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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 1:15 pm 
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You lost me, Scunge.

Ben will get a big extension, his play has been damn good the past few years-- it's our standards that are fucked up, Ben's been a really good soldier for that decade, and has had to put up with stuff other marquee QBs never do-- including a horrendous playcaller OC who was brought in to dominate him AND having to play a certain style not conducive to a QB's rhythm so that the defense can be protected and games can be kept close.

Every time they let Ben's genie out of the bottle, he tears shit up. Just in the last year, Baltimore, Jacksonville after the scared first 25 minutes, Indy second half, GB, KC, even BE at times... Then they get scared or fear that they've ignored the run or want to take the air out of the ball and they pound the rock for a couple of useless downs and then ask Ben to make a perfect throw on 3rd down to keep the drive alive.

We should be BEGGING Ben to remain for as many years as he's got left and IMPLORING the powers that be to build this offense around Ben playing aggressive, rhythmic football, accept the mistakes, use the run as a complementary tool. In other words, kill several birds with one stone:
A. reduce the dependency on a single RB, because he'll soon be gone or could be injured at any time
B. increase the efficiency of the run game and the offense overall by not being so tied to running the ball mindset
C. get the F out of Ben's way and let him be the QB he's paid to be

Draft and sign FA primarily to make a defense that has and uses depth to remain fresh if the offense scores quickly. Scheme on defense to prevent chunk plays or to at least take the ball away. Play for more possessions. Use every one of those possessions to score, until the game is inarguably out of hand and then hand it to Connor-Samuels-Franklin-Ridley and your top 5 NFL OL.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 2:16 pm 
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I read what you said Scunge and I have to admit I want to believe what you stated. It is SBI for Ben not to play shitty and not remain complacent. That said, I am in wait and see mode. Rudolph has done nothing at the NFL level. Rudolph hasn't even practiced with veterans yet. Before I go crowning Rudolph I have to see him produce like you're saying he's capable (potentially) of. Part of me hopes what you say is true while the skeptic believes it's far too soon [IMHO] to make any such predictions.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 3:11 pm 
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I personally hope we find out that Rudolph is fantastic... about 5 years and 2-3 Lombardis from now.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 4:35 pm 
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Me as well B2B. I hope he's the steal of the decade at QB. Carries that chip his entire career as he was passed over by everyone in the first and second rounds of the 2018 draft. 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 8:38 pm 
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I am just pragmatic about Ben, much like 955876. I have loved him as a QB but I can also see that he has not been quite the same player as he was earlier in his career.

He has become more prone to give up INTs or fumbles in crucial situations, to make increasingly bone-headed decisions more and more. I know many want to blame Haley for all of that, me, I am not totally going to blame Haley for some of Ben's bad play.

I have seen games the past couple years where Ben has such myopic tunnel vision that he ignores a wide open Jesse James for a 25 yard play and instead throws/forces it to Brown for... an 8 yard gain.

So, yeah, Ben has his guy now, Fitchner, there is no Haley, no scapegoat to be found. It will be curious though if the offense has issues this year, if they are running plays that Ben favors, that he totally approves of and they still struggle? In the redzone, in scoring TDs, more points, well who is to blame then? Do you just fire Fitchner? At what point does Ben not start to shoulder some of the blame?

I would not extend Ben, would not give him that big extension until after this season where he proves it to me. Prove to me you are THAT damn good. Show me an MVP season. You have arguably the best talent around you in the NFL, having an MVP performance, throwing for 5,000 yards and 50 TDs should be able to be done easily.

But, if you merely have 4,000 yards passing and throw for 30 TDs? If you go one and done in the playoffs again? In this offense? With this talent? That is like having an Andy Dalton, no need to over pay for that type of production. Sorry, but I would really have to pause and reconsider giving you a big extension.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:52 pm 
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IF they let it rip and he is underwhelming, then I'm with you.

That's not going to happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:57 pm 
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It could or could not happen, who is to say?

But, I think we can all agree, isn't it nice that the Steelers at least have given themselves options?

Say worst case scenario, Ben and the offense struggle this year, nobody can quite place a finger as to why but the result is another one and done exit from the playoffs.

They watch Leveon Bell leave for free agency. So, they will be breaking in a new rookie RB for 2019. They decide to part ways with Ramon Foster, they feel BJ Finney is ready to slide in to that LG spot. Marcus Gilbert is entering the last year of his contract, his play was again uneven and he is likely playing his last year with the team.

If TE Vance McDonald really struggles in 2018, then is he back for 2019? There are club options in the contract that he signed with the 49ers which we inherited. If the Steelers keep him his salary is now $5.5 million for 2019. That would be perfectly fine if he really emerges as a difference maker but if he misses more time and fails to capitalize then I can easily see him being cut. They would probably give Jesse James a 2nd contract and look to the draft for a TE.

So, now some may say hey why are you so gloomy and doomy? I am not but what I just typed above could very well happen. Would it really be a wise decision to give Ben a contract extension paying him $25 or more per year when the offense is having a mini-rebuild? Within the next year or two you are looking at potentially having to replace your RB, TE, LG and RT. All of those new pieces and you are going to give an extension to a QB who will be 37-38? Who is playing like Andy Dalton? Does that make any sense?

