It is currently Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:25 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 200 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Bell Signing Rumor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:18 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:18 pm
Posts: 4695
Location: Sunny Delaware (but the murdery part)
Scunge, I wouldn't trade AB for any of the WR mentioned. Again, number of targets certainly counts for something, but there's more than one way to interpret that number. Could it be that AB is just really good at getting open? Could it be that his QB has the confidence that if he gets the ball to him, he's going to, more often than not, make a good to spectacular play on it?

And again, rewatch the Jacksonville game and tell me Adam Thielen makes any of those plays. AB gets targeted because he's great, he's not great because he gets targeted.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bell Signing Rumor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:10 pm
Posts: 848
Quote:
AB gets targeted because he's great, he's not great because he gets targeted.

The Ice is right


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bell Signing Rumor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:14 pm
Posts: 1920
I think it is a little of both.

For me, if I was the GM I would not overpay for WRs or RBs, because I see those positions as easily found in the draft. To me I would only pay for positions that are hard to find, hard to acquire, for those rare players. If you find one of those, you overpay, you give the big contract to in a heartbeat.

A shutdown CB who can cover is rare.

A pass rusher at OLB, that double digit sack artist is rare.

Tackles that can pass protect against those pass rushers are hard to come by.

Yes, you need a franchise QB, you spend the big money on them of course.

But WR and RBs? I think you can replace them easily. As I said, I honestly believe that if Brown were out for the year that JuJu could be the #1 and be targeted 150-175 times and end up with over 100 catches, 1,400+ yards and 10+ TDs. Just as I think Bell can be replaced next season with a 1st or 2nd round rookie RB. If a 33/34 year old DeAngelo Williams can play just as well as Bell when he had to fill in then there is more to Bell's production than just 'his generational talent'. Amazing all the hyperbole I have heard this offseason about how Bell 'makes' this offense, how the offensive line is not really 'that' good, how Bell can thrive in any offense with any team. Right!!!

Brown and Bell do not have exclusive rights on work ethic, or talent and they both have been very fortunate to have been drafted by the Pittsburgh Steelers. I know there is a lot hand wringing by some wondering how this team will do if one or both are gone, me, I don't worry about it. For all the talk about how this may be the last year of the Killer B's, and how the time is now to win a Super Bowl, funny how they still haven't done shit together, haven't accomplished anything.

10 years from now, when the Steelers invite some former players back to help celebrate something for a Monday Night game, how will that night be for Bell and Brown? Say that Bell, Brown, Parker, Ward are all invited. Do Bell and Brown shake hands with Parker and Ward and notice the Super Bowl rings on their fingers and think wow, what could have been? Sometimes being the all-time best at your position doesn't mean a thing, doesn't guarantee a Super Bowl ring.

_________________
#greendot51


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bell Signing Rumor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:36 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:18 pm
Posts: 4695
Location: Sunny Delaware (but the murdery part)
I think you have a point on Bell, albeit a pretty obvious one that I don't think I've seen anyone on this site disagree with, but I gotta disagree on AB. He's a special player, and not showing any signs of slowing down. You really just have to roll the tape. It's right there.

As far as lack of Super Bowl ring, are we blaming Brown for that Jags loss? Seems you'd have to get pretty far down the goat list before you got to him.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bell Signing Rumor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:14 pm
Posts: 1920
I am not placing blame on Brown for the lack of Super Bowl rings but it is amazing to me how he disappears at times.

For example, where was he in the Super Bowl against Green Bay? 1 catch for 1 yard. Don't give me that, well, he was a rookie bullshit.

We don't get to the Championship game against the JETs if Brown did not have his 3 catch 75 yard game against the Baltimore Ravens. Remember that famous helmet catch by Brown for 58 yards on 3rd and 19?

Where was that Antonio Brown in the Super Bowl? He came through against the Ravens, the playoffs were not overwhelming for him, so where did he go?

To me we have a bit of a conundrum/puzzle on offense. The offense feeds Bell and Brown, they put up monster production (although oddly enough not in the most important TDs category), which they in turn parlay into big contracts. So, then you are still left with an offense that is underachieving, not scoring enough points, not getting out to leads, not helping their defense. B and B still want to get their touches, targets and yet we are not any closer to winning a Super Bowl, and the big money you are paying your big guns on offense might be curtailing your ability to bring in high quality free agents for defense.

_________________
#greendot51


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bell Signing Rumor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:31 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:18 pm
Posts: 4695
Location: Sunny Delaware (but the murdery part)
Well, he was a rookie, and your point is well taken that we're possibly not even in the game without his Ravens performance. The chemistry we see today had yet to fully develop, though.

If I'm not mistaken, the Jest had a pretty quality secondary that season (some ex Pitt kid named Revis?). Might have been a factor. The other teams play for money, too.


