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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:57 am 
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Ice wrote:
VeritasSteel wrote:
I know that people have got their nethers bunched over this kid but in watching those highlights (which are just highlights) I saw a player that can cover by himself and have enough ball skills to high point a ball as the underneath or trail technique guy. Something we do not have on this team from the safety position. From the looks of the tape- er highlights, he played every position back there and was an effective extra LB. His tackling makes him look more like an LB, not a safety. If I had a quibble on those interceptions he didn't have the breakaway speed to get away from a QB or WR running him down.

Admittedly, I wasn't in love with the pick and it feels like an arranged marriage. But these things last when the couple learns to love each other. But let's hope he is more Catherine Howard in deeds than Aggripina. Yeah, I love history and we should all have a woman like Catherine Howard whose only crime is she didn't have sons. Terrel Edmunds crime was he wasn't picked in the second round with someone giving us four 4ths, a seven, a block of cheese and a dowry animal- preferably a cow.


Love a good allusion or two, but the most important parts of the post are where you mentioned "admittedly just highlights." It's really difficult to find a whole game where there wasn't a brain fart or some sort of wart shown in the kid's game, when watching whole games. Now, the caveat there is that safety play is sometimes pretty hard to figure out, based on what they're really being tasked with doing in terms of movement on any given snap, but highlights are definitely highlights for a reason. I could produce some of Limas Sweed from UT that would get you really excited about him as a second round pick, and would leave you wondering how the heck he wasn't a multi-time Pro Bowler.


Seems like a great kid and probably smart but that is different from football instincts or football smarts. And you are right, lack of football instincts is not going to show up on highlights.

Last time our D was great, it was led by smart instinctual football players... Troy and Harrison.

Role player Ryan Clark was a very smart football player.

Since the Troy/Clark combination, we have had a run of athletic but dumb safeties.

The knock on Edmunds is he lacks instincts so it is a concern. Hopefully he helps us.


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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:04 am 
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The other thing to be hopeful about here is the coaching change. Carnell Lake became our secondary coach without much on his resume other than, well, being Carnell Lake. Tom Bradley has a pretty strong (and this comes from a Pitt alum and Buckeye fan, so basically as big a PSU hater as you'll find, ask Swiss) reputation as a teacher of the game, from everything I've seen of the players he's coached up, and been told by folks who should know far better than me. I don't love the pick, but I feel better about the possibilities this year than I would have last.


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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:23 am 
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Ice wrote:
Love a good allusion or two, but the most important parts of the post are where you mentioned "admittedly just highlights." It's really difficult to find a whole game where there wasn't a brain fart or some sort of wart shown in the kid's game, when watching whole games. Now, the caveat there is that safety play is sometimes pretty hard to figure out, based on what they're really being tasked with doing in terms of movement on any given snap, but highlights are definitely highlights for a reason. I could produce some of Limas Sweed from UT that would get you really excited about him as a second round pick, and would leave you wondering how the heck he wasn't a multi-time Pro Bowler.


I think Limas Sweed is a sports psychologist's wet dream. His talent was unmistakable. In college in practice- everywhere but the actual Pro football field. Every player is going to have warts and it's rare for a guy to come in from day one and give us Pro Bowl caliber play. But if they get this kid on the field and he starts making hits and shutting down those runs that our back end defense couldnt do- then all this is just chicken little fan talk can be swept under the rug in a year.

Havoc wrote:
Seems like a great kid and probably smart but that is different from football instincts or football smarts. And you are right, lack of football instincts is not going to show up on highlights.

Last time our D was great, it was led by smart instinctual football players... Troy and Harrison.

Role player Ryan Clark was a very smart football player.

Since the Troy/Clark combination, we have had a run of athletic but dumb safeties.

The knock on Edmunds is he lacks instincts so it is a concern. Hopefully he helps us.


I think there is a reason for that. The kid is smart and he was asked to use those smarts to play a variety of positions because of the talent around him at VT. I think you lose a lot of positional nuances when you're asked to do that. We asked Troy to play strong safety- not corner, not free safety, not slot- strong safety. In that, he could study and learn the tendencies of the opposing players and react to something instantly to where it looks like instinct. So much so that the smart teams started to use that against him later in his career to get him out of position. I think if they ask this kid to play A position in the defensive backfield and on occasion put him at the LOS to naturally make tackles- you will see that instinctual nature but in a traditional sense- Troy was on another planet. However, Troy missed a lot of tackles and put himself at injury risk with his type of play. I think this kid might not make as many of those splash plays- but we won't be cursing him out for missing a tackle that could have gotten us off the field on 3rd down.

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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:33 am 
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One thing to remember about Edmunds: coach's kid. He was the guy who knew what everybody was supped to do, where they were supposed to line up on every play. Last year he did all that playing multiple spots with a shoulder injury and a harness. The more I learn about him that I didn't know before the draft, the more I like the pick. As per usual.

