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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:15 am 
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Flanker wrote:
Not that he is an ILB but Tegray Scales was one of the more impressive linebackers I saw play last year and he hasn't been drafted yet... I don't understand but I guess that's why I'm not paid to evaluate players.

Stiff as can be and not good in coverage. Also on the slow side. As a downhill, college game run defender, he was very good.

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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:18 am 
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ChippedHamSandwich wrote:
Serious question, does anyone believe that a little weight and some coaching that Marcus Allen could turn into their ILB of the future?

Dude loves to hit, lives for it and nobody wants him covering 25 yards downfield, make him play at the LOS

Mack has to carry the TE and make plays on the football in deep middle zone. He also has to get off or defeat blocks from OGs. If one believes Allen can do that, then, yes, he could play ILB. It's possible both Allen and Edmunds will grow into Ryan Shazier sized players... both are young (21).

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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:19 am 
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Flanker wrote:
Jason Cabinda is the perfect old school type MLB and a real thumper but we already have that in Williams. I'm somewhat surprised he will be a UDFA... that position/skillset is dying in todays league.

Thumpers are passé, because the Tom Brady's and Sean McVays of the world can manipulate them into 1-on-1 matchups in the passing game on any down. Hybrid SS/LB guys like Deion Jones are all the rage now, and the draft reflects those two developments.

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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 6:57 pm 
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cop1211 wrote:
That’s why I kind of give a raised eyebrow to everyone saying it’s was the plan all along to draft safeties as linebackers due to a new age defense.
My money is that if they could have drafted Evans a traditional ILB that he would have been the pick.

But yet none were worthy of trading up to get like Terrell's younger brother Trumaine who fell to the bills at 16; Colbert said it, Not willing to mortgage the future on one draft spot. ILB position this draft was very light. Safety, DLine and corner were all heavy. Too bad they didn't need any of those positions, right.


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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:15 am 
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Well, there are two camps apparently.

Camp A

Some will listen to the heresy by Dulac, saying that the Steelers were trying to trade up to get Evans and when that plan fell through then they went to Plan B and then reached for Edmunds at safety and then double dipped in panic mode with Marcus Allen. That sounds so far fetched to me.

Camp B

The Steelers, knowing that the issues on defense were not just related to Ryan Shazier's absence, decide to go all in on transforming their defense, their sub package defense.

Carnell Lake amicably leaves and Bradley is hired to be the new secondary coach.
John Mitchell is relieved of his defensive line coach duties and Karl Dunbar is hired to be the new D-line coach.

They first sign ILB Jon Bostic, who has experience playing inside in both 3-4 and 4-3 defenses, who is a quality athlete, 4.61 40, 6.99 3 cone. Then then proceed to cut Mike Mitchell, Robert Golden and Willie Gay before the draft. True Gay was a CB but he played a lot last season as a nickel safety, dime linebacker, etc. They cut 3 players that had combined for some 1,150 snaps on defense last season.

The Steelers cut one of their starting safeties in Mike Mitchell, their 3rd safety in Robert Golden and their long time vet swiss army knife in Gay. That to me clearly showed a plan, a commitment to transform the defense.

They then sign two safeties, Morgan Burnett and Nat Berhe. Morgan is capable of playing FS, SS and nickel linebacker, but he is up in age now, 29 years old, starting his 9th season. Berhe is not really an option to play defense, strictly a special teams player, he will replace Golden in that important up back role for punts, etc.

So, Morgan can be a starter and easily cancels out Mitchell, but how do they replace the almost 500 snaps that Golden and Gay had on defense?

They were going to draft a safety in this draft and probably two, the moves they made before the draft, the players that they cut clearly show this. The pro day visits, the interest in most all of the safeties clearly show this. Then in the draft they select Edmunds who has size, speed and athletic ability but more importantly, is a vocal leader, a team leader, and is said to be more like Burnett, a player who is football smart and can digest different assignments and be used in multiple roles.

Then they pick Marcus Allen, another player who can be used in nickel and dime packages but does not have that special athleticism of Edmunds.

