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 Post subject: Re: Todd Gurley Resets the RB Market
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:21 pm 
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Well I can point to some lean RB years between Bettis and Bell. Getting a serviceable back is not as easy as it sounds. The RB can really establish the identity of the offense.

Talking out of both sides of my mouth, coincidence that the lean years coincides with Kirby Wilson?

While this thread is generating buzz, all the Steeler FO has to do is sit back and relax. What to do next season should be spelled out by the end of this season.

If Haley was a bad as everybody thinks he was, then we may have a Beatles scenario at the end of the season where nobody wants to break-up the band.

The stats, record, and post season progress will tell the front office what to do. Sit back and enjoy Bell this year and I think there is a good chance we see him next season too.


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 Post subject: Re: Todd Gurley Resets the RB Market
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:04 am 
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it's still yggy wrote:
I agree that bell is replaceable. But the Steelers really really want that bell cow fullback. Bettis, mendenhall, bell...they used Parker like that.

They just NEED that RB in that role. The earth just cannot spin without it.

I agree that you can get a rb any draft. I also can’t wait to see what samuels can do and I’m not sold on conners in anything more than a backup.


I'm not holding my breath for Samuels. I won't be shocked if he ends up on the practice squad. Precisely because of what you say the brain trust wants out of a RB.

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 Post subject: Re: Todd Gurley Resets the RB Market
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:10 am 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
Well I can point to some lean RB years between Bettis and Bell. Getting a serviceable back is not as easy as it sounds. The RB can really establish the identity of the offense.

Talking out of both sides of my mouth, coincidence that the lean years coincides with Kirby Wilson?

While this thread is generating buzz, all the Steeler FO has to do is sit back and relax. What to do next season should be spelled out by the end of this season.

If Haley was a bad as everybody thinks he was, then we may have a Beatles scenario at the end of the season where nobody wants to break-up the band.

The stats, record, and post season progress will tell the front office what to do. Sit back and enjoy Bell this year and I think there is a good chance we see him next season too.


Hope you're right.

I think the heavy criticism on here that Bell's talent is overvalued is delusional. Scunge said his receiving numbers are Heath like. Yeah, he's also become Heath like for Ben as a security blanket.

But the team can't sink that much cash into him. They really can't.

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 Post subject: Re: Todd Gurley Resets the RB Market
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:24 am 
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This offense is going to keep rolling next season without Leveon Bell... sans a dumpster fire at RB.

I'm saying this again...

IF we get "above the line" play from the RB position next season without Bell, it will not surprise me if the offense has a higher Pts/Dr league ranking than in any season with Bell on the roster up to this point.

Mendenhall
Parker (twice)
Morris

They all saw a SB.

Leveon Bell sans his 2014 season when he did flash Faulk like talent to a degree.... he is overrated. Some of his numbers are empty numbers. Saw this especially during Haley's first few years here when we saw many drives of Bell Bell Bell only to predictably fizzle into a Todd Haley TD. Those Bell numbers on those drives hurt the team. The offense was not run the way it should have been run.

There are empty numbers in sports and we have seen this with Bell.

A player accumulating numbers is not equal to what's best for the team. It's a sports fallacy to argue a players value based on (some) numbers when some of those numbers were not accumulated in a context of what's best for the team.

There is not a more glaring example of my previous statement than the years the then brain dead Russell Westbrook had Kevin Durant on the team for OKC in the NBA. It was volume shooting for Westbrook during those years, kind of like too many touches for Bell.


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 Post subject: Re: Todd Gurley Resets the RB Market
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:03 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
Yeah, he's also become Heath like for Ben as a security blanket.

But the team can't sink that much cash into him. They really can't.


I would argue that Bell becoming Ben's security blanket is actually have a negative effect on this offense. I can get behind Ben throwing to Bell and attacking an offense with malicious intent.

What I can't get behind is Ben throwing to Bell with all of these damn check downs acting as if he is Joe Flacco. No guts no glory!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Todd Gurley Resets the RB Market
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:55 am 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
Well I can point to some lean RB years between Bettis and Bell. Getting a serviceable back is not as easy as it sounds. The RB can really establish the identity of the offense.

Willie Parker, 2008 Mewelde Moore, and Gary Russell say hi.

Those three were really, really good in 2008.

Hell, Mendenhall was pretty damn good in 2010. Good enough to win it all, frankly.

