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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:00 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
See, I don't agree with Cowherd.

I think most coaches are pretty average, some are better Mon-Sat and some are better on Sun, but they're mostly competent at the job. They tend to be risk averse and stick to convention and popular wisdom (i.e. mediocre). Tomlin is one of those guys.

Sure, the bad coaches outnumber the truly good coaches, but 80% of them are probably just average...and I don't think PIT would hire a bad coach. I really see nothing but upside to replacing Tomlin.


Fair enough. But I look at Green Bay and the Saints and I start thinking that maybe Mike is not as much a dumpster fire as some folks suppose. This is Cowherd's point.

And I would add that I don't care about the Tomlin having Ben argument. Because no coach is winning without a franchise. The only coach consistently making deep pushes in the past decade and a half with a franchise is Belichick. Who else is/has?

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:26 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Fair enough. But I look at Green Bay and the Saints and I start thinking that maybe Mike is not as much a dumpster fire as some folks suppose. This is Cowherd's point.


I still think Colbert is one of the best GM's in football. That's a big part of the equation.

Most of Tomlin's success came with players and coaches he inherited. His track record the last 5-6 years really isn't any better than GB or NO.

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:40 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Fair enough. But I look at Green Bay and the Saints and I start thinking that maybe Mike is not as much a dumpster fire as some folks suppose. This is Cowherd's point.


I still think Colbert is one of the best GM's in football. That's a big part of the equation.

Most of Tomlin's success came with players and coaches he inherited. His track record the last 5-6 years really isn't any better than GB or NO.

Last 5 years
Ben 49-24 (.671)
Rodgers 42-22 (.656)
Brees 43-36 (.544)

Last 6 years
Rodgers 53-27 (.663)
Ben 56-30 (.651)
Brees 50-45 (.526)

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:16 pm 
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Well if the job is to a generate a repeatable pattern that gets you to 9-7 10-6 and into the playoffs most of the time only PT be victimised by having that repeatable pattern attacked ... well than harrumphs all around


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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:51 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
Steeledge wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Just be thankful you're not a Saints fan or a Packers fan. You'd be even more pissed off.

Meh, I don't recall Sean Payton or Mike McCarthy stepping on the field to thwart a hated rival's kickoff return at a crucial moment, forcing their entire franchise to have to live down that humiliation (just one example off the top of my head), but whatevs...


They have Rodgers and Brees and worse records. But whatevs.


And also appreciably worse rosters


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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:

And also appreciably worse rosters


On offense, sure, I'll buy that. Defense? I don't know about that (literally, I don't).

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:32 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
They have Rodgers and Brees and worse records. But whatevs.


And also appreciably worse rosters

Not for all five years. Over the course of 5 years, I'd say GB had the best, Steelers in the middle, and NO just behind. GB certainly had fewer holes on D and had comparable O talent for most of that time.

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:09 pm 
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We shouldn't have a top 10 D (and I'll be surprised if we do next season to be honest) with the lack of talent and playmakers, but huge credit to Tomlin and Butler for making it work.

Overall, Green Bay has had more talent than the Steelers the last five years. I'd say we've got the edge over NO for that stretch though but that looks to be flipping.

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:12 pm 
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I guess we haven't invested enough top draft picks in the D to have the needed talent


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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:21 pm 
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Gonzo wrote:
I guess we haven't invested enough top draft picks in the D to have the needed talent


:lol: I see what you did there.


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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:18 pm 
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Gonzo wrote:
I guess we haven't invested enough top draft picks in the D to have the needed talent


When in doubt, make sure to turn Colbert into a potted plant so Tomlin can be blamed for drafting, too.

Brees, Rodgers, better Ds, worse records. Too bad those coaches can’t draft better offensive talent, eh?

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:29 pm 
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I am only commenting on the statement that we should not expect a good D due to poor talent


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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:56 am 
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Gonzo wrote:
I am only commenting on the statement that we should not expect a good D due to poor talent


Well, I think Colbert is pretty good, but it's not his decision alone.

I don't think the D talent is as bad as said....I think the coaching sucks, top-to-bottom.

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:30 pm 
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I do think the talent on D has been bad for some years now, and there's only so much coaching you can do in-season to cover for that. Yes, Tomlin, Colbert, and the organization as a whole take the blame for the lack of talent. But we've added some interesting new pieces last year and this year, so maybe things will improve.


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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:34 pm 
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We just lost our only playmaker on D, played a pretty easy schedule last year against a lot of garbage QBs... no way the D doesn't take a step or two (or three) backwards this year IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:27 pm 
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TB, I offer a different take.

Yeah, we lost Shazier but look at what Mike Hilton, TJ Watt and Cam Heyward all did last year. I don't think any of them are going to plateau or slide, I think their play will get better and better.

So, who will join them this year? Stephon Tuitt has more upside than Heyward just has to stay healthy and put it all together. Hargrave, what if the Steelers do more 4-3 type of looks and/or feature him more as an interior pass rusher? Sean Davis, I believe all along that he has been misused and that his best position was FS, now he will get the chance to do just that.

Artie Burns, Joe Haden and Cam Sutton, those are a pretty good trio of CBs. At safety bringing in Burnett drafting Edmunds in the first round.

This defense over the past couple seasons has been fortified, it is flush with high draft picks and accomplished former Pro Bowl free agents. They brought in new coaches in Dunbar and Bradley.

Gone are Mike Mitchell, Willie Gay, Art Moats, Robert Golden, JJ Wilcox, James Harrison, Sean Spence, etc.

I just don't see the status quo anymore, new coaches, new players, many of the problematic weaknesses and players that were exploited are gone. This defense could very well be a top 10 or top 5 unit if they finally put the nails in that Dick LeBeau 3-4 defense's coffin, finally move on to implementing the next Steeler defense.

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Yeah, new players, new coaches. There are reasons for thinking the D will be better this year.


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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:07 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
TB, I offer a different take.

Yeah, we lost Shazier but look at what Mike Hilton, TJ Watt and Cam Heyward all did last year. I don't think any of them are going to plateau or slide, I think their play will get better and better.

So, who will join them this year? Stephon Tuitt has more upside than Heyward just has to stay healthy and put it all together. Hargrave, what if the Steelers do more 4-3 type of looks and/or feature him more as an interior pass rusher? Sean Davis, I believe all along that he has been misused and that his best position was FS, now he will get the chance to do just that.

Artie Burns, Joe Haden and Cam Sutton, those are a pretty good trio of CBs. At safety bringing in Burnett drafting Edmunds in the first round.

This defense over the past couple seasons has been fortified, it is flush with high draft picks and accomplished former Pro Bowl free agents. They brought in new coaches in Dunbar and Bradley.

Gone are Mike Mitchell, Willie Gay, Art Moats, Robert Golden, JJ Wilcox, James Harrison, Sean Spence, etc.

I just don't see the status quo anymore, new coaches, new players, many of the problematic weaknesses and players that were exploited are gone. This defense could very well be a top 10 or top 5 unit if they finally put the nails in that Dick LeBeau 3-4 defense's coffin, finally move on to implementing the next Steeler defense.


Now .... the addition by subtraction does have me slightly hopeful. Getting rid of Mitchell, gay, golden, spence and Wilcox has to lead to some improve,net ... right ? Golden and Mitchell were awful


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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:01 am 
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I am hopeful that getting rid of Lake will start to pay dividends.

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