Sorry, but I am firmly in Camp B, the Steelers were transforming their defense this offseason before the draft. They were bringing in new coaches, jettisoning old players, signing new players like Bostic and Morgan Burnett. How anybody can just have a blind eye to all of that and then claim the big safety, new age sub package defense only happened because they couldn't trade for Evans? :roll:

I can't remember a time on defense where we had so much change. To have two new position coaches that are not indoctrinated in the old Lebeau scheme, and to get rid of two established vets like Mitchell and Gay in one offseason? There is a plan in action and it started well before the draft and before we supposedly failed to trade up for Evans.

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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:38 am 
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Scunge wrote:
Camp B

The Steelers, knowing that the issues on defense were not just related to Ryan Shazier's absence, decide to go all in on transforming their defense, their sub package defense.

Carnell Lake amicably leaves and Bradley is hired to be the new secondary coach.
John Mitchell is relieved of his defensive line coach duties and Karl Dunbar is hired to be the new D-line coach.

They first sign ILB Jon Bostic, who has experience playing inside in both 3-4 and 4-3 defenses, who is a quality athlete, 4.61 40, 6.99 3 cone. Then then proceed to cut Mike Mitchell, Robert Golden and Willie Gay before the draft. True Gay was a CB but he played a lot last season as a nickel safety, dime linebacker, etc. They cut 3 players that had combined for some 1,150 snaps on defense last season.

The Steelers cut one of their starting safeties in Mike Mitchell, their 3rd safety in Robert Golden and their long time vet swiss army knife in Gay. That to me clearly showed a plan, a commitment to transform the defense.

They then sign two safeties, Morgan Burnett and Nat Berhe. Morgan is capable of playing FS, SS and nickel linebacker, but he is up in age now, 29 years old, starting his 9th season. Berhe is not really an option to play defense, strictly a special teams player, he will replace Golden in that important up back role for punts, etc.

So, Morgan can be a starter and easily cancels out Mitchell, but how do they replace the almost 500 snaps that Golden and Gay had on defense?

They were going to draft a safety in this draft and probably two, the moves they made before the draft, the players that they cut clearly show this. The pro day visits, the interest in most all of the safeties clearly show this. Then in the draft they select Edmunds who has size, speed and athletic ability but more importantly, is a vocal leader, a team leader, and is said to be more like Burnett, a player who is football smart and can digest different assignments and be used in multiple roles.

Then they pick Marcus Allen, another player who can be used in nickel and dime packages but does not have that special athleticism of Edmunds.

There is a plan in action and it started well before the draft and before we supposedly failed to trade up for Evans.
I'll buy that for a dollar.

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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 9:23 am 
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They had to do something Scunge. They can't stop the Patriots..., Ever! They have to defend the Brady ran Patriot offense. They about beat the Patriots last season for the 1st time in..., Well.... forever? Then comes along the Blake Bortles offense and destroyed that defense. Twice! There had to be changes if they plan to win anymore than one postseason game. Why it's taken them so long to actually implement the change is beyond explanation. I'll try. Old game plans die hard? Too ingrained in the 'We do what we do' MO? All I can say is it's about fucking time they change with the times and join the modern NFL. That said, I think the defense is closer to being fully rebuilt already. Of course it's a little too early to jump to that conclusion. I'll just say for football talk reasons they're well on their way to becoming a much better modern NFL defense than what they have been. JMO

The offense? I know we talk about how great they're going to be every year and how we're essentially disappointed every year. I really believe that this season the offense will really hit their stride (staying healthy) and blow up the NFL. The loss of Bryant is substantial, the loss of Hubbard is also substantial; yes they both brought something that essentially no other WR or OT on the roster had. Blazing straight line speed [Bryant] taking the top off defenses. The ability to swing OT/TE on the OLine and play well into the second level of defenses [Hubbard]. That said, I think the Steelers are going to be a more finesse offense than we've seen. The Washington and Samuels drafting will help this in the long run. Both young rookie players bring a skill [or 5] to the table and just about automatically make this offense even more dangerous. The rich getting richer? I'll just say there's much more confidence in the offense going into this season. The new coordinator over the old one? Addition by subtraction?


