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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:59 pm 
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Havoc wrote:
Never forget who has thrown the football to AB his entire career.

And Rice had Montana/Young.


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Still Lit wrote:
In terms of TDs, AB is never going to sniff Rice's numbers. Way too behind the curve, there.

I blame Ben! :lol:


We certainly can't blame Tomlin because we know he puts game outcomes at risk so AB can keep personal records going.


Is it interesting that Montana only had 273 career TDs, Young 232. Ben is sitting at 329. And yet by 30, Rice was already way ahead of where AB is at in terms of TDs. I don't know if Montana and Young eye-fucked Rice every time they entered the red zone or what or whether Ben spreads it around a lot more, but Rice was a friggin' TD machine.

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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Talent and skill. AB blows the 70s Steelers WRs out of the water. Can you honestly say you'd "take Swann and Stallworth" over AB if you were playing pickup football and were trying to field the best team?

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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:12 pm 
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R S wrote:
Talent and skill. AB blows the 70s Steelers WRs out of the water. Can you honestly say you'd "take Swann and Stallworth" over AB if you were playing pickup football and were trying to field the best team?


Swann was a spectacular athlete. I remember the old 70's superstars competition obstacle course... Swann beat everyone. Same level of hand eye coordination and body control as AB.

There is a reason guys are lightening quick... they are small.

Stallworth 6'2"

Jerry Rice 6'2"

Height might have a lot to do with AB so far behind Rice in TD's.

Today's game is perfect for AB's skillset (at least between the 20's). The middle of the field is wide open. Not so in the 70's. Different game in the 70's and results for AB would have been different.


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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:23 pm 
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Yeah, I agree with Havoc, it is difficult to compare WRs from different eras. Who is to say that Swann would not be a beast in today's modern game? And who is to say Brown would be a beast in say 1975 when an NFL CB could beat the shit out of you, put his hands on you more, bump you all the way down the field?

Remember that Seattle game a couple years back? Wheaton had that monster game, 200 yards etc, but the WR that was not doing so well was Brown and wasn't he matched up for the most part with Richard Sherman? AB had 6 catches for 51 yards that day. Faced with playing against physical, talented CBs in the 70s may not bode well for Brown. I know Swann did it without a doubt and I have to think he would be incredible in this pussified NFL where the offense and the WRs are given so much lattitude and protection.

I do tend to agree with some who think that AB hasn't done enough in the post season. We have had many, many games in AB's playoff tenure where the offense is not scoring enough points. Also, you look at some of the other WRs that were also punt returners, where is AB's production compared to them? Randle El had a punt return for a TD in the playoffs, Holmes had a punt return for a TD in the playoffs, what has Brown done as a punt returner? Jack Squat!! His longest punt return in the playoffs is just 12 yards and his return average is 4.8. :roll:

No, he is not Marvin Harrison bad in the playoffs, but he also hasn't risen to the same level where it seems like he is putting the team on his back and propelling them to the Super Bowl either. I am a tad disappointed.

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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:30 pm 
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AB is only 36 TD's away from a similar career at this point. Might as well be a hundred.... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:54 pm 
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R S wrote:
Talent and skill. AB blows the 70s Steelers WRs out of the water. Can you honestly say you'd "take Swann and Stallworth" over AB if you were playing pickup football and were trying to field the best team?


Apparently, you are either too young or have a faulty memory as to how great Swann and Stallworth were. They were monsters in the playoffs and Super Bowl. Monsters. AB's numbers are better in a league that totally favors the offense now. Havoc and Scunge have articulated that better than I can.

AB has come up big in the playoffs and has made spectacular catches, but not enough to get the Steelers that elusive SB ring since he's been here. Not all his fault for sure, but he sure disappeared against New England in the '16 AFCCG. Who knows, maybe they keyed on him because of that idiotic Facebook Live video.

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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
Yeah, I agree with Havoc, it is difficult to compare WRs from different eras. Who is to say that Swann would not be a beast in today's modern game? And who is to say Brown would be a beast in say 1975 when an NFL CB could beat the shit out of you, put his hands on you more, bump you all the way down the field?

