

They are not protesting against the Military either. That is a BS lie. I am a Disabled Vet and I know what the protesting is about and it's not against our Country or those who choose to defend it.
Thanks for posting that. More people need to make their opinions known. The internet is one of the reasons this asshole got elected, and maybe the internet will get him booted.

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Last edited by COR-TEN on Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:26 pm 
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I don't believe it's the best way to raise awareness and get results, but it is freedom of speech. You have to take the good with the bad.

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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:56 pm 
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Quote:
White cops shooting Blacks in the Back while fleeing is ridiculous. It's unfortunate but I don't trust White Police Officers unlike you who see them as your friend.

They are not protesting against the Military either. That is a BS lie. I am a Disabled Vet and I know what the protesting is about and it's not against our Country or those who choose to defend it.


1) I agree shooting in the back is ridiculous. But then, if they weren’t “fleeing” then there are very likely no shots fired. Further, I don’t see cops as friend or foe. Not because of the color of my skin but because I’m not out engaging in criminal behavior. Look, I realize you can find examples of cops behaving poorly. Those cops should be punished to the full extent. What bugs me is that I can guarantee you many of these protestors are of the “hands up don’t shoot” ilk that are outraged over completely justified shootings. Have you happen to see many of countless videos posted online where a person of color had their “me too” moment and decried police aggression only to have dashcam footage show the office did nothing of the sort. There are actually FBI statistics that show blacks are actually shot with less frequency than whites & latinos. And what about the black cops who take the shots? They are now “race traders”.

2) They (and you) keep saying it’s not about the anthem or military and yet they use the medium that honors such as their chosen time to “raise awareness”. Reality is that it does next to nothing in terms of effecting change yet does accomplish insulting some of those who have served or lost loved ones serving. In short, it’s really a poor time for their social justice crusade. People watch and go to sporting events to escape all of that. Not have it brought to the surface. Does the anthem really have anything to do with the police? Dak Prescott just came out with very similiar thoughts on the matter in terms of the anthem before a really being a poor choice in terms of time & place. I also find this talk of “oppression” being pretty funny. These NFL anthem protestors know nothing of real & true oppression. Nor does it exist in this country on anywhere near the level it does in other parts of the world.


Last edited by 955876 on Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:09 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
955876 wrote:
Miter Saw wrote:
Still raising awareness about that anti-black federal police force during national anthem.

Good for them.


Maybe next week they could take a break from raising awareness about the “anti-black” police and raise some awareness about anti-black violence committed by other blacks.

Something that puts far more people in the ground than the other. So much so you’d think it would be an issue near and dear.

I guess they just don’t have the time.


Perhaps it is the same reason they do not protest anti-white crime by white people.


Which would be what?

Do you really not see the point? There are immediate & instant riots, looting, fires set, and violence conducted anytime a Black is shot by the police. Whether it’s justified or not.

And even when it is justified there is never an acknowledgment of such. Nor is there outrage or protest or riots or looting when countless people of color (and innocent bystanders) are gunned down as a result of black on black turf wars. Just another day. Nothin to see here.

Maybe next time one takes a knee in protest they can explain how destroying & looting the very businesses that serve their community helps to ”raise awareness”...


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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:18 pm 
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955876 wrote:
There are actually FBI statistics that show blacks are actually shot with less frequency than whites & latinos. And what about the black cops who take the shots? They are now “race traders”.


And if I recall, the Harvard study showed the black cops were more likely to shoot than their white counterparts. Both showed a tendency to hesitate or less likely to shoot blacks.

But those are inconvenient facts. And identity politics is about emotion, anyway.

There are obviously racial inequities in the justice system. Cop shootings is not where it is and not where the focus should be. And when you make martyrs out of Michael Brown, you aren't attracting sympathy and bringing people together. But as I've said before, that is by design - the stories that dominate the national news cycle are the ones that, predictably, drive a wedge between black and white.

Again, the data would indicate there are maybe 50-100 cases a year of actual wrongful deaths (half of those, by the way, non-black) from police. It's unfortunate and one is too many, but it's a far cry from racist white cops running around like some hit squad killing young black men.

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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:22 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Maybe next time one takes a knee in protest they can explain how destroying & looting the very businesses that serve their community helps to ”raise awareness”...


You're doing the same thing that offends you about the generalizations about police. A few people, who maybe aren't even there to protest, are just being opportunists and you're condemning everyone else there out of sincerity.

And studies show the "mob" mentality really has nothing to do with race (just watch some of the soccer games over the pond).

I think organizers know that hurts the movement, but I'm not sure what they could do about it. And if you're into conspiracy theories, some of those looters are being paid.

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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:27 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
955876 wrote:
There are actually FBI statistics that show blacks are actually shot with less frequency than whites & latinos. And what about the black cops who take the shots? They are now “race traders”.


And if I recall, the Harvard study showed the black cops were more likely to shoot than their white counterparts. Both showed a tendency to hesitate or less likely to shoot blacks.

But those are inconvenient facts. And identity politics is about emotion, anyway.

There are obviously racial inequities in the justice system. Cop shootings is not where it is and not where the focus should be. And when you make martyrs out of Michael Brown, you aren't attracting sympathy and bringing people together. But as I've said before, that is by design - the stories that dominate the national news cycle are the ones that, predictably, drive a wedge between black and white.

Again, the data would indicate there are maybe 50-100 cases a year of actual wrongful deaths (half of those, by the way, non-black) from police. It's unfortunate and one is too many, but it's a far cry from racist white cops running around like some hit squad killing young black men.


Bingo...


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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:33 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
955876 wrote:
Maybe next time one takes a knee in protest they can explain how destroying & looting the very businesses that serve their community helps to ”raise awareness”...


You're doing the same thing that offends you about the generalizations about police. A few people, who maybe aren't even there to protest, are just being opportunists and you're condemning everyone else there out of sincerity.

And studies show the "mob" mentality really has nothing to do with race (just watch some of the soccer games over the pond).

I think organizers know that hurts the movement, but I'm not sure what they could do about it. And if you're into conspiracy theories, some of those looters are being paid.



Fair enough. That was a generalization. However, looting and destruction of property do tend to go hand in hand with these protests.

And it does detract from the very thing they are protesting.


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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:05 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Fair enough. That was a generalization. However, looting and destruction of property do tend to go hand in hand with these protests.


If you're talking Antifa - which is an entirely different topic - then I agree.

However, when you have the emotion and anger in these protests, it only takes a few to set-off the powderkeg. And that true of any such gathering.

Whether or not the looters are outside the community or not, the very nature of the protest is tailor-made to attract opportunists.

Now in Chicago what they have done is shutdown a few major highways. I don't agree with that, but there's no nearby stores to loot. And, shocker, no looting or violence.

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 Post subject: Re: NFL Players Renew Anthem Protests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:15 pm 
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Quote:
If you're talking Antifa - which is an entirely different topic - then I agree.


:lol: :lol:

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