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 Post subject: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:04 pm 
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ATLANTA -- NFL owners have unanimously approved a new national anthem policy that requires players to stand if they are on the field during the performance but gives them the option to remain in the locker room if they prefer, it was announced Wednesday.

The policy subjects teams to a fine if a player or any other team personnel do not show respect for the anthem. That includes any attempt to sit or kneel, as dozens of players have done during the past two seasons to protest racial inequality and police brutality. Those teams will also have the option to fine any team personnel, including players, for the infraction.
"We want people to be respectful of the national anthem," commissioner Roger Goodell said. "We want people to stand -- that's all personnel -- and make sure they treat this moment in a respectful fashion. That's something we think we owe. [But] we were also very sensitive to give players choices."

All 32 owners approved the policy, which will be part of the NFL's game operations manual and thus not subject to collective bargaining. The NFL Players Association said in a statement that it will review the policy and "challenge any aspect" that is inconsistent with the CBA.

San Francisco 49ers owner Jed York, however, said he abstained from Wednesday's vote on the new policy. He didn't say he opposed the policy, nor would reveal if any other team abstained.

Some important details remained unclear in the hours after the policy's approval, including the specific fine that teams would be subject to and also how the league will define respect for the flag.

After spending months in discussions, and another three hours over two days at the league's spring meetings, owners said this found a compromise that will end sitting or kneeling with an edict that stops short of requiring every player to stand.

The previous policy required players to be on the field for the anthem but said only that they "should" stand. When then-San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick began kneeling in 2016, the league had no rule it could use to prevent it. The movement drew increasing criticism from President Donald Trump, as well as many fans, who believed it was a sign of disrespect toward the flag and country.

Owners, however, had been divided on how to extricate the league from that criticism. Some owners, including the Dallas Cowboys' Jerry Jones and the Houston Texans' Bob McNair, wanted all players to stand. Others, such as the New York Jets' Christopher Johnson, wanted to avoid any appearance of muzzling players.

Even the seemingly simple option of clearing the field prior to the anthem was rejected by some owners who thought it would be interpreted as a mass protest or at least a sign of disrespect.

Earlier this week, the league finalized an $89 million social justice platform with players to help address "some of the underlying issues" that were under protest, said Mark Murphy, the Green Bay Packers' president/CEO.

"I think we learned from each other in order to come to a unanimous consensus," Murphy said. "We also talked a lot about our players. I think when you look back at last fall, it was difficult for all of us within the league. But one of the positives that came out of it was an improved relationship with our players."

In a statement accompanying the announcement, Goodell said the league wanted to eliminate criticism that suggested the protests were unpatriotic.

"It was unfortunate that on-field protests created a false perception among many that thousands of NFL players were unpatriotic," Goodell said. "This is not and was never the case."

Kaepernick and former 49ers safety Eric Reid have both filed collusion cases against the league after failing to find jobs as free agents.


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:25 pm 
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This will end badly as they have not defined ' stand in a respectful fashion'. The owner gave almost zero thought to this. Fining clubs because their players are not respectful? It would be much easier to allow then to have their cleats painted for their causes in every game.

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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 4:12 pm 
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Lord this never ends


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 6:24 pm 
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This still an unresolved issue? really? Just keep Everyone in the locker room till the ceremonies are all over with. Problem solved!


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 6:27 pm 
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This probably opened up a nice settlement for Kaep and Reid. Doubt that they ever see the field again.


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 6:43 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
This still an unresolved issue? really? Just keep Everyone in the locker room till the ceremonies are all over with. Problem solved!

Agreed.


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:29 pm 
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NFL could learn a thing or ten from Adam Silver and the NBA.

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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:49 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
This still an unresolved issue? really? Just keep Everyone in the locker room till the ceremonies are all over with. Problem solved!


I think they did the right thing. Players who don't want to stand have the option of staying in the locker room. For once, Goodell used common sense.

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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:09 am 
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TB wrote:
NFL could learn a thing or ten from Adam Silver and the NBA.


I don't follow the NBA- what happened?


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:25 am 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
TB wrote:
NFL could learn a thing or ten from Adam Silver and the NBA.


I don't follow the NBA- what happened?


The NBA just generally supports its players and acts like it gives a shit about them and doesn't tell them to sit down (or stand in this case) and shut the fuck up.

For all the success its had (which I believe is coming to an end soon), the NFL is just an embarrassingly poorly run organization.

