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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:37 am 
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from reading this thread...

A. are the Steelers good until they play someone at or above their level, or do they play down to their opponents and lose to bad teams?

B. Are they on the verge of 5 consecutive 10 win seasons for only the second time in team history AND YET their head coach sucks?

The Steelers have many problems to address, but the weird expectations of their fans are one of the most daunting.

The main problem the Steelers had last year is that they didn't quite win their last game and they didn't win a championship.

If they can figure out a way to be more responsible in the secondary, let the best DBs play... and get at least average play from whoever lines up at ILB... they could be as good or better than they were last year with Shazier (top 10). I think the changes they have been making are on the right track and they played pretty well until injuries started to pile up.

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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:43 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
from reading this thread...

A. are the Steelers good until they play someone at or above their level, or do they play down to their opponents and lose to bad teams?

B. Are they on the verge of 5 consecutive 10 win seasons for only the second time in team history AND YET their head coach sucks?

The Steelers have many problems to address, but the weird expectations of their fans are one of the most daunting.

The main problem the Steelers had last year is that they didn't quite win their last game and they didn't win a championship.

If they can figure out a way to be more responsible in the secondary, let the best DBs play... and get at least average play from whoever lines up at ILB... they could be as good or better than they were last year with Shazier (top 10). I think the changes they have been making are on the right track and they played pretty well until injuries started to pile up.


I think you already know that the usual suspects are going to go with ‘B’ with the usual declaration that Ben walks on water and Tomlin is a hindrance to success.

I do have much less faith in Tomlin than I used to.

The communication issues in the secondary are abhorrent at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:45 pm 
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All the above. Perhaps add into the scenario 'luck' regarding player health. If they're lucky all their playmakers stay healthy all season.


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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:58 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Steelafan77 wrote:
The Steelers are good until they face teams that can play at their level or higher.


It's really no one team. Routinely outcoached against teams with similar talent levels.

Or QBed by Mike Glennon...

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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:00 pm 
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B2B, I really like what I am hearing from the players in the secondary.

One of Wade Phillips greatest virtues, in whatever city he was coaching, was that he came in and simplified things for his secondary. I remember when he went down to Houston and got that Texans secondary to play fast, play aggressive and he did it by simplifying things in the secondary.

Why am I talking about Phillips? Because it seems like Tom Bradley has come in and got Butler/Tomlin to buy into the same exact thing Phillips does. I have read interviews with Brian Allen, Cam Sutton, Joe Haden and to a man they are talking about things slowing down, things being more clear, terminology being simplified, things being streamlined, players being put in position to play up to their speed, size, athletic ability, playmaking ability.

I never believed that Dick LeBeau's complicated bullshit put our players in the best position to succeed. I think all it did was neuter our players. Only the superhuman Polamalu's and Shaziers could overcome the shackles, the dead weight of his defense.

I actually have a real good feeling about our defense this year, I think the additions of Dunbar and Bradley is going to transform this defense for the better. I think more man to man press coverage is going to happen, if last season we were 88% zone, 12 % man, I think this season it could be 60 zone/40 man. And I think with Dunbar we could finally see more 4-3 looks and this has already been reported/talked about in OTAs. Obviously when training camp starts and the preseason games come we will see if this does come to fruition, but I am excited.

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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:12 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
Steelafan77 wrote:
The Steelers are good until they face teams that can play at their level or higher.


It's really no one team. Routinely outcoached against teams with similar talent levels.

Or QBed by Mike Glennon...

Or Blake Bortles.... :P

Rooting for the defense to be a lot improved Scunge.


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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:54 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
The Steelers have many problems to address, but the weird expectations of their fans are one of the most daunting.
Seriously. There is much quality analysis on this site yet one has to sift through so much garbage to get it. It sometimes feels like a room full of 12 year olds talking to adults and being taken seriously as though it were normal.

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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:39 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
The Steelers have many problems to address, but the weird expectations of their fans are one of the most daunting.
Seriously. There is much quality analysis on this site yet one has to sift through so much garbage to get it. It sometimes feels like a room full of 12 year olds talking to adults and being taken seriously as though it were normal.


What’s juvenile about wishing ball cancer on an Internet opponent?

