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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:25 pm 
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The Steelers late 70's offense was the toast of the NFL.

'78 Our qb was league mvp. Led the league in TD throws.

'79 We had the highest scoring offense in the league. Highest. Scoring. Offense.

Here are the scoring numbers our offense put up in those 2 Lombardi runs...

33, 34, 35, 34, 27, 31 Look at the consistency of those numbers. That's 6 post season games and only 1 under 30 with an average over 30 ppg.

For those 6 games, Swann and Stallworth each caught at least 1 TD every game except 1 game Swann had 0.

Here is the TD consistency from Swann and Stallworth for those 6 games...

Swann... 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1
Stallworth.... 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1

So, this is so much more than several highlight catches in some big moments. These 2 HOF wrs were key players on the most dynamic offense in the league late 70's both rs and ps.


Last edited by Havoc on Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:33 pm 
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StillerInCT wrote:
Brown is just as good, if not better than Swann, Stall, Holmes, and Ward.


I do not have a problem with this statement, just to be clear.

I got involved in this when someone stated AB's talent blows away the talent of Swann and Stallworth. That, I have a problem with.

Having said all that, AB has a lot more ps work to do, in my view.

Something is missing from this offense in the Ben/AB/Bell era (Haley or no Haley). We do not score enough TD's. Maybe it's largely due to we have never consistently had that 4th impact guy. Hoping it all changes this year with JuJu's 2nd season (and McDonald).


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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:44 pm 
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Havoc wrote:
StillerInCT wrote:
Brown is just as good, if not better than Swann, Stall, Holmes, and Ward.


I do not have a problem with this statement, just to be clear.

I got involved in this when someone stated AB's talent blows away the talent of Swann and Stallworth. That, I have a problem with.

Having said all that, AB has a lot more ps work to do, in my view.

Something is missing from this offense in the Ben/AB/Bell era (Haley or no Haley). We do not score enough TD's. Maybe it's largely due to we have never consistently had that 4th impact guy. Hoping it all changes this year with JuJu's 2nd season (and McDonald).

Steelers were 5th in offensive TDs last year, despite being 16th in number of drives.

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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:30 am 
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VeritasSteel wrote:
I guess the question you have to ask yourself is this? Who would you least like to face in their prime if they got traded to another team within the division? The answer is without a doubt- Brown. Say what you want about some weird playoff standard that got Holmes in this conversation (TOTALLY
RIDICULOUS). Or dramatic catches by Stallworth and Swann, but Brown will be the second best WR to play the game when it is over- if only because TD numbers will keep him from being number one.

I love Swann and Stalworth, I have a high regard for Ward, Thigpen, and Lipps. But if Brown gets traded to the Browns, Ravens, or Bengals no one would ever think in a million years that any of those teams gave us a proper return on investment or that it would be a good thing from a competition standpoint. Every one of those WRs could be canceled out with a proper defensive scheme- outside of some rough manhandling by Sherman (most of which should have been called) no one has figured out how to completely stop Antonio Brown.

He did everything in his power in that Jags game 7 for 132 and 2 TDs in a playoff game against the best defense in the league. Happy Birthday to the dude.


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I guess the question you have to ask yourself is this? Who would you least like to face in their prime if they got traded to another team within the division?


Depends on who's throwing him the football.

It might be AB, but...

If 2015 Mike Vick were throwing him the football... I would not lose any sleep over facing AB. At all.

Who in our secondary for the past several years was going to cover the 6'2" Stallworth? A 6'2" RZ target?

In 1984 Stallworth had Mark Malone and David Woodley throwing him the football. We were 8th in offense ppg. That was Lipps rookie season.

Stallworth's numbers that year...

89 REC 1395 YDS 17.4 Y/R 11 TD

Quote:
Brown will be the second best WR to play the game when it is over- if only because TD numbers will keep him from being number one.


That's like saying Emmitt Smith is the greatest RB of all time. There were RB's more talented than Emmitt.

Jerry Rice would not be the guy many think him to be if he did not have Montana/Young throwing him the football nearly his entire career.

I do not believe AB is the 2nd most talented wr to ever play the game. Love AB, love all our great wrs... but I've seen a few who IMO are or were more talented.