I say that no matter where you come down on the kneeling issue. Goodell has simultaneously managed to piss off the players, people who support them, and people who want them to stand. He's a real jack of all trades.


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:34 am 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
TB wrote:
NFL could learn a thing or ten from Adam Silver and the NBA.


I don't follow the NBA- what happened?


The NBA just generally supports its players and acts like it gives a shit about them and doesn't tell them to sit down (or stand in this case) and shut the fuck up.

For all the success its had (which I believe is coming to an end soon), the NFL is just an embarrassingly poorly run organization.


Exactly. Two examples are the owner of the Sacremento Kings comments after the police shooting/murder a few months ago of the unarmed man in his backyard. Also, the management of the Milwaukee Bucks released a comment after the video of the tasering/assault of Sterling Brown surfaced yesterday.

NFL owners are complete idiots; wildly successful, some; others are mostly the beneficiaries of trust funds. But they are totally butchering this entire issue and only fracturing fanbases more and more.


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:00 pm 
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What do you expect the owners to do? They are businessmen. Right or wrong, they thought kneeling was bad for business. They attributed the falling ratings to pissed off Americans. There was a lot of anecdotal evidence of that, but I haven't seen a study to support it. The owners have to make a calculated decision. If they allow it, they will be viewed as catering to the social justice mob. If they don't allow it, they will be seen as catering to the America-First crowd. They obviously chose the one that is better business for them.


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:07 pm 
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Also, I wouldn't want Adam Silver to run a local condominium association, let alone the NBA. He has all the leadership qualities of a soaking wet blanket. That product is so poor and ratings have been free falling for years.


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:11 pm 
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Quote:
The NBA actually has a rule against kneeling for the national anthem
56
Will the league enforce it if a player tests the rule? It did two decades ago, but it’s a different time now.
By Tim Cato@tim_cato Updated Sep 29, 2017, 9:33pm EDT




Quote:
If you’re wondering if we might see a similar form of expression in the NBA, you might be surprised that there’s actually a rule against it.

Officially, the rule is this:

2) Players, coaches, and trainers are to stand and line up in a dignified posture along the sidelines or on the foul line during the playing of the National Anthem.

You can see it in the league’s official rulebook under the “Player/Team Conduct and Dress” section, below a rule requiring players to be “uniformly dressed” and above one requiring coaches to wear a sports coat.

The NBA did not reply to our request for comment.

However, on Friday, the NBA issued a memo to teams reminding them of the rule that requires players and coaches to stand for the national anthem.

Adam Silver confirmed to reporters that the league expects players to stand for the national anthem, citing the rule.


https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/25/16358070/national-anthem-protest-kneel-kneel-rule


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:55 pm 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
TB wrote:
NFL could learn a thing or ten from Adam Silver and the NBA.


I don't follow the NBA- what happened?


The NBA just generally supports its players and acts like it gives a shit about them and doesn't tell them to sit down (or stand in this case) and shut the fuck up.

For all the success its had (which I believe is coming to an end soon), the NFL is just an embarrassingly poorly run organization.

I say that no matter where you come down on the kneeling issue. Goodell has simultaneously managed to piss off the players, people who support them, and people who want them to stand. He's a real jack of all trades.


What is ironic(?) is that until last year the kneeling thing pretty much had gone off peoples' radar. The season started and everyone was like "remember CK and how he used to kneel?". There were a handful of others who kneeled but no one cared. There was a collective shoulder shrug and people were focused the new season and the hype and hope that it brings.

Then Trump sends his tweet or whatever saying people who kneel are criminals, disrespect, yadda yadda. Well he awoke the sleeping bear. So if the owners should be pissed at anyone, it should be Trump. And I'm not a blame Trump for the weather we're having type person.
{Please don't turn this into a political debate, I'm merely recapping the timeline}

I just find it highly comical that he majority of NFL owners are Trump guys, yet he is the one who caused all this recent firestorm. That being said the NFL owners handled this situation as you would expect a bunch of old white dudes with zero perspective...


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:13 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
What is ironic(?) is that until last year the kneeling thing pretty much had gone off peoples' radar. The season started and everyone was like "remember CK and how he used to kneel?". There were a handful of others who kneeled but no one cared. There was a collective shoulder shrug and people were focused the new season and the hype and hope that it brings.