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 Post subject: Re: Todd Gurley Resets the RB Market
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:54 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
Well I can point to some lean RB years between Bettis and Bell. Getting a serviceable back is not as easy as it sounds. The RB can really establish the identity of the offense.


We got Lombardi's #5 and #6 during those "lean years".

Our offense was 6th in the league in Pts/Dr in 2005

We got off the "identity of the offense" Bus and ended our Lombardi drought.

The HOF Bus was paired up with some good to great defenses and it didn't mean shit in the post season.

The HOF Bradshaw and Ben... 6

The last time a RB got SB mvp in the entire league was 1998.

Steelers have 6 SB mvp's. Our first one went to RB but that was before the Mel Blount rule in '78 opening up the passing game plus Bradshaw was still learning how to spell cat :) The other 5 went to qb/wr.


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 Post subject: Re: Todd Gurley Resets the RB Market
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:56 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Yeah, he's also become Heath like for Ben as a security blanket.

But the team can't sink that much cash into him. They really can't.


I would argue that Bell becoming Ben's security blanket is actually have a negative effect on this offense. I can get behind Ben throwing to Bell and attacking an offense with malicious intent.

What I can't get behind is Ben throwing to Bell with all of these damn check downs acting as if he is Joe Flacco. No guts no glory!!!


Bell is not an average back.

Bell is not a good back.

Bell is a great, arguably elite back.

I do not believe for a second the Steelers are better by subtraction of Bell.
It’s like saying the defense is better because now you can’t lean on Shazier.

Ben throws check downs when there is nothing else he sees to throw to. It’s not like Ben doesn’t like taking shots. Flacco throws check downs because he has nothing to throw to. :lol:

But, you can’t pay Bell the coin he wants.

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 Post subject: Re: Todd Gurley Resets the RB Market
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:28 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Scunge wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Yeah, he's also become Heath like for Ben as a security blanket.

But the team can't sink that much cash into him. They really can't.


I would argue that Bell becoming Ben's security blanket is actually have a negative effect on this offense. I can get behind Ben throwing to Bell and attacking an offense with malicious intent.

What I can't get behind is Ben throwing to Bell with all of these damn check downs acting as if he is Joe Flacco. No guts no glory!!!


Bell is not an average back.

Bell is not a good back.

Bell is a great, arguably elite back.

I do not believe for a second the Steelers are better by subtraction of Bell.
It’s like saying the defense is better because now you can’t lean on Shazier.

Ben throws check downs when there is nothing else he sees to throw to. It’s not like Ben doesn’t like taking shots. Flacco throws check downs because he has nothing to throw to. :lol:

But, you can’t pay Bell the coin he wants.


And yet handing the football to Bell or throwing him the football is inferior to throwing the football vertically to the 2nd year JuJu when you have a HOF qb playing at a high level.

It's not that subtracting talent makes the team better... but sometimes coaches hands have to be forced. I'm hoping Fichtner > Haley and it will be a non issue.

Next season, it will be JuJu's 3rd, Washington's 2nd, and McDonald should still be on the team. I could see that group along with Ben/AB doing serious damage with an average Joe at RB.


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 Post subject: Re: Todd Gurley Resets the RB Market
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:33 pm 
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I am not sold on the idea that it was exactly Haley that stopped using Bell more down the field in the passing game. I think that the knee injuries have diminished Bell to the point where he simply is not that RB anymore to do what a Gurley or David Johnson does in the passing game. Those teams can use those RBs to attack a defense because they still have their wheels (speed). Bell does not, he is more of a plodding, slow TE in the passing game.

This team is not lacking playmakers now. The days of Bell being targeted 100 times in a season should be over now. With McDonald at TE, JuJu and Washington at WR, Samuels as an H-back, move TE, 3rd down back, Bell should be targeted maybe 70 times this season and catch 55 passes. That would be the best, optimal amount for a team looking to diversify their offense, spread the ball around to ALL of their playmakers and not just force the ball so that one player can pad his career stats.

I am so tired of this fantasy football mentality among some of our star players, it isn't about you touching the ball 500 times (Bell), it isn't about you having 2,000 yards receiving and setting NFL records (Brown), it is about scoring points and winning games and winning championships.

This offense got delirious with Bell and Brown, fell to the easy temptation of just feeding them the ball, thinking that was all it took, but it was too easy and the results haven't given us another Super Bowl ring.

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