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 Post subject: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:33 am 
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It is funny but I keep hearing and reading some nasty reviews of Mason, calling him another Landry Jones, etc. Are they really that much alike?

One big difference that I can see is that Rudolph, while never to be confused with Big Ben, is a much better athlete than Jones and can do more with his legs.

In college the past two years it was not just Rudolph throwing all of those long bombs to Washington, no, they also used RPOs, Run Pass Options. To do that you need a QB who can move some, who is comfortable running at times.

So, they might have been in the red zone but Rudolph would scan the defense and make a decision to run or pass and he had 16 rushing TDs the past two years, 10 last season alone. Landry Jones can't do that. I have seen Jones trip over his own feet, he has no ability to be a threat to run with the football, to run RPOs with success. Rudolph even had 3 catches for 53 yards when they did RB option passes.

I see NFL offenses changing, and you look at the talent we have on offense, and with a new OC in Fitchner, and with RPOs all the rage now with what Philly did last season and in particular with Nick Foles, it makes it all the more interesting to me to see what Rudolph can do in the NFL. I don't see Landry Jones and Mason alike in any way whatsoever. Landry Jones has -19 yards rushing for his NFL career. In college he had -375 yard rushing!!

Jones is truly a pocket QB while Rudolph can do a bit more than that, has more potential because of his legs. Mayock may have written of Mason that he has 'minimal escapability' but Landry Jones has no escapability.

Man, the preseason games are going to be such a long wait, I wish they were playing next week!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:47 am 
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Firstly, there's a bit of a difference between saying that Jones is a veteran backup with some proven spot-starting success and thus should likely be the backup for a playoff team and saying he's "better than Rudolph," which I'm pretty sure I didn't see anybody type in any thread. But...

When Laundry was at Oklahoma, they used a very similar offense, featuring RPO's as well. It was a mostly zone-read based system where he only ever really had to read half the field. In fact, pretty much every Big 12 school uses something very similar at this point. It's a big reason why QB's from that league have such a MASSIVE bust percentage. Laundry is, in fact, one of the more successful NFL QBs from the recent Big 12.

Anomalies happen, certainly (winning a Super Bowl with Nick Foles being far more likely an anomaly than some sort of tinfoil hatted emerging trend), and he's a Steeler now, so I'm rooting for him, but he's a Big 12 QB making what is historically a very difficult transition to the NFL. Hope it works out.


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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:25 am 
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They are very different players. Mason turned the ball over way less than Landry. His ypa was 10.35 his last 2 years. Landry was 7.7.

Mason can push the ball down the field much more and be pretty accurate doing it. As you said he also has better feet. He pretty much has the same 40 time as Baker Mayfield.

He also goes to his 2nd and 3rd reads more than you think. I like how he spreads the ball around. Combine that with very high football smarts and we are really in business.

That's why he was my favorite QB of this draft.


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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:25 am 
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Scunge wrote:
It is funny but I keep hearing and reading some nasty reviews of Mason, calling him another Landry Jones, etc. Are they really that much alike?

One big difference that I can see is that Rudolph, while never to be confused with Big Ben, is a much better athlete than Jones and can do more with his legs.

In college the past two years it was not just Rudolph throwing all of those long bombs to Washington, no, they also used RPOs, Run Pass Options. To do that you need a QB who can move some, who is comfortable running at times.

So, they might have been in the red zone but Rudolph would scan the defense and make a decision to run or pass and he had 16 rushing TDs the past two years, 10 last season alone. Landry Jones can't do that. I have seen Jones trip over his own feet, he has no ability to be a threat to run with the football, to run RPOs with success. Rudolph even had 3 catches for 53 yards when they did RB option passes.

I see NFL offenses changing, and you look at the talent we have on offense, and with a new OC in Fitchner, and with RPOs all the rage now with what Philly did last season and in particular with Nick Foles, it makes it all the more interesting to me to see what Rudolph can do in the NFL. I don't see Landry Jones and Mason alike in any way whatsoever. Landry Jones has -19 yards rushing for his NFL career. In college he had -375 yard rushing!!

Jones is truly a pocket QB while Rudolph can do a bit more than that, has more potential because of his legs. Mayock may have written of Mason that he has 'minimal escapability' but Landry Jones has no escapability.