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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 9:55 am 
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cop1211 wrote:
That’s why I kind of give a raised eyebrow to everyone saying it’s was the plan all along to draft safeties as linebackers due to a new age defense.
My money is that if they could have drafted Evans a traditional ILB that he would have been the pick.


Exactly. It's complete b.s. They would have sprinted to the podium for Evans if he was available at 28, instead they stayed put and reached for a guy who wasn't even that good a player in college and are somehow expecting him to be a great player in the pros.

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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 10:23 am 
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I have gone over and rewatched some games and I think last season on defense things sort of slowly unraveled.

I loved the plan of using our D-line more as pass rushers, Cam in particular had a great season. I think the plan was to get Hargrave and Tuitt more involved but I think injuries, and the fact that they were playing with injuries sort of curtailed those plans.

What was shocking to me as the season wore on was the play of our defensive backs beyond our starters. Yeah, Mitchell was really, really bad but when you are in sub package defense and you have 6 and even 7 defensive backs on the field, well that was really troubling. Supposedly they used 6 or more defensive backs, 25% of the time, and that came in critical times. That key 3rd down play that sustained a drive and gave the team a TD and the lead? Probably had 7 defensive backs out there. So, who were those other 3 players on the field outside of our 4 starters in the secondary?

Mike Hilton, Robert Golden, Willie Gay, JJ Wilcox, Coty Sensabaugh, Cam Sutton. That is well over 1,500 combined snaps from those players.

Yeah, Mike Hilton, he had 577 snaps, played 59% of the snaps. To me he was a revelation, a nickel back who was great against the run, great as a blitzer and held his own in coverage, was not tested that much but that is a good thing. He was tighter in coverage, made it more difficult to throw that easy completion. You subtract Hilton's snaps and you are still left with 1,000 snaps where teams are targeting Golden, Gay, Wilcox, etc.

When I talk about the Steelers transforming this defense, this is the one area where it had to happen. If Shazier had not gotten injured, this defense still had major issues with putting players like Golden and Gay out there, with having Mike Mitchell as a starting safety. Simply drafting an Evans or LVE would not have fixed the real issues troubling this defense. Not that replacing Shazier isn't a big issue, it most certainly is but we had 3 players out there on the field that did not belong, that were being targeted and exploited. That was going to continue to be a resource for teams to use against us.

So, having Edmunds and Burnett and Cam Sutton replacing Golden, Mitchell and Willie Gay is going to be a tremendous boost to this defense. If they can employ more man to man defense, instead of having 88/12 zone to man ratio it should be more like 60/40. They now have the athletes and body types, and more importantly the football smart type of players needed to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:20 am 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
The offense? I know we talk about how great they're going to be every year and how we're essentially disappointed every year. I really believe that this season the offense will really hit their stride (staying healthy) and blow up the NFL.


It's on Ben, Fichtner, and Tomlin to make it happen.

I'm much more concerned with how the offense is playing late season than early season but it would be nice if we could come out of the gate smoking.

I'm looking for the offense to lead us to Lombardi #7. I'm looking for the D to give us a fighting chance.


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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:36 am 
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With the way our schedule is and with most of the division games happening in the first half, the offense better come out smoking.

This is not the year to come out slow and ease into it on offense. I truly believe that the new faces on offense, James Washington, Jaylin Samuels can really surprise and be difference makers because there will be very little tape on them. All of our division opponents will be facing them for the first time.

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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:09 am 
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Good points, Scunge. I don't disagree.

I'm not for easing in, but at the same time I don't want to overreact to what's happening at any given point in the RS.

Having said that... I'm still looking for Ben to be the qb of the highest scoring offense in the league and/or to win league MVP (while capturing the Lombardi)

Edit:

I will be looking for the offense to put 20 on the scoreboard in the 1st half of games starting with rs game #1


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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:44 am 
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I think expecting anything from rookies early in the season will lead to disappointment. Expect bigger things from Watt and Sutton. If any of the rookies is contributing by late October then it is a success.

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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 4:11 pm 
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If there's anything a rookie wr could likely be successful at, it's running the Martavis Bryant playbook. Deep routes, reverses, bubble screens. A rookie of Washington's caliber should be able to pick up those assignments.


