It is currently Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:15 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 279 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 3181
I agree with Pabst on the Government run healthcare. But I would for two things to be run as non-for-profit companies. Education and Healthcare. In each of those areas you do not want the profit of a company to get in the way of the end product. It does not mean the Government would run healthcare or education but it does mean that the kids or the patient come first and last.

Education has it's own issues with these standardized tests. They have gotten away from teaching the kids what they need and how to think creatively.

_________________
To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.
- Henri Poincaré


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:14 pm
Posts: 1261
Pabst wrote:
Stinger8 wrote:

Should I call you Professor Pabst?? The proof is in the link I posted. You are BY FAR the most expensive and its not because your quality is so far better than EVERYONE else. Governments run all the other systems AND they are dramatically more cost effective than the US system. Think critically.

No. The link you posted just shows that the costs in the US are higher. You are inferring "profit" as a primary factor without providing evidence. Correlation =/= causation.
Secondly, other health systems reduce cost by rationing care. Please compare wait times for a knee replacement in Canada vs. the US. Also note the Alfie Evans case in the UK.

And yes, Professor Pabst is fine, thanks.

The other argument to be made here is new treatments overwhelmingly begin in the U.S. Our for profit scheme is fueling innovation, not just for us but for all of the world. What happens if we shun capitalism in medicine like much of the rest of the world? Innovation will stagnate unless governments and charitable foundations pony up significantly more money for medical research. Bottom line is a lot of countries would be sucking more tax dollars out of their people if it wasn’t for American capitalism fueling medical advancements. So Just maybe people shouldn’t have such disdain for the word “PROFIT”.

_________________
Neal Huntington on what he's been told by his bosses about $$$: "We've got assurances we're going to be able to continue to do what we've done."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:18 pm
Posts: 4870
Location: Sunny Delaware (but the murdery part)
jebrick wrote:
I agree with Pabst on the Government run healthcare. But I would for two things to be run as non-for-profit companies. Education and Healthcare. In each of those areas you do not want the profit of a company to get in the way of the end product. It does not mean the Government would run healthcare or education but it does mean that the kids or the patient come first and last.

Education has it's own issues with these standardized tests. They have gotten away from teaching the kids what they need and how to think creatively.


Agreed on the standardized tests and Campbell's Law.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:01 am
Posts: 11767
If you dig into the numbers, you'll see admin and drug costs are only about 20% of the cost differential on healthcare (yes, drug prices are higher than that, but per capita we are only 10% higher on drug costs).

The lionshare of the differential is hospitalization, and also our doctors & surgeons make 3-5X what their European counterparts do. And, personally, I'd rather not pay the docs less (and don't think most of them are overpaid).

I think, digging deeper, it comes down to we run more expensive and unnecessary tests....we over-medicate....and Americans are among the unhealthiest slobs in the developed world. And it would be interesting to look at the tail-end of the curve to see how much more we spend on extending life a few months/years and how that inflates the overall average.

I believe, in most cases, Medicare patients are unprofitable - most doctors have a cap on the number they will accept, using Medicare to "keep the lights on" but leaving capacity to treat patients they can actually make a few bucks on.

Universal healthcare in the US is
1) not going to be the coverage people expect
2) going to be much more expensive than people realize because of a variety of structural problems - the US is basically the size and population of Western Europe, and Western Europe has a variety of health plans with a wide range of effectiveness/efficiency.

_________________
------------------------------------------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:58 pm
Posts: 807
This thread has everything.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:18 pm
Posts: 4870
Location: Sunny Delaware (but the murdery part)
Laying the Wood wrote:
This thread has everything.


Well, it is pretty sorely lacking in one particular thing...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 3181
Kodiak wrote:
If you dig into the numbers, you'll see admin and drug costs are only about 20% of the cost differential on healthcare (yes, drug prices are higher than that, but per capita we are only 10% higher on drug costs).

The lionshare of the differential is hospitalization, and also our doctors & surgeons make 3-5X what their European counterparts do. And, personally, I'd rather not pay the docs less (and don't think most of them are overpaid).

I think, digging deeper, it comes down to we run more expensive and unnecessary tests....we over-medicate....and Americans are among the unhealthiest slobs in the developed world. And it would be interesting to look at the tail-end of the curve to see how much more we spend on extending life a few months/years and how that inflates the overall average.

I believe, in most cases, Medicare patients are unprofitable - most doctors have a cap on the number they will accept, using Medicare to "keep the lights on" but leaving capacity to treat patients they can actually make a few bucks on.

Universal healthcare in the US is
1) not going to be the coverage people expect
2) going to be much more expensive than people realize because of a variety of structural problems - the US is basically the size and population of Western Europe, and Western Europe has a variety of health plans with a wide range of effectiveness/efficiency.


they would have to change the tort law for the Doctors. One thing driving the price of doctors is the cost of malpractice insurance. It makes doctors leave the profession because they lose money just keeping the insurance.

_________________
To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.
- Henri Poincaré


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:13 pm
Posts: 1749
jebrick wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
If you dig into the numbers, you'll see admin and drug costs are only about 20% of the cost differential on healthcare (yes, drug prices are higher than that, but per capita we are only 10% higher on drug costs).