8-)

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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:44 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
The Steelers have many problems to address, but the weird expectations of their fans are one of the most daunting.
Seriously. There is much quality analysis on this site yet one has to sift through so much garbage to get it. It sometimes feels like a room full of 12 year olds talking to adults and being taken seriously as though it were normal.


Let me get this straight. B2B suggests that fans's expectations are among the Steelers most daunting problems?? They going to hire a coach for this, too?

Gee...excuse us for wanting our team not to be outreached in every big game....to stand picking its ass while replays are being reviewed, to pitch wide on 4th & an inch to go with no QB sneak in the playbook....to not have practiced redzone plays with it's freakishly tall receiver, to go with an onside kick when you're sitting with 3 timeouts and two minutes left.


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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:13 pm 
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Well SI may not know Steelers all too well. As they could go 13-3 as they have almost all winning seasons under coach Tomlin.

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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:51 am 
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Could care less if they go 8-8 or 14-2.

Real test is when this team gets into the playoffs. Tomlin's track record hasn't been so hot in that regard over the past few seasons.

2010 was a long time ago...


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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:27 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
Steelafan77 wrote:
The Steelers are good until they face teams that can play at their level or higher.


It's really no one team. Routinely outcoached against teams with similar talent levels.


I would have to a disagree with you on half that comment.
They are routinely outcoached against teams with inferior talent levels

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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:44 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
The Steelers have many problems to address, but the weird expectations of their fans are one of the most daunting.
Seriously. There is much quality analysis on this site yet one has to sift through so much garbage to get it. It sometimes feels like a room full of 12 year olds talking to adults and being taken seriously as though it were normal.


Let me get this straight. B2B suggests that fans's expectations are among the Steelers most daunting problems?? They going to hire a coach for this, too?

Gee...excuse us for wanting our team not to be outreached in every big game....to stand picking its ass while replays are being reviewed, to pitch wide on 4th & an inch to go with no QB sneak in the playbook....to not have practiced redzone plays with it's freakishly tall receiver, to go with an onside kick when you're sitting with 3 timeouts and two minutes left.


But he's never had a losing season.

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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:50 pm 
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I still think they play not to lose and still, even with this supposed super offensive talent, still go to the turtle too soon with a small lead, and on the other hand, play too conservative early and wait until they fall way behind to play the way they should play from the start.


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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:41 pm 
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Nick79 wrote:
I still think they play not to lose and still, even with this supposed super offensive talent, still go to the turtle too soon with a small lead, and on the other hand, play too conservative early and wait until they fall way behind to play the way they should play from the start.

Did they do that with Arians as OC?

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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:43 pm 
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Pretty sure the turtle is organizationally endemic, going back to Cowher, but if someone is willing to pull stats, have at it.


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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:53 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Pretty sure the turtle is organizationally endemic, going back to Cowher, but if someone is willing to pull stats, have at it.


I'd agree with this. It arguably still worked in the Cowher era, with fewer good QB's and less favoritism toward the offense (it's pretty shocking when you look at that transformation over just the past 10 years). But at the core is the mentality to win TOP, keeping your defense fresh and limiting turnovers and flipping field position, shorten the game. There is no conceptualization that less offensive risk = fewer points.

The most remarkable thing about NE (which I hate talking about them...because cheating and Ernie) is their offense can misfire nearly all game, but somehow string together 3 drives and score 21 points. They'll barely move the ball, and then suddenly march down the field like they can't be stopped.

I think when you handcuff players, you reduce opportunities and that leads to otherwise unecessary risk taking and pressing. You don't get to "live to fight another play" when you've reduced the margin of error such that you HAVE to have that play.

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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:07 am 
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Poltargyst wrote:
Nick79 wrote:
I still think they play not to lose and still, even with this supposed super offensive talent, still go to the turtle too soon with a small lead, and on the other hand, play too conservative early and wait until they fall way behind to play the way they should play from the start.

Did they do that with Arians as OC?


Yes, they've never fully embraced all out, balls to the wall, score, score, score, TD-TD-TD, never let up offense. NEVER.


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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:08 am 
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Nick79 wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:
Nick79 wrote:
I still think they play not to lose and still, even with this supposed super offensive talent, still go to the turtle too soon with a small lead, and on the other hand, play too conservative early and wait until they fall way behind to play the way they should play from the start.

