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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more year
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:47 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
955876 wrote:
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I don't want to see him playing for another team.


I don’t either.

However, if he keeps throwing fewer TDs and more INTs than his counterpart in postseason games him playing elsewhere could become pretty attractive

Keeps? Like he threw 5 TDs and 1 INT in his last game?

There has been exactly one time in his last 6 postseason games that he has thrown fewer TDs and more INTs that his counterpart.


I posted the stats some time back. They really aren’t debatable as the numbers are what they are.

Start with our most recent Super Bowl and move forward.

And I’ve also said this before, and that’s when it comes to winning postseason games sometimes it’s the throws you don’t make as much as the ones you do that make a difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:47 pm 
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He was the best QB in football the second half of the season IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:51 pm 
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Ice wrote:
The fact that this non-sequitur of a media exchange has generated 16 pages, and the fact that this is the direction it's taking, is probably the 3rd biggest reason to miss Penguins playoff hockey already. Currently hoping the Buccos can make some noise until there's some real football to talk. All this thread needs is to somehow blame it on Tomlin...


Ask and ye shall receive.

BECAUSE TOMLIN!

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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:52 pm 
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TB wrote:
Ben is coming off one of the greatest performances of his career. Arguably 3 top 15-20 plays in his entire career came in his last game against the best D in football.

Dude is far from finished. Have a feeling he's going to feast next season.


One QB turned the ball over and one didn’t.

Wanna pretty sure bet?

The QB that turns it over less often is the winning QB in a postseason game.

But ya, let’s celebrate some stats that get piled on in a losing effort.

I’m not questioning his ability.

I’m questioning why such a seasoned vet is still tossing picks down by his own EZ rather than just throwing it away.

As great as those 5 TDs were, it was his turnovers that played a huge part in creating the hole we were in.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:10 pm 
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It was a one score game 9 minutes left in the third, there was no "piled on" stats.

We lost the game because the Jaguars had three possessions in the fourth quarter:

5 plays, 61 yards, TD - in 2:10
8 plays, 75 yards, TD - in 4:46
4 plays, 9 yards after the failed onside kick, FG - in 33 seconds

We would've been better served if the defense literally laid down on the f'n field and let them walk into the endzone, at least our offense would have had more time to work with. You cannot win a game if your defense is letting your opponent march down the field with ease.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:10 pm 
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TB wrote:
He was the best QB in football the second half of the season IMO.


And got bounced at home in the playoffs to a team they had already played and two weeks to prepare for.

Ben’s turnovers early put us in a hole we couldn’t dig out of.

Simply looking at the players involved one would expect it to be Bortles tossing picks and fumbling.

Not the 14 year veteran HOFer that had the benefit of playing at home and two weeks to prep.

Go figure.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:14 pm 
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955876 wrote:
TB wrote:
He was the best QB in football the second half of the season IMO.


And got bounced at home in the playoffs to a team they had already played and two weeks to prepare for.

Ben’s turnovers early put us in a hole we couldn’t dig out of.

Simply looking at the players involved one would expect it to be Bortles tossing picks and fumbling.

Not the 14 year veteran HOFer that had the benefit of playing at home and two weeks to prep.

Go figure.


Umm, we did dig out of the hole. We scored 42 points against the best D in football.

We lost the game because the defense could not stop them at all. It was Varsity against JV. The Jags scored 17 points in the fourth quarter and marched down the field with ease.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:27 pm 
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And here are the stats you were questioning B2B...

Last 6 postseason games:
Ben has 9 TDs and 5 INTs with a 3-3 record.
Counterparts are 7/3.

I’m sure you’ll agree that 5 TD game was more an anomaly than the norm. Stats show it’s on the far end of his curve. So even though he has more TDs (aided greatly by one game) he also still has more INTs. And that’s never a winning metric.

And why stop at 6 games? Cherry picking?

Why not go back to the last SB we lost?

Go back that far, which makes sense to me given it was the last time we sniffed a championship, and the stats get worse for Benjisan.

All of a sudden it’s 13 TDs/10 INTs vs 14 TDs/3 INTs.

Are you actually going to defend or try to spin those stats?

7 INTs to 3?

And fewer TDs even with a 5 TD game in the books?

His average number of TDs WITH that 5 TD game is 1.44/game over 9 games.

Without the Jville game he is a 1 TD/game QB over those 8 games.

His counterparts are 1.5.