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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:11 pm 
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I like this offense and think Washington will have a big impact.but liked colbert comment on the defense that they don't stop looking for help.


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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 4:52 pm 
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It is so easy for a rookie RB and a rookie WR to play well in today's NFL. But the fact of the matter is that it has always been easy for rookie WRs to come in and play well for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Mike Wallace only had to wait until his 3rd NFL game to have his first 100 yard game, 7 catches for 102 yards.

Louis Lipps didn't waste any time at all, his first NFL game he had 6 catches for 183 yards and 2 TDs.

Bryant had 14 catches for 310 yards and 6 TDs in his first 4 NFL games.

JuJu saw no targets in his first NFL game but then had 8 catches for 102 yards and 2 TDs in games 2-4.

Sorry, but the odds are great that James Washington will have 40-50 catches, average 19 yards a catch and have 8 TDs as a rookie. A year from now, just like JuJu, we will be singing his praises and nobody will think twice about Bryant.

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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 5:09 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
It is so easy for a rookie RB and a rookie WR to play well in today's NFL. But the fact of the matter is that it has always been easy for rookie WRs to come in and play well for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Mike Wallace only had to wait until his 3rd NFL game to have his first 100 yard game, 7 catches for 102 yards.

Louis Lipps didn't waste any time at all, his first NFL game he had 6 catches for 183 yards and 2 TDs.

Bryant had 14 catches for 310 yards and 6 TDs in his first 4 NFL games.

JuJu saw no targets in his first NFL game but then had 8 catches for 102 yards and 2 TDs in games 2-4.

Sorry, but the odds are great that James Washington will have 40-50 catches, average 19 yards a catch and have 8 TDs as a rookie. A year from now, just like JuJu, we will be singing his praises and nobody will think twice about Bryant.

Yep. James Washington will be the anti-Bryant. Cant wait to see him go all out on every play of the game, win contested balls and break arm tackles on a regular basis. More often than not it's about what's between a players ears and in his chest.


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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 5:12 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
It is so easy for a rookie RB and a rookie WR to play well in today's NFL. But the fact of the matter is that it has always been easy for rookie WRs to come in and play well for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Mike Wallace only had to wait until his 3rd NFL game to have his first 100 yard game, 7 catches for 102 yards.

Louis Lipps didn't waste any time at all, his first NFL game he had 6 catches for 183 yards and 2 TDs.

Bryant had 14 catches for 310 yards and 6 TDs in his first 4 NFL games.

JuJu saw no targets in his first NFL game but then had 8 catches for 102 yards and 2 TDs in games 2-4.

Sorry, but the odds are great that James Washington will have 40-50 catches, average 19 yards a catch and have 8 TDs as a rookie. A year from now, just like JuJu, we will be singing his praises and nobody will think twice about Bryant.


Exactly.


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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 8:40 pm 
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Love this kid combative nature with the ball in his hand. not Bryant speed but he has better hands.


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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 10:28 pm 
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The way Washington wins contested catches, he's likely to be an upgrade over Bryant even at his best.

Ben has NEVER really had a guy he could trust on a 50/50 ball. He's made some jaw-dropping completions into bad coverages that AB somehow came down with. I still don't understand some of those - it has to be AB not tipping his hand and waiting until the last second so the DB's don't have time to react. But otherwise AB just doesn't have the size to throw that true 50/50 ball where it's worth the risk over taking a sack or netting a few more yards on a punt.

And ESPECIALLY in the redzone. NEVER had a true guy to throw the fade to.

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 Post subject: Re: ILB
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 11:34 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
The way Washington wins contested catches, he's likely to be an upgrade over Bryant even at his best.

Ben has NEVER really had a guy he could trust on a 50/50 ball. He's made some jaw-dropping completions into bad coverages that AB somehow came down with. I still don't understand some of those - it has to be AB not tipping his hand and waiting until the last second so the DB's don't have time to react. But otherwise AB just doesn't have the size to throw that true 50/50 ball where it's worth the risk over taking a sack or netting a few more yards on a punt.

And ESPECIALLY in the redzone. NEVER had a true guy to throw the fade to.

And with AB mentoring him, he'll get even better at it than he was in college.


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