Did they do that with Arians as OC?


Yes, they've never fully embraced all out, balls to the wall, score, score, score, TD-TD-TD, never let up offense. NEVER.


I hate to admit that Nick is right on this


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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:35 am 
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I talked about this in the Arians thread.

Under Arians I do think the Steeler offenses were more aggressive and got out to leads faster.

Here are some leads, 5 games out of the last 15 playoff games, which lead was credited to which offensive coordinator?

10-0
13-0
14-0
17-0
28-10

I will give you a hint, 4 of those 5 leads is credited to one offensive coordinator who has a better fashion sense and likes to wear hats. ;)

If anything back then under Arians they would pump the brakes and then go into turtle mode too quick, but at least they had the plan to score quick and build a lead in the first place. Now, now they don't even want the ball first they want to defer the kickoff like a bunch of pussies. That type of passive attitude is not conducive to building leads and getting out to a fast start, but what do I know?

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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:15 am 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:

I hate to admit that Nick is right on this


Why do you hate to admit the truth, just because of who said it?

TRUTH IS TRUTH, even if Hitler, Bin Laden, Trump or Hillary say it :lol:

Unless of course it's FAKE NEWS :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:25 am 
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Scunge wrote:
If anything back then under Arians they would pump the brakes and then go into turtle mode too quick, but at least they had the plan to score quick and build a lead in the first place. Now, now they don't even want the ball first they want to defer the kickoff like a bunch of pussies. That type of passive attitude is not conducive to building leads and getting out to a fast start, but what do I know?


They very often go TURTLE with a 10-14 point 3rd quarter lead, which to me is way too early and in the current NFL 14 points is NOTHING, that is proven by the Steelers themselves! How often do they open game fairly conservatively milking the clock and going 75 yards on 14 plays to get that precious FG, maybe even score a TD 1st, 3-0 or 7-0 and then halfway through the 2nd quarter, they're down 24-7 or 21-3 or something like that, so we have to go to the furious Ben centric pass offense to score quickly at the end of the half, then we are within striking distance to chase points the entire 2nd half, to finally win 34-31 on a last second FG. So why not open the game in an aggressive mode trying to score TDs as FAST AS POSSIBLE, and not worry about the clock or "shortening the game"? "Shortening the game" is good when you have Kordell and The Bus, Not the THREE Bs.


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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:42 am 
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Scunge wrote:
I talked about this in the Arians thread.

Under Arians I do think the Steeler offenses were more aggressive and got out to leads faster.

Here are some leads, 5 games out of the last 15 playoff games, which lead was credited to which offensive coordinator?

10-0
13-0
14-0
17-0
28-10

I will give you a hint, 4 of those 5 leads is credited to one offensive coordinator who has a better fashion sense and likes to wear hats. ;)

If anything back then under Arians they would pump the brakes and then go into turtle mode too quick, but at least they had the plan to score quick and build a lead in the first place. Now, now they don't even want the ball first they want to defer the kickoff like a bunch of pussies. That type of passive attitude is not conducive to building leads and getting out to a fast start, but what do I know?


for some reason the Steelers seem to not find something that works and keep doing it until the other team stops it.

I do understand that they do not want to get too much on tape early in the season and they do set up plays with other plays

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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:18 am 
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Seems like they always have one major flaw that ends up biting them late in the season. Last year it was the interior front 7. Year before it was CB. Year before it was OLB pressure. Year before it was no depth at RB.

It’s true you can’t go into every season in perfect shape but I see a trend of overlooking something then trying to patch it in the off-season which is playing catch-up.

I see 11 wins easy and probably 1-2 more. That’s really good in the big picture. Question to tomlin will be what if anything will fall apart in mid January?

If they’re able major flaws from being exposed I like our post season chances.


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 Post subject: Re: SI has Steelers at 11-5 record
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:46 pm 
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Nick79 wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:

I hate to admit that Nick is right on this


Why do you hate to admit the truth, just because of who said it?

TRUTH IS TRUTH, even if Hitler, Bin Laden, Trump or Hillary say it :lol:

Unless of course it's FAKE NEWS :lol: :lol: :lol:


Because of your over the top style and presentation, people tend to tune you out and you lose credibility.


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