He also threw a pick a game over those 8 games.

His counterparts, 0.375

Turnovers lose football games. Especially postseason games.

I’m not going to say what he did vs Jville wasn’t impressive.

But are you going to argue he’s been playing winning ball in the postseason over the past DECADE?

The stats support my argument.

In spades.


Last edited by 955876 on Wed May 09, 2018 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:35 pm 
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TB wrote:
955876 wrote:
TB wrote:
He was the best QB in football the second half of the season IMO.


And got bounced at home in the playoffs to a team they had already played and two weeks to prepare for.

Ben’s turnovers early put us in a hole we couldn’t dig out of.

Simply looking at the players involved one would expect it to be Bortles tossing picks and fumbling.

Not the 14 year veteran HOFer that had the benefit of playing at home and two weeks to prep.

Go figure.


Umm, we did dig out of the hole. We scored 42 points against the best D in football.

We lost the game because the defense could not stop them at all. It was Varsity against JV. The Jags scored 17 points in the fourth quarter and marched down the field with ease.


I agree the D was horrific.

But shouldn’t Ben know just how bad they are too?

Shouldn’t Ben know that tossing a pick that leads to 7 is going to be VERY detrimental given how bad the D is?

We can play this game all day. Want me to pull up games throughout league history where a QB puts up impressive “stats” but loses the game? Most likely a result of those pesky fumbles & INTs they sprinkled in along the way. In numbers greater than their counterparts.


Ben is a stud.

He just still makes boneheaded mistakes that at this point the team isn’t able to overcome.

He needs to know he can’t have those mistakes.

Not sure what you guys are defending here.

In our last 9 postseason games Ben has 10 picks. His counterparts have 3.

And if Cincy doesn’t completely meltdown, he is likely 2-7 over those 9 games.


Last edited by 955876 on Wed May 09, 2018 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:54 pm 
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TB wrote:
4 plays, 9 yards after the failed onside kick, FG - in 33 seconds

.


FUCKING TOMLIN!!!

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:58 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
TB wrote:
Ben is coming off one of the greatest performances of his career. Arguably 3 top 15-20 plays in his entire career came in his last game against the best D in football.

Dude is far from finished. Have a feeling he's going to feast next season.

From week 6 onwards, (coincidentally right about the time they tried to get Haley off the sideline and brought Fichtner down) he was a stud. 277-424 65.3% 3451 8.14YPA 27/8 103.8 rating


The 8.14 YPA is beastly. More of that, please.

Looking for a big year from Ben and hopefully great things from our new OC.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 6:10 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
TB wrote:
Ben is coming off one of the greatest performances of his career. Arguably 3 top 15-20 plays in his entire career came in his last game against the best D in football.

Dude is far from finished. Have a feeling he's going to feast next season.

From week 6 onwards, (coincidentally right about the time they tried to get Haley off the sideline and brought Fichtner down) he was a stud. 277-424 65.3% 3451 8.14YPA 27/8 103.8 rating

Not so coincidentally.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
TB wrote:
Ben is coming off one of the greatest performances of his career. Arguably 3 top 15-20 plays in his entire career came in his last game against the best D in football.

Dude is far from finished. Have a feeling he's going to feast next season.

From week 6 onwards, (coincidentally right about the time they tried to get Haley off the sideline and brought Fichtner down) he was a stud. 277-424 65.3% 3451 8.14YPA 27/8 103.8 rating

Not so coincidentally.


Looks like Jeemie has competition for the highly coveted Hall Monitor position at Steelerfury.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Kay Adams thinks the Rudolph drafting will be beneficial for both the team and Ben. Listen....

http://www.nfl.com/videos/good-morning- ... on-Rudolph


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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 2:38 pm 
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I listened. I doubt the presence of Rudolph is going to "benefit" Ben this season. Down the road... who knows.

This season, I expect Ben to benefit from having a 2nd year JuJu, the rook Washington, and new OC Fichtner.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 3:33 pm 
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If a 15 year veteran QB that hasn’t won shit of any significance in a decade while losing to the likes of Tim Tebow & Blake Bortles in the postseason needs a rookie QB to “motivate” him we might as well trade him now and start that rookie QB.

I doubt this is the case.

Seems more like babble from writers that need shit to babble about to justify their existence.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 4:02 pm 
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955876 wrote:
If a 15 year veteran QB that hasn’t won shit of any significance in a decade while losing to the likes of Tim Tebow & Blake Bortles in the postseason needs a rookie QB to “motivate” him we might as well trade him now and start that rookie QB.