Man, the preseason games are going to be such a long wait, I wish they were playing next week!!!


If Jones is a pocket QB then he inherently sucks at his job. He has literally NO pocket awareness or where defenders are rushing from. This is why he'll be out of the league in 2 yrs


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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:35 am 
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Different players but similar situation. Both are uber-talented (from a physical traits perspective) “system” guys that have a lot to prove at the next level. Both were excellent values where picked. QB is such an important piece of any championship puzzle that when you have an aging or declining starter you always make a value pick at that position on the chance that you catch lightning in a bottle. Landry has proven himself capable but not franchise caliber. Fingers crossed for Mason.

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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:37 am 
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As I said before the draft, some variation on:

Mason Rudolph
Floor: Landry Jones
Midpoint: Andy Dalton
Ceiling: Kirk Cousins

I really don't think he's as good as Cousins, though, and I think a large portion of Rudolph's success throwing deep was because his receivers were elite at ball tracking/adjustment.

I think Andy Dalton is right about where Rudolph comes out. That's not terrible, and if he's a little better than Dalton in big games, that would be pretty good. Not elite, but solid.

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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:40 am 
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And, Scunge... what I meant about comparing Rudolph and Landry is: taken in roughly the same point of the draft, as a value buy QB... yet, we viewed one as a wasted pick, backup at best and the other as the future of the franchise. It's weird to me. I personally think Rudolph is a better prospect but there isn't THAT much difference between their likelihood of working out.

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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:42 am 
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If the Steelers have their way, Laundry will make a smooth transition from being Ben's backup to being his successor's backup, and have a 15 year career with the team. They're satisfied, obviously, and if you look at it, his winning percentage (and he's started a couple of important games) is right around where Batch and Leftwich were in their tenures here. When you consider the risk-averse nature of the team, it's hard not to foresee this outcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:44 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
And, Scunge... what I meant about comparing Rudolph and Landry is: taken in roughly the same point of the draft, as a value buy QB... yet, we viewed one as a wasted pick, backup at best and the other as the future of the franchise. It's weird to me. I personally think Rudolph is a better prospect but there isn't THAT much difference between their likelihood of working out.

Agreed. For most, it’s really about timing. For others, it’s about a perception that Landry didn’t have the “it” factor while Mason does.

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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:46 am 
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I'll say this, Ice... if the Browns offer a draft pick for Landry, I'm taking the deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:48 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
I'll say this, Ice... if the Browns offer a draft pick for Landry, I'm taking the deal.


I honestly thought the Bungles might have during the draft, considering the way their situation has played out. Never know if they did and the Steelers didn't like the offer.


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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:50 am 
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Ice wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
I'll say this, Ice... if the Browns offer a draft pick for Landry, I'm taking the deal.


I honestly thought the Bungles might have during the draft, considering the way their situation has played out. Never know if they did and the Steelers didn't like the offer.

Just cannot see any trade like that in the division.

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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:51 am 
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I think the Steelers would love to play a game vs Landry when it counts.

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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:30 am 
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Landry Jones was a back up prospect when he was drafted. The team knew it, and so did Landry. Landry also does what he is told. I've said this a thousand times. Backups are insurance. He plays it safe because he's told to play it safe. He is a very good corporate yes man that doesn't make waves and puts his head down and does what he's told. That means don't risk injuring yourself unless you absofuckingloutely have to, for a risk averse team.

College stats mean little in comparing a 4 year player to a drafted rookie, imo. Teams shape and mold players to fit their system and philosophy. Landry isn't expected to light it up and run for 35 yards/ pass for 300 4 td's every game. He's a game manager that has had success in that role, and that's all he was drafted for.

Whether or not rudolph has "it" remains to be seen. Apparently Fitchner and co seem to think so. But I also remember him praising dennis dixon. And we all know how that turned out.

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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 11:34 am 
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Landry Jones was Charlie Checkdown in college while Rudolph was the best deep ball thrower in the NCAA. They played very different games.

The similarity is neither has a rocket arm, they played shit for competition vs Big 12 garbage defenses, and didn’t take many snaps under center.


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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 11:41 am 
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SP wrote:
Landry Jones was Charlie Checkdown in college while Rudolph was the best deep ball thrower in the NCAA. They played very different games.

