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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:18 pm 
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Steelers Exercised fifth-year option on LB Bud Dupree’s rookie contract. http://www.steelers.com/news/transactio ... ef4ea1a621


Yay!


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:57 pm 
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he needs to be healthy because he can"t always use that as an excuse.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:23 pm 
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steelmann58 wrote:
he needs to be healthy because he can"t always use that as an excuse.

I think the fact that he hasn't made it through an entire season healthy is a bigger issue than anything he did or didn't do on the field.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:47 am 
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I really think the Steelers need to figure out what they want from their OLBs in this defense, whatever this defense happens to be or whatever it is becoming.

This is not Dick LeBeau's 3-4 defense any longer, and yet...

They still are drafting that certain prototypical 3-4 OLB. Yeah, they have flirted with the occasional Travis Feeney, but they still are bringing in the same old standard 3-4 OLB, 6'3-6'4" 250-255 players year after year.

Which would be great, if this were 2008, but it isn't. This is 2018, we are in a our base 3-4 defense some 25% of the time. Expecting Dupree or Watt to do what Harrison and Woodley did back then is delusional, not the same defense, and not the same league, rules have changed, offenses have changed.

If we are dropping our OLBs into coverage more than ever before does it make sense to continue drafting these prototypical 255 pound players any longer? Wouldn't an OLB who is 230, 235, be quicker, faster, do a better job of playing in coverage?

As I see it, Watt and Dupree should be 4-3 DEs, playing 65-70% of the time and being very successful if they were drafted by some other team and playing elsewhere. Only in Pittsburgh do we think it is a great idea to drop 255 pound OLBs into coverage as much as we do.

I just see an identity crisis on defense. They (the coaches) don't seem to have a real plan to finally break free of LeBeau's 3-4. At one point last season, before the NE game it was reported that we were still playing zone coverage 88% of the time, then they finally played man coverage in that NE game and it was like a revelation.

It can't just be a one off thing that you hold in reserve for NE, it has to be a staple of your defense. Hopefully, with Burnett and now with Haden being in year two and with a new defensive backs coach they will play much more man coverage.

But the OLB conundrum is a difficult thing for me to wrap my head around. If you are devaluing the position in your defense, if you are not expecting them to get double digit sacks, dropping them into coverage more, not expecting them to be the focal point of the pass rush, then why continue to spend first round picks on the position?

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:39 am 
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I see the same thing Scunge. I see a defense with LeBeau remnants combined with Tomlin influences. Obviously it has no place in the NFL the way it's set up now, well..., last season anyway. Teams figure out where to target the weaknesses for better success. Having one do-it-all star player [in the past Polamalu, until recently Shazier] in this era of the NFL won't work anymore. There needs to be more of a 'hive' mentality IMHO. Contributions from all over the defense has to be the goal. Tuitt and Heyward up front last season did a lot of the dirty work with the occasional VWill and Hilton contribution. The secondary outside of Haden [when he was playing] and Hilton was woefully below average. LB's were..., well, where were they? I agree for the most part the defense is in some sort of transition. What that is I haven't a clue.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:12 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
steelmann58 wrote:
he needs to be healthy because he can"t always use that as an excuse.

I think the fact that he hasn't made it through an entire season healthy is a bigger issue than anything he did or didn't do on the field.


What good things did he do on the field?

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:34 am 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
I see the same thing Scunge. I see a defense with LeBeau remnants combined with Tomlin influences. Obviously it has no place in the NFL the way it's set up now, well..., last season anyway. Teams figure out where to target the weaknesses for better success. Having one do-it-all star player [in the past Polamalu, until recently Shazier] in this era of the NFL won't work anymore. There needs to be more of a 'hive' mentality IMHO. Contributions from all over the defense has to be the goal. Tuitt and Heyward up front last season did a lot of the dirty work with the occasional VWill and Hilton contribution. The secondary outside of Haden [when he was playing] and Hilton was woefully below average. LB's were..., well, where were they? I agree for the most part the defense is in some sort of transition. What that is I haven't a clue.

You guys act like our defense was brutally bad last year. It was closer to being good than awful.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:58 am 
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I think the Steelers hamstring themselves with OLBs. It is really hard to get the pass rush and edge set and cover LB in one package. Now they are lucky to get one of those traits that is decent. I want to see them draft a pass rush specialist.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:13 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Steelafan77 wrote:
I see the same thing Scunge. I see a defense with LeBeau remnants combined with Tomlin influences. Obviously it has no place in the NFL the way it's set up now, well..., last season anyway. Teams figure out where to target the weaknesses for better success. Having one do-it-all star player [in the past Polamalu, until recently Shazier] in this era of the NFL won't work anymore. There needs to be more of a 'hive' mentality IMHO. Contributions from all over the defense has to be the goal. Tuitt and Heyward up front last season did a lot of the dirty work with the occasional VWill and Hilton contribution. The secondary outside of Haden [when he was playing] and Hilton was woefully below average. LB's were..., well, where were they? I agree for the most part the defense is in some sort of transition. What that is I haven't a clue.