The lionshare of the differential is hospitalization, and also our doctors & surgeons make 3-5X what their European counterparts do. And, personally, I'd rather not pay the docs less (and don't think most of them are overpaid).

I think, digging deeper, it comes down to we run more expensive and unnecessary tests....we over-medicate....and Americans are among the unhealthiest slobs in the developed world. And it would be interesting to look at the tail-end of the curve to see how much more we spend on extending life a few months/years and how that inflates the overall average.

I believe, in most cases, Medicare patients are unprofitable - most doctors have a cap on the number they will accept, using Medicare to "keep the lights on" but leaving capacity to treat patients they can actually make a few bucks on.

Universal healthcare in the US is
1) not going to be the coverage people expect
2) going to be much more expensive than people realize because of a variety of structural problems - the US is basically the size and population of Western Europe, and Western Europe has a variety of health plans with a wide range of effectiveness/efficiency.


they would have to change the tort law for the Doctors. One thing driving the price of doctors is the cost of malpractice insurance. It makes doctors leave the profession because they lose money just keeping the insurance.

There's also a practice called 'defensive medicine'. Basically, fear of being sued causes doctors to order/perform a bunch of unnecessary tests purely as a CYA measure.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 3181
Pabst wrote:
There's also a practice called 'defensive medicine'. Basically, fear of being sued causes doctors to order/perform a bunch of unnecessary tests purely as a CYA measure.


Or being owned by a corporation that gains profit for each test as it also owns the testing facility.

_________________
To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.
- Henri Poincaré


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:58 pm
Posts: 807
So what's the right's beef with Joy Behar? I think she is delightful.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:09 pm
Posts: 865
Location: Baja Sharkeez Newport Beach
Laying the Wood wrote:
. . . Joy Behar? I think she is delightful.

Slumpbuster? Perhaps the Buccos should inquire?

_________________
Image "I did glance to my right, over to the Raiders sideline, and The Fat Fuck John Madden was going absolutely ballistic...hair flying....fat arms waving." swissvale72


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:13 pm
Posts: 1749
jebrick wrote:
Pabst wrote:
There's also a practice called 'defensive medicine'. Basically, fear of being sued causes doctors to order/perform a bunch of unnecessary tests purely as a CYA measure.


Or being owned by a corporation that gains profit for each test as it also owns the testing facility.

You do know that less than 20% of Hospitals in the US are for-profit facilities, right?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:01 am
Posts: 11767
Pabst wrote:
You do know that less than 20% of Hospitals in the US are for-profit facilities, right?


That's the amazing thing - why are hospital stays like 10X what they cost in Europe? And I'm talking the price paid by insurance, not the phoney "listed" price.

_________________
------------------------------------------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:09 am
Posts: 373
Meanwhile, what does Trump want with Canada imposing a tariffs calling us a security risk to the U.S.? Before 9/11, we could cross the border with a driver's licence. Are we going to do threated the American nation by being overly polite? We protect our dairy industry & the U.S. protects its tobacco industry with even higher tariffs & overall numbers. We can grow a lot more of it in the land above Lake Erie but cannot sell it to the U.S. The countries supply chains are intertwined & we are in an import/export deficit not surplus including all goods & services. Even just considering just goods, it's only a Canadian surplus if you include foreign goods coming into the U.S. through Canada.
Meanwhile, we've sent our troops & war equipment to help in all your shitty wars like Afghanistan & Iraq & in 1812 we did burn down the White House but only after the Americans burned Toronto? But he likes the demi-Hitler in North Korea. He also blames us because American drug prices are too high as Canada regulates the drug companies from charging way too much & the U.S. won't. By the way, from a distance, we see John McCain as the great American hero & wish that we have had someone like him in our recent past.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:01 am
Posts: 11767
blu wrote:
He also blames us because American drug prices are too high as Canada regulates the drug companies from charging way too much & the U.S. won't.


Because SOMEONE has to pay for the R&D. The US is basically subsidizing global pharma research. Sure, we can price fix pharma costs, but then we have to raise taxes to massively increase govt funded drug research (which actually might not be a bad thing for R&D to be centrally planned).

As for the other stuff, like the milk tariffs....Trump seems to be ignoring the massive subsidies given to US farming, and countries usually impose tariffs to level the playing field when govt subsidies are involved.

_________________
------------------------------------------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:35 pm
Posts: 7907
blu wrote:
in 1812 we did burn down the White House

I'm still really pissed about this.

_________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
--Voltaire


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:35 pm
Posts: 7907
Ice wrote:
Laying the Wood wrote:
This thread has everything.


Well, it is pretty sorely lacking in one particular thing...

Image

_________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
--Voltaire


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:18 pm
Posts: 4870
Location: Sunny Delaware (but the murdery part)
:lol: :lol: :lol:

And here I would have been satisfied with someone wishing ball cancer on an internet opponent. Well played, sir.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:35 pm
Posts: 7907
:lol:

_________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
--Voltaire


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 279 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Hinestuff, Joey's Pitbull and 30 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
FORUM RULES --- PRIVACY POLICY




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group