Then Trump sends his tweet or whatever saying people who kneel are criminals, disrespect, yadda yadda. Well he awoke the sleeping bear. So if the owners should be pissed at anyone, it should be Trump. And I'm not a blame Trump for the weather we're having type person.
{Please don't turn this into a political debate, I'm merely recapping the timeline}

I just find it highly comical that he majority of NFL owners are Trump guys, yet he is the one who caused all this recent firestorm. That being said the NFL owners handled this situation as you would expect a bunch of old white dudes with zero perspective...


Bunch of snowflakes!


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:31 pm 
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Half the teams in the NBA are losing money (Source), and the NFL as a whole is bringing in 3x as much revenue (Source)

Ratings for the NBA Finals are about the same as a typical Sunday Night Football game in the regular season. And the NBA is still way below their TV ratings from the 80s and 90s.

Bitch about the NFL all you want, but to say the NBA is better run is absurd.

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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:34 pm 
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I just found a UBS (the bank) study which surveyed 2,000 people and 50% said the anthem protests were the main reason they stopped watching football. Wow. I know that is a small sample, but clearly the owners are alarmed by it. I don't care what color of skin the owners have. The rich "white dude" argument is so tired and silly at this point. They are worried about the color green...and rightfully so...it is a business.

I personally think the increased politicization of sports in general is hurting all major sports. ESPN used to be a feeder for driving high sports ratings and interest. Many people, like myself included, were tuning in only to be lectured to about the social injustices and how we may have contributed to them. Men were and are being constantly lectured about female empowerment and how men drive the ills of society. So, people (mostly men) started to tune out in droves. Surprise! That in turn has an affect on the overall interest level in watching sports.

I don't want politics in my sports. Most people don't, but certain networks can't help themselves...and they will continue to the pay the price.


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
Half the teams in the NBA are losing money (Source), and the NFL as a whole is bringing in 3x as much revenue (Source)

Ratings for the NBA Finals are about the same as a typical Sunday Night Football game in the regular season. And the NBA is still way below their TV ratings from the 80s and 90s.

Bitch about the NFL all you want, but to say the NBA is better run is absurd.


Here's an example of false equivalency:
We decide to run a lemonade stand together and we split the profits. I run this stand from June to August and you get to run it from Sept to Dec.

So because I had higher GP margins, does that mean I'm a better manager?


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:42 pm 
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franco32 wrote:
I just found a UBS (the bank) study which surveyed 2,000 people and 50% said the anthem protests were the main reason they stopped watching football. Wow. I know that is a small sample, but clearly the owners are alarmed by it. I don't care what color of skin the owners have. The rich "white dude" argument is so tired and silly at this point. They are worried about the color green...and rightfully so...it is a business.

I personally think the increased politicization of sports in general is hurting all major sports. ESPN used to be a feeder for driving high sports ratings and interest. Many people, like myself included, were tuning in only to be lectured to about the social injustices and how we may have contributed to them. Men were and are being constantly lectured about female empowerment and how men drive the ills of society. So, people (mostly men) started to tune out in droves. Surprise! That in turn has an affect on the overall interest level in watching sports.

I don't want politics in my sports. Most people don't, but certain networks can't help themselves...and they will continue to the pay the price.


Oh I believe that study. The watercooler talk in my workplace and others were similar. Many people were mad at this kneeling and stopped watching. Was all over FB. Seems drastic, but people voted with their feet and wallets.

As to the "rich white dude" argument, I mean they are. And the way this league is run, well it seems archaic and draconian.

I'm with you though that I don't want politics in my sports or vice versa. But it just seems that ever since Disney bought ESPN...well they love the drama because they know it draws eyeballs. Other sports networks soon followed suit and here we are. And I doubt we're going back...


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:45 pm 
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franco32 wrote:
I just found a UBS (the bank) study which surveyed 2,000 people and 50% said the anthem protests were the main reason they stopped watching football. Wow. I know that is a small sample, but clearly the owners are alarmed by it. I don't care what color of skin the owners have. The rich "white dude" argument is so tired and silly at this point. They are worried about the color green...and rightfully so...it is a business.

I personally think the increased politicization of sports in general is hurting all major sports. ESPN used to be a feeder for driving high sports ratings and interest. Many people, like myself included, were tuning in only to be lectured to about the social injustices and how we may have contributed to them. Men were and are being constantly lectured about female empowerment and how men drive the ills of society. So, people (mostly men) started to tune out in droves. Surprise! That in turn has an affect on the overall interest level in watching sports.

I don't want politics in my sports. Most people don't, but certain networks can't help themselves...and they will continue to the pay the price.