Last edited by Ice on Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bell Signing Rumor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:33 pm
Posts: 16325
The Antonio Brown of 2010-2013 is light years from the AB of 2014-2017. He had success vs the Ravens because that was an audacious playcall (4 verts) on 3rd and 19 and a sick throw. In the SB, they sorely missed the route-running of Sanders and GB took away the deep ball. That left guys underneath who really couldn't separate and a whole lot of rookie/2nd year/backups confusion in no-huddle drill. Add in Ben trying to force a big play and a OG/FB whiff on a run play, and the rest is history.

_________________
Suwanee88 wrote:
But it’s your fault that you are kind of a stubborn jagoff that would argue with a fence post


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bell Signing Rumor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:13 pm
Posts: 3985
Scunge wrote:
I think it is a little of both.

For me, if I was the GM I would not overpay for WRs or RBs, because I see those positions as easily found in the draft. To me I would only pay for positions that are hard to find, hard to acquire, for those rare players. If you find one of those, you overpay, you give the big contract to in a heartbeat.

A shutdown CB who can cover is rare.

A pass rusher at OLB, that double digit sack artist is rare.

Tackles that can pass protect against those pass rushers are hard to come by.

Yes, you need a franchise QB, you spend the big money on them of course.

But WR and RBs? I think you can replace them easily. As I said, I honestly believe that if Brown were out for the year that JuJu could be the #1 and be targeted 150-175 times and end up with over 100 catches, 1,400+ yards and 10+ TDs. Just as I think Bell can be replaced next season with a 1st or 2nd round rookie RB. If a 33/34 year old DeAngelo Williams can play just as well as Bell when he had to fill in then there is more to Bell's production than just 'his generational talent'. Amazing all the hyperbole I have heard this offseason about how Bell 'makes' this offense, how the offensive line is not really 'that' good, how Bell can thrive in any offense with any team. Right!!!

Brown and Bell do not have exclusive rights on work ethic, or talent and they both have been very fortunate to have been drafted by the Pittsburgh Steelers. I know there is a lot hand wringing by some wondering how this team will do if one or both are gone, me, I don't worry about it. For all the talk about how this may be the last year of the Killer B's, and how the time is now to win a Super Bowl, funny how they still haven't done shit together, haven't accomplished anything.

10 years from now, when the Steelers invite some former players back to help celebrate something for a Monday Night game, how will that night be for Bell and Brown? Say that Bell, Brown, Parker, Ward are all invited. Do Bell and Brown shake hands with Parker and Ward and notice the Super Bowl rings on their fingers and think wow, what could have been? Sometimes being the all-time best at your position doesn't mean a thing, doesn't guarantee a Super Bowl ring.


Ozzie Newsome and Bill Belichick are HOF GMs. Neither one of them would agree that finding a WR in the draft is "easy." Finding quality players at any position in the NFL Draft isn't easy. Yeah, we drafted Le'Veon Bell in 2013 (who no one on here before the draft would have taken in the second round), but Chris Rainey, Dri Archer, Baron Batch, Jonathan Dwyer, and Frank Summers all say "Hi." I'd argue even Mendenhall's career was disappointing overall, even though he wasn't a bust.

You put the offense they have now with the defenses they had when they had Parker and Ward and we'd easily be the best team in the league, would be favored in every game we played. It's a team game and there's not just one way or one formula to win. Just because these guys haven't gone all the way doesn't mean that elite talent at the skill positions is meaningless, or that it's somehow holding us back from winning it all if we'd use that money elsewhere. We had a piece of shit o-line in 2008, should we trade DeCastro, Pouncey, and Gilbert for defensive players and go back to Ben running for his life? Hell no.

_________________
SteelThrillsseeker wrote:
Dad showed up after work and according to her the entire hospital hears my dad yell you are not naming our son Hoss.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bell Signing Rumor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 3142
Whatever system the Steelers use to find the WR (Scouts + coaches) seems to work well. The biggest issue in getting the college WR is that their route trees are so limited and the spread offense looks for matchups. WR in college are rarely challenged to run routes to get open. They get by on their physical abilities alone. If they do not have the attitude to learn and get a lot better they become flashes in the pan.

I keep thinking at some point NFL GMs will have scouts look for route running much higher in the desired abilities but they remain fairly foolish. Everyone keeps looking for the new Moss when they should be spending more time looking for the next Adam Thielen ( just to name one).

_________________
To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.
- Henri Poincaré


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bell Signing Rumor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:02 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:18 pm
Posts: 4695
Location: Sunny Delaware (but the murdery part)
Agree, Brick, and I would also add teammates to the scouts and coaches. AB and the YMC (Sanders has turned out a more than decent pro, and Mike Wallace even still has an NFL job) had Ward to look at in terms of effort and professionalism, just like a kid like Juju has Brown to look at, along with James Washington this year. Definitely a contributing factor in my evaluation.

Also, I think the Steelers do a great job of not putting too much on a rookie WR's plate too early. Brown, Sanders, Wallace, Bryant, and to an extent Juju last season, though he progressed faster than some of the others, were only put in position to succeed, given what they came in knowing how to do, with more added to their plates as games went on.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 200 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Ice, OhioSteeler, RooneyTunes, steelsmitty and 29 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
FORUM RULES --- PRIVACY POLICY




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group