I would take Larry Fitzgerald over any of our guys. Might even take him over Rice. Think about what Fitzgerald could have done if he had Montana/Young/Ben throwing him the football his entire career. Outside of a brief stint with Warner, he has never had a HOF level qb feeding him.

AB is Stephan Curry minus the rings. Curry is playing at the right time in nba league history. Put him in the 80's or 90's and he's not going the be the same guy. The physicality of the league those years would not allow the dancing around freely at the 3 point line and when driving to the basket he would have gotten hammered in the no blood no foul league. Similarly, the middle of the field is wide open in nfl league history at the right time for AB's skillet.

The 6'3" Jordy Nelson physical specimen and talented RZ target had 3 seasons of 15 TDs, 14 TDs, 13 TDs


Last edited by Havoc on Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:17 am 
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Great post Havoc.

Larry Fitzgerald with a HOF QB his entire career would of shattered many many records. The QB tossing the rock makes all the difference. Spot on with your Emmit comment. Fuck that guy. For me, Barry Sanders was way more talented. Larry chose the money so that’s on him for staying in the desert. He’ll be another great one without a ring.


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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:35 am 
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Havoc wrote:
StillerInCT wrote:
Brown is just as good, if not better than Swann, Stall, Holmes, and Ward.


I do not have a problem with this statement, just to be clear.

I got involved in this when someone stated AB's talent blows away the talent of Swann and Stallworth. That, I have a problem with.

Having said all that, AB has a lot more ps work to do, in my view.

Something is missing from this offense in the Ben/AB/Bell era (Haley or no Haley). We do not score enough TD's. Maybe it's largely due to we have never consistently had that 4th impact guy. Hoping it all changes this year with JuJu's 2nd season (and McDonald).


I hear you, Havoc. I'd say AB hasn't been given enough chances in the PS, but when he has he's pretty much delivered.

I think the TD problem is sphincter pucker when we get into the RZ. But I agree, I think JuJu and McDonald can change that. Assuming McDonald can string together multiple healthy games.

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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:24 pm 
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IMHO, Brown's weakness is that he can't physically overcome double teams. He really needs that other threat to help. Julio Jones or Nuc Hopkins can overcome doubles by being able to out jump them.

I still think Brown is the best WR in the NFL but that is his weakness.

I want the Steelers to run more rub routes. That is what helped Rice put up impossible numbers.

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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:40 pm 
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SteelThrillsseeker wrote:
Great post Havoc.

Larry Fitzgerald with a HOF QB his entire career would of shattered many many records. The QB tossing the rock makes all the difference. Spot on with your Emmit comment. Fuck that guy. For me, Barry Sanders was way more talented. Larry chose the money so that’s on him for staying in the desert. He’ll be another great one without a ring.


Thanks brother.

I watched a lot of the Cardinals 2008 ps. Saw what they were doing. I was nervous heading into SB43. Believed they had a legit tangible chance to beat us.

The 2008 Cards had some rs issues. That was the year Boldin got his face broke. It all came together for them at the right time though.

Put the right players around Warner and when he was on, it was like watching a video game. He was on that ps.

Fitz numbers that ps...

6 REC 101 YDS 1 TD LNG 42
8 REC 166 YDS 1 TD LNG 41
9 REC 152 YDS 3 TD LNG 62
7 REC 127 YDS 2 TD LNG 64


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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:34 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:

I'll ask it again. Has AB not performed in the playoffs? Has he not made huge plays when needed? Has he not been a dominate player in just about every playoff game he's played?

So how is he not in that group? What, because he hasn't played in a Super Bowl, we're going to pretend everything else he's done doesn't matter?

Get the hell out of here with that load of crap.

You may not be a yinzer, but you're certainly subscribing to yinzer logic.


And you're subscribing to nonsense as usual.

I can tell you love putting words in people's mouths don't you. Who fucking said what he's done doesn't matter? My original post began with "I love AB." I'm not trying to denigrate Brown, but yes. I need to see him get to a Super Bowl like Rice, like Stallworth, like Swann and dominate before I consider him greatest of all time. I'm all broken up you don't like my criteria.

And just what the fuck is "yinzer logic?" Something you made up? Maybe you should pay Nick79 and his imaginary friend, the Typical Yinzer, a visit.

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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:38 am 
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Agree with Obviously, Havoc, Scunge, Stosh on the WR comp.

And back Obviously completely with his reply to this bullshit about "yinzer logic."


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