The similarity is neither has a rocket arm, they played shit for competition vs Big 12 garbage defenses, and didn’t take many snaps under center.

bingo

which is why I say Andy Dalton is the best comp.

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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:09 pm 
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I'm much more concerned with elusiveness than the ability to run. The ability to elude and extend plays (eyes downfield) is something I like in a qb.

I was wrong to call Rudolph statuesque in his draft thread. Thanks for the info, everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:13 pm 
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SP wrote:
Landry Jones was Charlie Checkdown in college while Rudolph was the best deep ball thrower in the NCAA. They played very different games.

The similarity is neither has a rocket arm, they played shit for competition vs Big 12 garbage defenses, and didn’t take many snaps under center.


I'll take this x1000, with especial attention paid to the "shit for competition vs Big 12 garbage defenses" part. At least we didn't spend the number one overall on a similarly stat-inflated player.


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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:31 pm 
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SP wrote:
Landry Jones was Charlie Checkdown in college while Rudolph was the best deep ball thrower in the NCAA. They played very different games.

The similarity is neither has a rocket arm, they played shit for competition vs Big 12 garbage defenses, and didn’t take many snaps under center.
landry was a checkdown machine in college, but he did complete a decent number of downfield lobs. What I see from Rudolph that I didn’t see any of from Landry is an intermediate pass game. Not sure if Landry had a completion between 0 and 20 yards in college, basically anywhere that nfl qbs throw the ball.


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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:02 pm 
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I echo many sentiments that there is a difference between where Mason was drafted and where Dobbs and Landry were drafted.

Those two QBs taken in the 4th round were backups, the Steelers knew it and the players that were drafted knew it.

Rudolph it is a different story. What separates Walter Andrew Brister the 3rd, Kordell Stewart, Neil O'Donnell and Mason Rudolph?

They were all taken within a 16 pick area, picks 60-76. They were all taken with the idea that they were potential starting QBs not just backups.

I also agree that Rudolph was way more successful in college. If I remember right Landry threw 52 INTs in 53 games? That one to one ratio is pretty bad. Rudolph? He threw 26 INTs in 42 games, that is way better. In looking over his production Mason just got better and better, improved his TDs, accuracy, yards per attempt, etc.

I listened to an interview with James Washington today and he said that Mason's arm has gotten stronger the past couple years. It was a cool interview, he talked of how they are good friends off the field, got together on Sundays and grilled a lot, but they don't let Mason touch the grill. I guess that is one big weakness of Rudolph that Mel Kiper Jr must have missed.

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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:14 pm 
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I input all the Rudolph data into my QB Ceiling Analyzer by Ronco.

According to my QBCA, Rudolph’s floor is Johnny Unitas and his ceiling is Joe Montana.

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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:34 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
I input all the Rudolph data into my QB Ceiling Analyzer by Ronco.

According to my QBCA, Rudolph’s floor is Johnny Unitas and his ceiling is Joe Montana.

Does Andy Dalton fall somewhere in that bracket? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:37 pm 
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This is a great read on Aaron Rodgers and how changing his mechanics after being drafted by the packers improved his passing.

http://www.stack.com/a/aaron-rodgers-offers-rare-insight-into-the-mechanics-that-make-nfls-best-passer


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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:43 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
What separates Walter Andrew Brister the 3rd, Kordell Stewart, Neil O'Donnell and Mason Rudolph?


Bubby really liked beer and had a very emotional mom, also enjoyed soul-crushing interceptions.

Neil was possibly the missing link to the Neanderthal people, very accurate, except when given the chance to pass the ball to Larry Brown.

Kordell had that thing on his face, excellent taste in motor vehicles, 4.3 speed and an absolute cannon for an arm, and despite his coach's best efforts (including his only career public display of affection), was not a pocket passer.

Not sure where Rudolph will fit on that continuum yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Differences between Landry Jones and Mason Rudolph...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 4:27 pm 
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Scunge-- I'm not disputing that Rudolph is a "potential" starting QB. In fact, I would be a little disappointed if he could not start at some point. But a lot of stars would have to align with 2/3 of the starting QBs in the league in order for them to be real SB contenders.

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