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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:32 am 
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I'll hang my hat on that, athleticism and Bradley, B2B. Actually, added together, not terribly shabby.


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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:40 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
One thing to remember about Edmunds: coach's kid.


Also, Pro Bowl NFL Player son -- whose brothers also play in the NFL

I know bloodlines don't mean everything, but they are worth something.


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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:53 pm 
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Ice, I actually think watching highlights is a valuable tool as part of scouting a player. What is he capable of? Has he accumulated big plays?

If you trust your coaching, then seeing the best of what a player can do can be more valuable than picking apart the mistakes he makes. I think that's ESPECIALLY true of QBs, but it applies everywhere.

If there's one thing I hate in a prospect, it's a guy who has good technique, makes few mistakes, and doesn't make highlight plays. I guess you need some Larry Footes but I'd much rather give my coaches players who can make plays.

I understand that this is how you get an Artie Burns that you have to live with his mistakes as he learns/grows... but I'll take my chances with guys who have at least shown the upside worth drafting and getting in your building.

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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:51 pm 
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I definitely understand it's nice to know the guy is capable of big plays, otherwise you end up with, well, Marcus Allen. I just think it'd be helpful for casual draft fans to have a "lowlights" video to accompany the highlights. Otherwise, you probably look at the highlight reel, assume that the rest of the snaps are at least neutral, and end up unpleasantly surprised.


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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 5:26 pm 
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Ice wrote:
I definitely understand it's nice to know the guy is capable of big plays, otherwise you end up with, well, Marcus Allen. I just think it'd be helpful for casual draft fans to have a "lowlights" video to accompany the highlights. Otherwise, you probably look at the highlight reel, assume that the rest of the snaps are at least neutral, and end up unpleasantly surprised.

Yep, I think that's what I'm always looking for... why does he win when he makes a big play? Why did he fail when he makes a bad one? Is he a fit for what he was asked to do and would tasking him to do fewer or different things show his talents more?

Sometimes the "highlights" show me stuff that I interpret as bad things. For example, not once in Jeff Janis's highlights did he catch a 50/50 ball or one where he used his impressive vertical. Reminded me of what we didn't like about Mike Wallace.

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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 5:42 pm 
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That's an interesting point about interpretation of the highlights, for sure. Just looking back at the Washington highlights packages again, they do show him to be a good fit for the things I'm thinking (based on who he's "replacing") he's going to be asked to do.

Based on a lot of the available camera angles on highlights and whole games safety play (even though I played it for 3 years in HS) has always been a tough one to get a read on, particularly when you think about all the things they're possibly asked to do on any given down.


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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:26 pm 
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steel wrote:
He looks like a football player in these highlights -- likes to hit and tackle - can cover



First play the QB doesn't see him at all on a forced 3rd and 17 throw, throws the ball directly to him, and he can't shake the first man he sees, a 270 pound TE. The highlight cuts off before he immediately fumbles the ball when tackled, which is fortunately recovered by a teammate that saved his ass. :P

I'm still waiting for someone to point out a game he was great in. I haven't seen it yet. I think the guy is a JAG. Straight line athlete with no COD and bad instincts.

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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:09 pm 
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DB that fumbles after an int?!

OMG. DND!


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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:51 pm 
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we shall see

he can hit and tackle -- i can see that on the "highlights"

Has excellent physical traits as well - very explosive athlete

Looking forward to preseason


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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:07 pm 
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It's just the first time I can remember I've delved into a Steelers first round pick's tape and don't see much that I like. Not since Dupree certainly, and at least with Dupree he was a SPARQ god and had the excuse that he was a converted TE to DE, didn't have a LB coach at Kentucky, etc. I don't know, would love to be wrong, but to me he looks like a borderline day 2 into early day 3 guy. Hopefully they nailed it.

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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 6:49 am 
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TB wrote:
It's just the first time I can remember I've delved into a Steelers first round pick's tape and don't see much that I like. Not since Dupree certainly, and at least with Dupree he was a SPARQ god and had the excuse that he was a converted TE to DE, didn't have a LB coach at Kentucky, etc. I don't know, would love to be wrong, but to me he looks like a borderline day 2 into early day 3 guy. Hopefully they nailed it.


This is where my hope that Tom Bradley is the DB coach answer to Mike Munchak comes in. The only reason I didn't totally lose my shit at the 3rd round OT pick is Coach Munch.


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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:36 am 
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These highlights do showcase some explosive ability. I also like his play on receivers over the middle on short crossers in key 3rd down situations. The INT where he played centerfield and caught the ball over his shoulder was nice.

