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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:51 pm 
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Ice wrote:
I'm not sure Conner is suited in any way to be a 3rd down back at this point.

Yeah, I pretty much disagree with every part of the above analysis by Veritas.

If somebody could clue me in as to what Conner is suited for, I'd appreciate it. I would like to warm to the kid as a football prospect, but I haven't seen anything from him since cancer that makes him more than an inspirational story.

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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:01 pm 
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I think Conner showed something early last year.

But I’m looking for Jarvion Franklin to possibly take Conner’s spot. Franklin is big and he punishes tacklers. And he has good speed and a good first cut.


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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:04 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:

This longer highlight reel gives a much better impression of who he is.



The kid has a nice body of work. I guess my question is how does a kid that has skills like that fall to the fifth? I see a lot of Levon's skills (setting up blocks, ability to run to daylight, and to press for the score) in him plus the downfield (10+ yards) receiving ability you do not see from Bell. The way he gets those defenders off balance and explodes into them when he's running the ball will get you going as a fan. Usually, guys who wear #1 are my red flag- not wrist circumference, Higg scores, or first name analysis- so if he can come in and do what he did on that tape- easily the steal of the draft.

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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:30 pm 
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I've been pretty good at identifying some of the NFL trends...

• 2-down/thumper LBs are out
• LB/S hybrids are in
• position flexibility for defenders is more important than ever
• move toward RB by committee

But I'm missing something about RBs. Ballage went in the 4th round, supposedly pumped up boards by his receiving skills, yet three guys with arguably better tape and similar size/athleticism went even later or didn't get drafted at all (Samuels in late 5th, Chris Warren III, Ryan Nall). Those guys should be coveted by NFL teams–pass game to RB is so much more important in NFL– yet they don't seem to be desirable for some reason. Samuels-Warren-Nall would be exactly the kind of RB teams like Pittsburgh-NE-Philly would covet.

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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:33 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Ice wrote:
I'm not sure Conner is suited in any way to be a 3rd down back at this point.

Yeah, I pretty much disagree with every part of the above analysis by Veritas.

If somebody could clue me in as to what Conner is suited for, I'd appreciate it. I would like to warm to the kid as a football prospect, but I haven't seen anything from him since cancer that makes him more than an inspirational story.


Full cancer recovery is at best a 2-year thing and learning the offense and not getting enough reps are factors. I think his role in this offense is the between the 20s back and a closer. That's what he's built for- if healthy

All Ben needs at this stage in his career is for the RBs to keep the defense honest and give them enough position flexibility to take advantage of cover issues in the defense. If they can do that, he can get to what he does better than just about anyone- successful play action and getting to the right matchup quickly.

With Bell there its kind of muddy but beyond him, I see that they have a mix of power, speed, versatility that can be more effective. I can see Conner's being a part of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:47 pm 
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BTW, Jalen Samuels finished as the leading receiver in the history of NC State Football... passing Torry Holt and Jerrico Cotchery.

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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:03 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
BTW, Jalen Samuels finished as the leading receiver in the history of NC State Football... passing Torry Holt and Jerrico Cotchery.


Ok that feels like you're going to ignite something by adding Cotchery to anything. But knowing that fact, IMO his touches should be on the plus side of the LOS rather than the backfield. I'm excited about this kid doing things in the offense

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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:43 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
BTW, Jalen Samuels finished as the leading receiver in the history of NC State Football... passing Torry Holt and Jerrico Cotchery.


Any info available on his locker room presence? Looking for leadership traits. Asking for a friend.

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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:45 pm 
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VeritasSteel wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
BTW, Jalen Samuels finished as the leading receiver in the history of NC State Football... passing Torry Holt and Jerrico Cotchery.


Ok that feels like you're going to ignite something by adding Cotchery to anything. But knowing that fact, IMO his touches should be on the plus side of the LOS rather than the backfield. I'm excited about this kid doing things in the offense


I’ve scrubbed his tape. I’m excited about him. I too want to know why he lasted till the 5th round?

Has anyone taken away his long runs for a more realistic YPC?

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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 3:01 pm 
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It's interesting, you've got some very successful teams using RB by committee, and you've at the same time got other successful teams either already having or more than willing to jump at the chance to get, a featured back. I'll say that maybe the reason it's difficult to read the tea leaves at RB right now is that there are two somewhat I'll opposite philosophies at work, and which one is the better depends on the team you ask.


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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 3:37 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
BTW, Jalen Samuels finished as the leading receiver in the history of NC State Football... passing Torry Holt and Jerrico Cotchery.


Any info available on his locker room presence? Looking for leadership traits. Asking for a friend.


Nothing will beat the Cotch Watch :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 3:40 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
BTW, Jalen Samuels finished as the leading receiver in the history of NC State Football... passing Torry Holt and Jerrico Cotchery.

:shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 3:41 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
I've been pretty good at identifying some of the NFL trends...

• 2-down/thumper LBs are out
• LB/S hybrids are in
• position flexibility for defenders is more important than ever
• move toward RB by committee

But I'm missing something about RBs. Ballage went in the 4th round, supposedly pumped up boards by his receiving skills, yet three guys with arguably better tape and similar size/athleticism went even later or didn't get drafted at all (Samuels in late 5th, Chris Warren III, Ryan Nall). Those guys should be coveted by NFL teams–pass game to RB is so much more important in NFL– yet they don't seem to be desirable for some reason. Samuels-Warren-Nall would be exactly the kind of RB teams like Pittsburgh-NE-Philly would covet.

And a perfect example of teams drafting (less talented players) for need even when they tout always drafting BPA. NE and Philly had a loaded backfield by the time the middle draft rounds rolled around. With Bell halfway out the door, the Steeler didn't, so they grabbed Samuels.


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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 3:44 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
BTW, Jalen Samuels finished as the leading receiver in the history of NC State Football... passing Torry Holt and Jerrico Cotchery.

:shock:



I wonder how many times a week IC wakes up in a cold sweat yelling "COOOOOTCH!!!!" at the top of his lungs...


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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 5:29 pm 
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Ice wrote:
It's interesting, you've got some very successful teams using RB by committee, and you've at the same time got other successful teams either already having or more than willing to jump at the chance to get, a featured back. I'll say that maybe the reason it's difficult to read the tea leaves at RB right now is that there are two somewhat I'll opposite philosophies at work, and which one is the better depends on the team you ask.

That one is easily answered by fans of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

When you use a featured back to the near exclusion of other guys... what happens when that featured stud gets hurt just before your playoff run?

The RB by committee has the huge advantage of mitigating injuries at RB.

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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 6:20 pm 
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True, but looking at playoff or playoff caliber teams, you had Bell, Fournette, Gurley as featured backs, you have the Vikings with an injured 1st round RB last year, you have Elliott in Dallas, Johnson in AZ, and the Giants, Seahawks and (gasp) Patriots going RB in the first this season. I'm certainly in favor of sharing the load, (like you said, most Steelers fans probably lean that way), but the reason RB trends are kind of muddy is because the featured back model is a little more in vogue than it has been in the recent past, from what I'm seeing.


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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 6:35 pm 
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I guess because everyone is about to start running the ball at these package defenses.

All the more reason to have a bigger back, though... and those four really good big backs didn't go in first two days of the draft.

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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:11 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
BarryFoster wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
BTW, Jalen Samuels finished as the leading receiver in the history of NC State Football... passing Torry Holt and Jerrico Cotchery.


Any info available on his locker room presence? Looking for leadership traits. Asking for a friend.


Nothing will beat the Cotch Watch :lol:


"Cotch Watch" was incredible, birthed one of the most hilarious nickname's ever.....

"CUMDUMPSTERTRON"


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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:23 pm 
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Steelers sign Samuels... http://www.steelers.com/news/transactio ... 2f28818d28


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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:24 pm 
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solid pick this late in he draft going to really like to see what packages they will use for him. The kid has very good hands and seems to have some good rushing skills.


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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:35 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
I guess because everyone is about to start running the ball at these package defenses.

All the more reason to have a bigger back, though... and those four really good big backs didn't go in first two days of the draft.


Gotta figure that's a motivating factor in the way backs are getting selected, but as for the bigger backs in later rounds, I'm not so sure. Could be teams looking for higher profile production? Maybe "big" to them is 220? I liked what I was able to find of Warren after you brought him up, so I'm grasping at straws a little to explain.


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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Maybe this is covered elsewhere. But can Samuels block? That seems pretty important for a FB/TE, especially if he is integral to the passing game. Also, very much a valued skill for Steeler skill players (except quarterbacks…although I think Ben threw a key block in the Seattle Superbowl win (right?)?

Not saying, just asking.


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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 2:17 pm 
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Also probably the major piece that holds rookie RB back from getting carries their first year. Was part of Conner's issue, if I recall correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:53 pm 
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Samuels didn't block a lot, because he was their leading receiver.

But, also, there is no way he is a TE/FB in the NFL.

He did okay blocking but rarely did so from the backfield, that I saw.

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 Post subject: Re: Jaylen Samuels TE/FB/WR 5th RND 165th overall
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:06 pm 
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Quote:
But if the team’s recently completed minicamp is any indication that versatility will continue in the NFL.

“They have me playing a lot of different positions,” said Samuels. “Right now they have me in the backfield, running the ball as well. Also in the slot, moving around. Playing outside receiver. Pretty much what I was doing in college..."


https://www.steelers.com/news/versatility-is-a-key-for-samuels


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