Or does it make sense to move on from Ben after 2019? In 2020 Mason Rudolph's cap number is $893,000, in 2021 it is $984,000. Sure, maybe Rudolph's ceiling is that he is another Andy Dalton but at least the team would be paying peanuts for him.

With Ben? His cap number this year and next is $23 million. Any extension that they give him would provide relief for the short term maybe, but would hamstring you later. I say maybe provide you short term relief because I could have sworn that I read that Ben had performance escalators in his contract for the last two years, 2018-2019. Something like he can earn an additional $9 million? So, you may think you are getting some relief by giving Ben an extension to lower his cap hit but then he meets those performance escalators and you watch his cap hit go right back up.

It is tricky. If Ben underperforms and the Steelers know they have a mini-rebuild happening on offense, does it make sense to continue having a QB with such a high cap hit? Having Rudolph and that less than $1 million cap hit for 2020-2021 is mighty enticing when you are trying to build your team. Even if they have to give him a new contract in 2022, assuming he is their man and next franchise QB, that first year cap hit can still be relatively low, probably $12-14 million for 2022. So, from 2020-2022, Rudolph at QB would cost you all of $14-15 million for those 3 years. Ben? If he really wants to play 5 years, we might be looking at $75 million for those 3 years.

So, what is better for 2020-2022? Ben consuming $75 million to play QB at age 38, 39 and 40. Or Rudolph consuming only $15 million to play QB and the team having an additional $60 million to spend on defense? Rudolph and perhaps 1 or 2 prized free agent defensive players signed with that $60 million. Which would be better? Which is more realistic?

Keeping it real. Ben may say he wants to play another 5 years and I get that. But something that I think he does not get and that many fans do not get, is that players have finite, limited time in the NFL while coaches and general managers have careers. When Ben hangs it up, Tomlin is still going to be coaching. When Ben hangs it up, Fitchner is still going to be coaching. When Ben hangs it up, Colbert is still going to be the general manager. And most of these gentlemen will probably continue to coach and GM well into their 60-70s, this is what they are, this is what they do.

Ultimately, they are going to do what is in the best interest of the team. The Pittsburgh Steelers just don't cease to exist because a single player decides to retire. Life moves on.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:07 am 
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This was Jeremy Fowler's interpretation of the Ben's comments as well as Ben "elevating others" as he's always done since he first took the field in 2004.

Quote:
PITTSBURGH -- Ben Roethlisberger's recent radio comment about quarterback Mason Rudolph and the Pittsburgh Steelers' draft wasn't the most pertinent thing he said about the team.

Not as it pertains to the product on the field, at least.

His description of wide receiver Martavis Bryant -- and what his trade to the Oakland Raiders means -- brings the 2018 offense into focus more than anything else.

"I think he helped all of us -- he helped Antonio [Brown]," Roethlisberger told 93.7 The Fan on May 4. "He controlled safeties and made some big plays for us."

Roethlisberger remains one of the game's top quarterbacks because he gives the Steelers a chance in every game and he can win with various supporting casts. Many receivers have had success in Pittsburgh, and it's no coincidence they've caught passes from the same player. This might explain why Roethlisberger questioned the Steelers’ drafting of Rudolph with the 76th overall pick after the veteran QB announced his plans to play three to five more years.

Without Bryant, Roethlisberger will be tasked with finding yards for several role players. The Steelers can build off Vance McDonald's 10-catch playoff performance against Jacksonville. Jesse James must be a safety valve over the middle. Free agent Eli Rogers likely will be back when healthy. Darrius Heyward-Bey is a reliable veteran.

And don't be surprised if Roethlisberger utilizes Justin Hunter more. The two showed some chemistry in training camp. He's no Bryant, but he is lanky, fast and an excellent leaper. Roethlisberger can work with that skill set.

http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-ste ... r-steelers


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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 12:40 pm 
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Fowler and Ben are delusional about Bryant's impact on this team last season. Was Ben talking about Bryant from 2014-2015? That was such a long time ago. The player we had last year averaged 12 yards a catch. I really did not see teams fear Bryant last season. Honestly, what Ben thinks about his WRs at times makes me scratch my head. Anybody remember when Ben was swearing up and down that Eli Rogers was the best slot WR that he ever played with? Really Ben? Rogers is better than Cotchery and his 10 TD season? Rogers is better than what JuJu did last season? Ben you need to stop whatever you are smoking and go outside and get some fresh air, you are not thinking clearly.

James Washington is going to come in and put up numbers, as a rookie, that shits all over what Bryant did last season. He makes not having Bryant a non-issue, and actually upgrades the position.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben says he wants to play 3-5 more years
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 5:57 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
Fowler and Ben are delusional about Bryant's impact on this team last season. Was Ben talking about Bryant from 2014-2015? That was such a long time ago. The player we had last year averaged 12 yards a catch. I really did not see teams fear Bryant last season. Honestly, what Ben thinks about his WRs at times makes me scratch my head. Anybody remember when Ben was swearing up and down that Eli Rogers was the best slot WR that he ever played with? Really Ben? Rogers is better than Cotchery and his 10 TD season? Rogers is better than what JuJu did last season? Ben you need to stop whatever you are smoking and go outside and get some fresh air, you are not thinking clearly.

James Washington is going to come in and put up numbers, as a rookie, that shits all over what Bryant did last season. He makes not having Bryant a non-issue, and actually upgrades the position.

Ben has always been very loyal to his boys.

"Who's laughing now, Oline?"


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