You guys act like our defense was brutally bad last year. It was closer to being good than awful.


Finished 5th in the league overall, broke the franchise record for sacks, was the main reason this team was worth a damn for the first half of the season when our highly paid offense was floundering. They didn’t have the depth to sustain the Shazier injury, who was playing like an All Pro before he went down, but they were pretty damn good last season. Excited to see the growth of Watt, Burns, and to hopefully get back healthier versions of Tuitt, Hargrave, and Dupree. Not to mention Bostic and Burnett, who I like both, and the rooks we’re going to add.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:04 am 
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TB wrote:
...but they were pretty damn good last season.


Against bad offenses and 2nd and 3rd string QB's.....otherwise, not so much. That defense last year should be the poster child for "paper tiger".

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:08 am 
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KC wrote:
Had high hopes for Dupree going into last season.

HE SUCKED COCK.


Not that there's anything wrong with that...


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:26 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Steelafan77 wrote:
I see the same thing Scunge. I see a defense with LeBeau remnants combined with Tomlin influences. Obviously it has no place in the NFL the way it's set up now, well..., last season anyway. Teams figure out where to target the weaknesses for better success. Having one do-it-all star player [in the past Polamalu, until recently Shazier] in this era of the NFL won't work anymore. There needs to be more of a 'hive' mentality IMHO. Contributions from all over the defense has to be the goal. Tuitt and Heyward up front last season did a lot of the dirty work with the occasional VWill and Hilton contribution. The secondary outside of Haden [when he was playing] and Hilton was woefully below average. LB's were..., well, where were they? I agree for the most part the defense is in some sort of transition. What that is I haven't a clue.

You guys act like our defense was brutally bad last year. It was closer to being good than awful.
For most fans, those long runs, runs for first downs on 3rd and 9, and long pass plays over 30 yards coupled with allowing over 40 pts to Jacksonville kinda outweighs any good stats or what the the defense did the rest of the season.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:33 pm 
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The defense played decent with shazier against some pretty shitty QBs early on
They folded completely without shazier against quality or physical Os


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:52 pm 
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They also folded against a shitty QB in Chicago with Shazier.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:55 pm 
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If they do it
IMO it's more a reflection of the current troubles at LB and not Dupree real worth


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:07 pm 
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955876 wrote:
They also folded against a shitty QB in Chicago with Shazier.


Gave up 17 whole points in 4 quarters.

Eli Rogers muffed a punt at our 29 leading to points.

We also had the blocked field goal where the Bears got the ball at our 1, 3 easy points that ST gave up right before the end of the half.

They absolutely did their job that game. We lost because Ben and the offense shit their pants on the road against a crappy opponent, as we’ve seen plenty of times before.

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Dad showed up after work and according to her the entire hospital hears my dad yell you are not naming our son Hoss.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:28 pm 
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Well..., I suppose the same can be said for those of you that feel like the defense was good. They couldn't stop the run. At. All!
When has there been a Steelers defense in recent history that was unable to stop the run as horribly? Then add to that those ever common long pass plays where the dumb asses in the secondary got smoked brutally and embarrassed. Like I stated before. They broke a fucking franchise sack record. Big fucking whoopty doo. Where did that get them? :lol:

I want to stop the run. Defend against the pass by forcing the QB to hold onto the pigskin longer. Creating splash play opportunities like INT's, FF's, pressures and sacks. Or, just Get off the field on 3rd downs. I don't care about franchise records unless they result in Championships.

Gonzo wrote:
The defense played decent with shazier against some pretty shitty QBs early on
They folded completely without shazier against quality or physical Os
That is exactly my point about One player they expect superhuman effort from like Troy in the past and Ryan until injury. After those two super star players left the field the defense(s) seemed stale and easily beatable to the point of humiliating ass whoopings. More of a hive mentality is needed. Depth is critical, FC stated in the part 2 podcast. Without Depth I don't see the Steelers making any Championships while Ben is still under center.


Last edited by Steelafan77 on Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:31 pm 
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Gave up 17 whole points in 4 quarters.