Here's an idea for the players who want to protest - do it on your own fucking time. Go down to the police station, city hall or the fucking Capitol or White House for that matter and protest all you want. You know what? You do it that way, you'll for sure get your name in the media and lend your name to the cause. Don't do it in the workplace, whatever the protest may be. If I did any kind of political protest on my work premises especially during working hours, I'd be tossed out on my ass quicker than shit.

Franco - you are absolutely correct with this post.

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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:41 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Pabst wrote:
Half the teams in the NBA are losing money (Source), and the NFL as a whole is bringing in 3x as much revenue (Source)

Ratings for the NBA Finals are about the same as a typical Sunday Night Football game in the regular season. And the NBA is still way below their TV ratings from the 80s and 90s.

Bitch about the NFL all you want, but to say the NBA is better run is absurd.


Here's an example of false equivalency:
We decide to run a lemonade stand together and we split the profits. I run this stand from June to August and you get to run it from Sept to Dec.

So because I had higher GP margins, does that mean I'm a better manager?

No, and I'm honestly not sure what that has to do with what I just said. My response was primarily to this:
Quote:
The NBA just generally supports its players and acts like it gives a shit about them and doesn't tell them to sit down (or stand in this case) and shut the fuck up.
For all the success its had (which I believe is coming to an end soon), the NFL is just an embarrassingly poorly run organization.

And this:
Quote:
NFL owners are complete idiots; wildly successful, some; others are mostly the beneficiaries of trust funds. But they are totally butchering this entire issue and only fracturing fanbases more and more.


Like i said - bitch about the NFL owners all you want, but the NBA has serious problems of it's own. One specific issue is not indicative of how each league as a whole is run.


Also, regarding the kneeling issue - the NBA is very unique when it comes to American sports. Overall, your typical sports fan is Center-Right politically. Fans of the MLB and NFL lean (slightly) Republican. The NHL is a bit more conservative. NBA fans, on the other hand, are overwhelmingly Liberal, and are much more inclined to side with the protest. Here's the link if anyone is curious: http://www.businessinsider.com/politics-sports-you-like-2013-3

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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:49 pm 
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Was interesting how Republican and high turnout college football fans plotted.


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:58 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Was interesting how Republican and high turnout college football fans plotted.

Not really. College football is most popular in deep red states (Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska).

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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 3:29 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
franco32 wrote:
I just found a UBS (the bank) study which surveyed 2,000 people and 50% said the anthem protests were the main reason they stopped watching football. Wow. I know that is a small sample, but clearly the owners are alarmed by it. I don't care what color of skin the owners have. The rich "white dude" argument is so tired and silly at this point. They are worried about the color green...and rightfully so...it is a business.

I personally think the increased politicization of sports in general is hurting all major sports. ESPN used to be a feeder for driving high sports ratings and interest. Many people, like myself included, were tuning in only to be lectured to about the social injustices and how we may have contributed to them. Men were and are being constantly lectured about female empowerment and how men drive the ills of society. So, people (mostly men) started to tune out in droves. Surprise! That in turn has an affect on the overall interest level in watching sports.

I don't want politics in my sports. Most people don't, but certain networks can't help themselves...and they will continue to the pay the price.


Here's an idea for the players who want to protest - do it on your own fucking time. Go down to the police station, city hall or the fucking Capitol or White House for that matter and protest all you want. You know what? You do it that way, you'll for sure get your name in the media and lend your name to the cause. Don't do it in the workplace, whatever the protest may be. If I did any kind of political protest on my work premises especially during working hours, I'd be tossed out on my ass quicker than shit.

Franco - you are absolutely correct with this post.


They're fucking silently kneeling during the national anthem, not holding picket signs. This is all so fucking stupid.

And it's perpetuated by the people who are spitting on John McCain's legacy. Saying he wasn't a hero because he was captured, calling him "Singing" John McCain because of unfounded claims of his breaking under torture, saying his opinion/vote doesn't matter because he'll be dead soon, etc. He is one of the greatest living Americans, a great patriot and public servant, and this is how he's being treated in his final months. All by someone who dodged the draft because of "bone spurs." It's disgusting.

The false-patriotism and hypocrisy is fucking sickening. Support our troops! (Except when it comes to healthcare, mental healthcare, providing support for them as they enter society, providing adequate body armor... the list goes on and on).

Also, when you're an asshole, I know it sucks to be told to stop being an asshole. I feel for you.

You're all butthurt, triggered snowflakes.


Last edited by Laying the Wood on Thu May 24, 2018 3:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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