I doubt this is the case.

Seems more like babble from writers that need shit to babble about to justify their existence.


No predraft hype, months till preseason. Material is scarce.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 4:17 pm 
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Most likely...


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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 7:51 pm 
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Thought it to be outrageous as well. Almost felt insulted for the team and Ben watching her go through her monologue about all the greats that were inspired by the new guy. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 12:35 pm 
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I don't know. I do think Rudolph, the drafting of Rudolph will have an impact on Ben. We know it pissed him off. We know he won't be spouting off about retiring anytime soon like he has been the past couple seasons.

Say what you want but I love that they drafted a real prospect. This is not a washed up veteran, a former starter looking for a cushy backup job like Charlie Batch or Bryron Leftwich. This is not Landry Jones who is too nice and meek, where is his drive and ambition?

I want my backup QB to be (A) a young prospect, drafted in rounds 3 or 4 with actual talent, and (B) to actually have some balls, some swagger, some damn confidence! Now whether Rudolph has the arm talent to actually become our next franchise QB, well, will start to learn that pretty quickly when the preseason games start. I do know that I am fairly confident that this kid has the mental makeup, the character and the self confidence in spades.

And for those that dismiss the notion that players, starters need motivation or need to be inspired, look to last season as an example.

Everyone said that the WR corps were set. With Brown, Bryant returning, Coates, Rogers, why the hell did the Steelers need to draft a WR in round 2? That pick was unnecessary. What a waste of resources, blah, blah, blah.

Those WRs showed their immaturity, they took to social media proclaiming that JuJu was drafted to take this WRs job. Many pundits in the media thought the pick was asinine, how would JuJu even see the field? Wouldn't he be deactivated each game? Funny, Coates is traded, Bryant and Rogers play like shit and JuJu gets on the field and gobbles up snaps and never gives Rogers a chance to catch up until late in the year. Bryant and Rogers did start to play better towards the end of the year but only after their pride took a hit and they had to learn how to put hard work in again. They got complacent, they were guilty of reading their press clippings and thinking that they had arrived, that all they had to do was show up and the other team would be quaking in their boots. But a JuJu, a young, hungry, ambitious rookie was able to slap these idiots up side the head and prove to them that the NFL really does stand for Not For Long.

For those that think, well Ben is a great player, sure, but he seems to have a problem putting together a complete season. Either he starts off strong and then peters out, or he starts out slow and then plays great at the end pushing for the playoffs. I remember one season where he was completing 73% of his passes at the halfway point and then it all just fell off to merely good levels. He was having an MVP season and then it just all unraveled. This past season, we start off slowly and then get hot at the end. But it is those slow starts that are killing us in terms of getting the first seed, of playing all of our playoff games at home.

Sorry, but if I am the Steelers, if I am Tomlin I make Rudolph the #2 QB. What's that Ben, you want to take a day off of practice this week (like he has been doing the past couple seasons like clockwork), sure go right ahead, Mason will enjoy getting the extra snaps in practice. You really think Ben will be as nonchalant about taking extra days off in practice this year with Rudolph as the #2 QB? You think that if Rudolph were the #2 QB and Ben has another game where he throws 5 INTs, that Tomlin wouldn't yank Ben after the 4th INT and give Rudolph a chance in relief?

This is not a matter of two dogs one bone as Tomlin had with Sanders and Brown, but having Rudolph as the #2, having Ben out of his comfort zone, forcing Ben to put in the full work in practice will make a difference. Maybe we don't start out the season slow, maybe we don't lose that game or two that costs us a chance for that first overall seed.

This needed to happen (the drafting of Rudolph) and unfortunately, this is exactly what they needed to do with Bell. Bell is going to wait until days before the season starts, he waited until September to sign his franchise tender and will do the same this year. But, if they had drafted a RB high, 1st or 2nd round, Bell would not have waited to sign that tender, he would have signed it immediately and been in camp quicker. Why? Because Bell wouldn't know for certain if the Steelers would rescind the tag. And with a high round draft pick, a rookie RB what guarantee is there that he will get the snaps that he is accustomed to? Maybe the Steelers decide to go with a two back attack, like NO has with Ingram and Kamara, or the Falcons have with Coleman and Freeman. If they did that, if Bell had less carries, less catches, then he does not put up that stellar production heading into free agency. So, you sign the tender quick and you get in camp to fend off that rookie RB from getting too comfortable. Ben and Bell had all the power because the Steelers had no real prospects behind them, those players can be smug and cocky and do and say anything they want with no fear or repercussions.