Remember that Seattle game a couple years back? Wheaton had that monster game, 200 yards etc, but the WR that was not doing so well was Brown and wasn't he matched up for the most part with Richard Sherman? AB had 6 catches for 51 yards that day. Faced with playing against physical, talented CBs in the 70s may not bode well for Brown. I know Swann did it without a doubt and I have to think he would be incredible in this pussified NFL where the offense and the WRs are given so much lattitude and protection.

I do tend to agree with some who think that AB hasn't done enough in the post season. We have had many, many games in AB's playoff tenure where the offense is not scoring enough points. Also, you look at some of the other WRs that were also punt returners, where is AB's production compared to them? Randle El had a punt return for a TD in the playoffs, Holmes had a punt return for a TD in the playoffs, what has Brown done as a punt returner? Jack Squat!! His longest punt return in the playoffs is just 12 yards and his return average is 4.8. :roll:

No, he is not Marvin Harrison bad in the playoffs, but he also hasn't risen to the same level where it seems like he is putting the team on his back and propelling them to the Super Bowl either. I am a tad disappointed.

Scoring differential in this case, I think has a lot to do with the skill of the play designer, play caller, and in-game adjustments between series. Think about who Jerry Rice was working with and think about the majority of AB's career being in an offense where most red zone opportunities were RPOs or audibles where it was not unusual to see AB be the only route. They weren't exactly scheming him open for the past few years, and I think his relative lack of RZ scores is party about that.

I looked at every incompletion Ben threw in first half of last year, where the play started at the opponent's 25 or better. There were 25 incompletions in that span.

CLE
1. WR screen covered
2. Bell and Bryant ran same route/ran into each other... no one open
3. WR screen drop by JuJu
4. PA pass. 7 kept in to block. no one open, Ben misses tough throw while on dead run to the right sideline
5. Ben's throw a little high, Rogers probably should have caught it but was late getting his arms up
CHI
6. PA to JJ. Ben locked on 1st read, AB's man fell down just as Ben released to a double-covered JJ
7. JuJu open for an instant but wise throwaway at last second when backside safety jumps route
8. Bryant stops on route into EZ
9. No one open throwaway on 1st down
10. Bell drop
11. good coverage+slightly late throw+Bryant poor route = incompletion
BAL
12. AB drop
13. throwaway on 1st down... no one open
JAX
14. batted down by edge rusher behind Ben's arm
15. throwaway under pressure to avoid sack on 3rd down in FG range
16. (:11 sec in half) uncalled DPI vs AB
17. WR screen... Ben had no laces on the throw (caught snap & threw in one motion), lost grip incomplete
18. forced to AB on 3rd down... no one open. Put it at rear corner of EZ--my guy or no guy throw
KC
19. one man route off audible (AB). Not open, throwaway on 1st down
20. blatant DPI uncalled vs Bell
CIN
21. AB covered in L EZ, Ben rolls R to extend play, throws to quintuple-covered AB... no one open
22. (:16 in half) drop by Vance McDonald on a challenging but catchable ball
DET
23. blown up RB screen on 1st down. no chance.
24. clean drop by Rogers
25. Hunter ran OOB on route while Ben was looking off safety to other side

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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:27 pm 
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draw your own conclusions, but damn we ran a lot of screens in the red zone. Those listed are just the ones that DIDN'T work.

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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:04 am 
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Different eras, yes. Rice TD% is insane those years. AB would have more with a better OC - remember, SF was changing the game back then.

Rice's TD record won't be broken for a long, long time...if ever.

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 Post subject: Re: AB vs. Jerry Rice at 30
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:49 am 
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Havoc wrote:
What Swann and Stallworth accomplished post season > than what Ab has accomplished post season. You can add Holmes to that list and arguably Ward too.

I'm not saying it's AB's fault. A lot of what happens in sports is about opportunity.

Winning post season is also about whether the rest of the team comes up big.


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