That said, I went back and watched a lot of his film using Tremaine footage (lots of full game footage on his brother). The problem I saw was that Terrel did indeed seem to be a step or two late in making plays. His read/react time was quite poor. For a guy that is supposed to be a great communicator, coaches son, and know all the calls, I didn't see him anticipate or react that well.

Luckily, he seems like a good kid and a hard work guy, so perhaps he can be coached up to have better reaction to plays. But, it certainly is something to keep an eye on.


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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:52 am 
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The one thing we don't know is how they will use him as a rookie, or to what extent they may let him freelance. One thing about Polamalu is he was able to freelance, use his instincts, his great speed and athletic ability to blow plays up, to guess a lot, to even make mistakes knowing that Ryan Clark and others had his back and could clean up if he did guess wrong.

Even with Shazier, he did not really play like say a Luke Kuechly. Shazier was all about penetrating, gambling, meeting the RB not just in the hole, but before he even got a chance to enter the hole. At times it looked like he was over running plays, or missing tackles, but it sure seemed like it was all by design. They wanted Shazier to be the point man that forced the play to come undone, and often other players would come in behind and clean the play up.

With Edumunds, who knows maybe having Burnett allows Edmunds to be that gambling, freelancing player that the Steelers like to use in their defense. Burnett can be that QB of the defense that gets everybody lined up and allows Edmunds as a rookie to just play fast. I don't expect Edmunds to be able to do everything that Burnett can in year one, but I can't think of a better situation to be able to learn from Morgan and to see how he does it, in practice, during games, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:03 am 
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franco32 wrote:
These highlights do showcase some explosive ability. I also like his play on receivers over the middle on short crossers in key 3rd down situations. The INT where he played centerfield and caught the ball over his shoulder was nice.

That said, I went back and watched a lot of his film using Tremaine footage (lots of full game footage on his brother). The problem I saw was that Terrel did indeed seem to be a step or two late in making plays. His read/react time was quite poor. For a guy that is supposed to be a great communicator, coaches son, and know all the calls, I didn't see him anticipate or react that well.

Luckily, he seems like a good kid and a hard work guy, so perhaps he can be coached up to have better reaction to plays. But, it certainly is something to keep an eye on.


That was my biggest takeaway watching him.

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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:16 am 
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Duke is a pretty good example. It's hard to know exactly what his responsibilities are play to play-- is all over the place-- but he doesn't look particularly late or slow processing to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 7:16 am 
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Put 10 more pounds of muscle on him he's ILB sized but with the athleticism of a safety.


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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 9:19 am 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Put 10 more pounds of muscle on him he's ILB sized but with the athleticism of a safety.


For some odd reason, you just gave me a Scott Shields flashback, SF.


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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:15 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Steelafan77 wrote:
Put 10 more pounds of muscle on him he's ILB sized but with the athleticism of a safety.


For some odd reason, you just gave me a Scott Shields flashback, SF.


Come on, not after lunch.

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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 3:31 pm 
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Quote:
Jeremy Fowler
ESPN Staff Writer
The Steelers are putting first-round safety Terrell Edmunds' versatility to the test early in rookie minicamp. Edmunds (No. 34), who looks every bit of 217 pounds, said he played safety and linebacker snaps for the defense. He's also getting to show his leadership by making a few defensive calls. "You can't think that you are a first-round pick and everything is going to fall to you," Edmunds said. "I come out here and compete every day."


http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers


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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:31 am 
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PFF take on the Steelers draft



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 Post subject: Re: Terrel Edmunds S Virginia Tech - 1st Round
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 5:18 pm 
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Can't disagree with any of that. Edmunds is the biggest gamble Colbert/Tomlin have ever taken in the first round. He's got big time bust potential. Hopefully they can coach him up ( :? ) because he wasn't a great player in college.

Washington was the most productive WR in D1, looked great at the Senior Bowl, and is a classic great value pick at the end of the second. Rudolph is the best QB they've drafted since Ben. Time will tell if he's got franchise QB potential but I love the way he carries himself and how he handled the drama Ben threw his way right after he was drafted. People saying we should've drafted an ILB just for the sake of drafting an ILB at Rudolph's spot and that drafting a QB is a waste of a pick are so off base. Our starting QB is 36, is one more bad hit to the head or knee injury from probably never being the same player again or possibly calling it a career, and you're going to bash them using a third round pick on someone they feel has franchise QB potential? :lol: okay. Thank god you're not running this team. If he hits, awesome, we've got out next guy. If not, keep plugging away. I said a year or two ago we should be drafting a QB every year. You don't keep your job by letting the most important position in the game go unaddressed, wait til Ben retires, lose a shitload of games with the thought of "Oh well, we're just find a QB early in the draft and let the rookie step into leading our now awful team." Um, no.

Okorafor is a pile of clay, Allen is a JAG who might not make the 53, Samuels is easily their most interesting day 3 guy and hopefully carves out a role for himself, and Frazier will probably be cut.

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