If the Steelers want to extend Ben it certainly is not going to be some huge number. If Ben thinks he is going to get some $25-30 million per year extension he is crazy. The Steelers now have leverage, they can say, hey Ben, this is the money and the years we are offering, if you don't care for it, well, good luck to you we are moving forward with Rudolph. The drafting of Rudolph allows the Steelers to lowball Ben and give themselves more money to build the team elsewhere, defense, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 1:15 pm 
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You lost me, Scunge.

Ben will get a big extension, his play has been damn good the past few years-- it's our standards that are fucked up, Ben's been a really good soldier for that decade, and has had to put up with stuff other marquee QBs never do-- including a horrendous playcaller OC who was brought in to dominate him AND having to play a certain style not conducive to a QB's rhythm so that the defense can be protected and games can be kept close.

Every time they let Ben's genie out of the bottle, he tears shit up. Just in the last year, Baltimore, Jacksonville after the scared first 25 minutes, Indy second half, GB, KC, even BE at times... Then they get scared or fear that they've ignored the run or want to take the air out of the ball and they pound the rock for a couple of useless downs and then ask Ben to make a perfect throw on 3rd down to keep the drive alive.

We should be BEGGING Ben to remain for as many years as he's got left and IMPLORING the powers that be to build this offense around Ben playing aggressive, rhythmic football, accept the mistakes, use the run as a complementary tool. In other words, kill several birds with one stone:
A. reduce the dependency on a single RB, because he'll soon be gone or could be injured at any time
B. increase the efficiency of the run game and the offense overall by not being so tied to running the ball mindset
C. get the F out of Ben's way and let him be the QB he's paid to be

Draft and sign FA primarily to make a defense that has and uses depth to remain fresh if the offense scores quickly. Scheme on defense to prevent chunk plays or to at least take the ball away. Play for more possessions. Use every one of those possessions to score, until the game is inarguably out of hand and then hand it to Connor-Samuels-Franklin-Ridley and your top 5 NFL OL.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 2:16 pm 
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I read what you said Scunge and I have to admit I want to believe what you stated. It is SBI for Ben not to play shitty and not remain complacent. That said, I am in wait and see mode. Rudolph has done nothing at the NFL level. Rudolph hasn't even practiced with veterans yet. Before I go crowning Rudolph I have to see him produce like you're saying he's capable (potentially) of. Part of me hopes what you say is true while the skeptic believes it's far too soon [IMHO] to make any such predictions.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 3:11 pm 
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I personally hope we find out that Rudolph is fantastic... about 5 years and 2-3 Lombardis from now.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 4:35 pm 
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Me as well B2B. I hope he's the steal of the decade at QB. Carries that chip his entire career as he was passed over by everyone in the first and second rounds of the 2018 draft. 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 8:38 pm 
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I am just pragmatic about Ben, much like 955876. I have loved him as a QB but I can also see that he has not been quite the same player as he was earlier in his career.

He has become more prone to give up INTs or fumbles in crucial situations, to make increasingly bone-headed decisions more and more. I know many want to blame Haley for all of that, me, I am not totally going to blame Haley for some of Ben's bad play.

I have seen games the past couple years where Ben has such myopic tunnel vision that he ignores a wide open Jesse James for a 25 yard play and instead throws/forces it to Brown for... an 8 yard gain.

So, yeah, Ben has his guy now, Fitchner, there is no Haley, no scapegoat to be found. It will be curious though if the offense has issues this year, if they are running plays that Ben favors, that he totally approves of and they still struggle? In the redzone, in scoring TDs, more points, well who is to blame then? Do you just fire Fitchner? At what point does Ben not start to shoulder some of the blame?

I would not extend Ben, would not give him that big extension until after this season where he proves it to me. Prove to me you are THAT damn good. Show me an MVP season. You have arguably the best talent around you in the NFL, having an MVP performance, throwing for 5,000 yards and 50 TDs should be able to be done easily.

But, if you merely have 4,000 yards passing and throw for 30 TDs? If you go one and done in the playoffs again? In this offense? With this talent? That is like having an Andy Dalton, no need to over pay for that type of production. Sorry, but I would really have to pause and reconsider giving you a big extension.

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