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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:11 pm 
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I agree with Pabst on the Government run healthcare. But I would for two things to be run as non-for-profit companies. Education and Healthcare. In each of those areas you do not want the profit of a company to get in the way of the end product. It does not mean the Government would run healthcare or education but it does mean that the kids or the patient come first and last.

Education has it's own issues with these standardized tests. They have gotten away from teaching the kids what they need and how to think creatively.

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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:23 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
Stinger8 wrote:

Should I call you Professor Pabst?? The proof is in the link I posted. You are BY FAR the most expensive and its not because your quality is so far better than EVERYONE else. Governments run all the other systems AND they are dramatically more cost effective than the US system. Think critically.

No. The link you posted just shows that the costs in the US are higher. You are inferring "profit" as a primary factor without providing evidence. Correlation =/= causation.
Secondly, other health systems reduce cost by rationing care. Please compare wait times for a knee replacement in Canada vs. the US. Also note the Alfie Evans case in the UK.

And yes, Professor Pabst is fine, thanks.

The other argument to be made here is new treatments overwhelmingly begin in the U.S. Our for profit scheme is fueling innovation, not just for us but for all of the world. What happens if we shun capitalism in medicine like much of the rest of the world? Innovation will stagnate unless governments and charitable foundations pony up significantly more money for medical research. Bottom line is a lot of countries would be sucking more tax dollars out of their people if it wasn’t for American capitalism fueling medical advancements. So Just maybe people shouldn’t have such disdain for the word “PROFIT”.

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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:46 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
I agree with Pabst on the Government run healthcare. But I would for two things to be run as non-for-profit companies. Education and Healthcare. In each of those areas you do not want the profit of a company to get in the way of the end product. It does not mean the Government would run healthcare or education but it does mean that the kids or the patient come first and last.

Education has it's own issues with these standardized tests. They have gotten away from teaching the kids what they need and how to think creatively.


Agreed on the standardized tests and Campbell's Law.


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:41 pm 
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If you dig into the numbers, you'll see admin and drug costs are only about 20% of the cost differential on healthcare (yes, drug prices are higher than that, but per capita we are only 10% higher on drug costs).

The lionshare of the differential is hospitalization, and also our doctors & surgeons make 3-5X what their European counterparts do. And, personally, I'd rather not pay the docs less (and don't think most of them are overpaid).

I think, digging deeper, it comes down to we run more expensive and unnecessary tests....we over-medicate....and Americans are among the unhealthiest slobs in the developed world. And it would be interesting to look at the tail-end of the curve to see how much more we spend on extending life a few months/years and how that inflates the overall average.

I believe, in most cases, Medicare patients are unprofitable - most doctors have a cap on the number they will accept, using Medicare to "keep the lights on" but leaving capacity to treat patients they can actually make a few bucks on.

Universal healthcare in the US is
1) not going to be the coverage people expect
2) going to be much more expensive than people realize because of a variety of structural problems - the US is basically the size and population of Western Europe, and Western Europe has a variety of health plans with a wide range of effectiveness/efficiency.

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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:42 pm 
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This thread has everything.


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:24 am 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
This thread has everything.


Well, it is pretty sorely lacking in one particular thing...


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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:22 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
If you dig into the numbers, you'll see admin and drug costs are only about 20% of the cost differential on healthcare (yes, drug prices are higher than that, but per capita we are only 10% higher on drug costs).

The lionshare of the differential is hospitalization, and also our doctors & surgeons make 3-5X what their European counterparts do. And, personally, I'd rather not pay the docs less (and don't think most of them are overpaid).

I think, digging deeper, it comes down to we run more expensive and unnecessary tests....we over-medicate....and Americans are among the unhealthiest slobs in the developed world. And it would be interesting to look at the tail-end of the curve to see how much more we spend on extending life a few months/years and how that inflates the overall average.

I believe, in most cases, Medicare patients are unprofitable - most doctors have a cap on the number they will accept, using Medicare to "keep the lights on" but leaving capacity to treat patients they can actually make a few bucks on.

Universal healthcare in the US is
1) not going to be the coverage people expect
2) going to be much more expensive than people realize because of a variety of structural problems - the US is basically the size and population of Western Europe, and Western Europe has a variety of health plans with a wide range of effectiveness/efficiency.


they would have to change the tort law for the Doctors. One thing driving the price of doctors is the cost of malpractice insurance. It makes doctors leave the profession because they lose money just keeping the insurance.

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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:10 am 
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jebrick wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
If you dig into the numbers, you'll see admin and drug costs are only about 20% of the cost differential on healthcare (yes, drug prices are higher than that, but per capita we are only 10% higher on drug costs).

The lionshare of the differential is hospitalization, and also our doctors & surgeons make 3-5X what their European counterparts do. And, personally, I'd rather not pay the docs less (and don't think most of them are overpaid).

I think, digging deeper, it comes down to we run more expensive and unnecessary tests....we over-medicate....and Americans are among the unhealthiest slobs in the developed world. And it would be interesting to look at the tail-end of the curve to see how much more we spend on extending life a few months/years and how that inflates the overall average.

I believe, in most cases, Medicare patients are unprofitable - most doctors have a cap on the number they will accept, using Medicare to "keep the lights on" but leaving capacity to treat patients they can actually make a few bucks on.

Universal healthcare in the US is
1) not going to be the coverage people expect
2) going to be much more expensive than people realize because of a variety of structural problems - the US is basically the size and population of Western Europe, and Western Europe has a variety of health plans with a wide range of effectiveness/efficiency.


they would have to change the tort law for the Doctors. One thing driving the price of doctors is the cost of malpractice insurance. It makes doctors leave the profession because they lose money just keeping the insurance.

There's also a practice called 'defensive medicine'. Basically, fear of being sued causes doctors to order/perform a bunch of unnecessary tests purely as a CYA measure.

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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:15 am 
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Pabst wrote:
There's also a practice called 'defensive medicine'. Basically, fear of being sued causes doctors to order/perform a bunch of unnecessary tests purely as a CYA measure.


Or being owned by a corporation that gains profit for each test as it also owns the testing facility.

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 Post subject: Re: New National Anthem Policy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:38 am 
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So what's the right's beef with Joy Behar? I think she is delightful.


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