And also gave up 222 rushing yards to a team that had as close to zero threat of the pass as you’ll get in today’s NFL.

Don’t know what your definition of “folded” is but when a defense can’t stop an extremely limited & one dimensional offense like the Bears they will fit my definition of the term.

I don’t disagree with you about the offense with the exception that I’d say they sucked TOO that day.

Being so busy figuring out where they stood socially on the whole kneel or stand thing was obviously too much for them to do AND play a football game that day.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:10 pm 
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TB wrote:
955876 wrote:
They also folded against a shitty QB in Chicago with Shazier.


Gave up 17 whole points in 4 quarters.

Eli Rogers muffed a punt at our 29 leading to points.

We also had the blocked field goal where the Bears got the ball at our 1, 3 easy points that ST gave up right before the end of the half.

They absolutely did their job that game. We lost because Ben and the offense shit their pants on the road against a crappy opponent, as we’ve seen plenty of times before.


You can deflect to the O all you like. The D was poor that day - thy got steamrolled via the run against a team they Knew was going to run all day or throw short. That’s why I mentioned shitty play vs quality Os and Physical Olines/RBs. The D needs work - the O is less a function of poor play IMO as it is choice of plays and pace. Hopefully the new OC will bring change although I doubt it


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:54 pm 
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12 drives in regulation: 3 scores allowed, one was a 29 yard drive, one was a 1 yard drive. Their drives that day in regulation:

3 plays, -1 yard
6 plays, 29 yards
6 plays, 21 yards
6 plays, 12 yards
9 plays, 75 yards
1 play, -4 yards
3 plays, -2 yards
2 plays, -1 yards
10 plays, 33 yards
3 plays, 3 yards
8 plays, 38 yards

One drive over 38 yards. WTF do you want, the 2001 Ravens? They did their job.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:00 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Steelafan77 wrote:
I see the same thing Scunge. I see a defense with LeBeau remnants combined with Tomlin influences. Obviously it has no place in the NFL the way it's set up now, well..., last season anyway. Teams figure out where to target the weaknesses for better success. Having one do-it-all star player [in the past Polamalu, until recently Shazier] in this era of the NFL won't work anymore. There needs to be more of a 'hive' mentality IMHO. Contributions from all over the defense has to be the goal. Tuitt and Heyward up front last season did a lot of the dirty work with the occasional VWill and Hilton contribution. The secondary outside of Haden [when he was playing] and Hilton was woefully below average. LB's were..., well, where were they? I agree for the most part the defense is in some sort of transition. What that is I haven't a clue.

You guys act like our defense was brutally bad last year. It was closer to being good than awful.
For most fans, those long runs, runs for first downs on 3rd and 9, and long pass plays over 30 yards coupled with allowing over 40 pts to Jacksonville kinda outweighs any good stats or what the the defense did the rest of the season.


We finished the RS 11th in Pts/Dr, 10th TO's/Dr

Respectable, gave us a fighting chance with the O expected to lead us in the PS and would have been something to build on if we hadn't lost Shazier.

The DL was unleashed to rush the passer more than under Lebeau which is something many of us wanted. Arrow WAS pointing up, IMO. I really thought there was a lot to like on the D moving forward but no Shazier changes everything.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:21 pm 
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And 9th in DVOA....which doesn't really meet the eyetest.

But the offenses they raced ranked 26th. And then you remember we caught a lot of those offenses starting a rookie QB and/or their back-up.

And, yes, then you lost Shazier. No surprise what happened in the playoffs. And I think Shazier only makes a marginal difference, but perhaps enough to sneak past JAX before another pasting at NE.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:16 pm 
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They did their job.


222 yards rushing.

84 net yards passing.

This wasn’t some multi-faceted offense they had to figure out.

You don’t have to be the 2001 Ravens to hold yourself to a higher standard.

Same result against the Jags. Twice.

This team was soft as wet butter against the run last year.

Might have cost us a SB...


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:29 am 
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They did their job.



Poorly


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers Rumored to Exercise Bud Dupree's 5th-Year Contr
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:45 am 
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Havoc wrote:
We finished the RS 11th in Pts/Dr, 10th TO's/Dr

Respectable, gave us a fighting chance with the O expected to lead us in the PS and would have been something to build on if we hadn't lost Shazier.

The DL was unleashed to rush the passer more than under Lebeau which is something many of us wanted. Arrow WAS pointing up, IMO. I really thought there was a lot to like on the D moving forward but no Shazier changes everything.
I agree. But just look at the responses here about the steelers' D. No doubt it has it's problems, but it wasn't as bad as is being made out to be here.

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