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 Post subject: Re: Harrison Retires
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:29 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Is JH a Hall of Famer?


I think that's a very interesting question.

5 Pro Bowls
2 All Pros
1 Defensive MVP
One of the greatest plays in Super Bowl History.


Definitely guys in the hall right now with worse resumes than that.

But, without looking (so I could be wrong), I'd suspect there's guys not in who have better resumes, as well.

I think he definitely gets in, but it takes a few years after he's eligible.


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 Post subject: Re: Harrison Retires
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:39 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
Is JH a Hall of Famer?


I think that's a very interesting question.

5 Pro Bowls
2 All Pros
1 Defensive MVP
One of the greatest plays in Super Bowl History.


Definitely guys in the hall right now with worse resumes than that.

But, without looking (so I could be wrong), I'd suspect there's guys not in who have better resumes, as well.

I think he definitely gets in, but it takes a few years after he's eligible.

Pro Bowls mean almost nothing. They hand out PB berths like free samples at Sams Club.
I would’ve thought he’d have more than 2 All Pro seasons.
I don’t think he’s sniffing the HoF.

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 Post subject: Re: Harrison Retires
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:21 pm 
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Don’t forget about 2 time medicine ball volleyball MVP!


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 Post subject: Re: Harrison Retires
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:50 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Is JH a Hall of Famer?


I think that James has at least as good of an argument for being a Hall of Famer as Kurt Warner and Terrell Davis. All three had amazing peaks but merely very good total career statistics. I think the whole debacle this year has hurt JH's chances of induction somewhat, however, as it probably chills some of the support he'd get from the Pittsburgh sportswriters.


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 Post subject: Re: Harrison Retires
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:26 am 
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Stillerz Bar wrote:

I agree that BB is a better coach than Tomlin (though we’ll never really know how much better without knowing how much they “rule bending” gave him an advantage), but that still doesn’t mean that Tomlin isn’t one of the top few in the league right now.

That said I find it kind of interesting that BB also let some sort of pissing match impact his giving the Pats the best chance to win…..and he did it in the Super Bowl. Amendola recently said “Nobody really got an explanation for it. He's a brother of ours. He was a brother of ours that year. And I hate to see a guy who worked so hard throughout the season not get a chance to play in the biggest game of the year and really get no explanation for it."



On the "rule bending" I would need proof it happened during Steelers-Patriots games 2007-present. And are we sure Tomlin doesn't bend the rules as well?

Totally agree with you on BB's decision in SB vs. Philly. BB let his pride and arrogance come before a championship. As fateful as Tomlin's decision to ease in to the SB vs. Packers.

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 Post subject: Re: Harrison Retires
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:35 am 
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Obviously wrote:
Stillerz Bar wrote:

I agree that BB is a better coach than Tomlin (though we’ll never really know how much better without knowing how much they “rule bending” gave him an advantage), but that still doesn’t mean that Tomlin isn’t one of the top few in the league right now.

That said I find it kind of interesting that BB also let some sort of pissing match impact his giving the Pats the best chance to win…..and he did it in the Super Bowl. Amendola recently said “Nobody really got an explanation for it. He's a brother of ours. He was a brother of ours that year. And I hate to see a guy who worked so hard throughout the season not get a chance to play in the biggest game of the year and really get no explanation for it."



On the "rule bending" I would need proof it happened during Steelers-Patriots games 2007-present. And are we sure Tomlin doesn't bend the rules as well?.


Tomlin was fined $100k for his Thanksgiving 2013 dumb stunt against the Ravens. :roll:
His hands are not clean.


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 Post subject: Re: Harrison Retires
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:49 am 
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W&M_Steeler wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
Is JH a Hall of Famer?


I think that James has at least as good of an argument for being a Hall of Famer as Kurt Warner and Terrell Davis. All three had amazing peaks but merely very good total career statistics. I think the whole debacle this year has hurt JH's chances of induction somewhat, however, as it probably chills some of the support he'd get from the Pittsburgh sportswriters.



Those are certainly two of the nams I was thinking about. Lynn Swann was another. I wasn't around when Swann played, but the more I look into his numbers and resume, the more I understand other fanbases being pissed that he's in the Hall of Fame. It was a different era, for sure, but even comparing his numbers against other WRs of that ara shows that he didn't really stack up. Which tells me that he's proof that a few Super Bowls and a bunch of highlight reel plays is enough to get a guy in.

And I think that's where Harrison's bid benefits. He may not have been as good for as long as many people would like to see out of a HoF candidate, but I think his reputation and number of highlight reel plays gets him the nod eventually. That, and he was kind of the last of the dominating bully archetype, the last of an era. Remember, he was the player the NFL targeted when they originally got a stick up their collective asses about the head to head hits and became the poster boy for fines and suspensions over such hits.

Voters will remember that the same way they'll remember rules being made up for Deacon Jones, Mel Blount and Hines Ward.

So I get looking at Harrison's resume and thinking it's not enough. But I do think his overall legacy, like Swann's, makes up for that and will give him the nod at some point.


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 Post subject: Re: Harrison Retires
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:47 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Is JH a Hall of Famer?


52nd in sacks all-time and probably up there, as well, in forced fumbles. With a DPOY to go along with that SB interception, he SHOULD be a lock for the HOF. Guy was a beast for the better part of 10 years - and just think almost all that in his 30's

Probably one of the most feared/dominant defenders and hardest hitters in his era. I doubt the Goodell bullshit or other potential issues are remotely enough to keep him out.

His longevity and "production" is kind of comparable to Polamulu, who played just 12 years. Troy started 25 more games, but he was so struggling with injuries in many of those he was a shell of himself.

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 Post subject: Re: Harrison Retires
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:25 am 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
W&M_Steeler wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
Is JH a Hall of Famer?


I think that James has at least as good of an argument for being a Hall of Famer as Kurt Warner and Terrell Davis. All three had amazing peaks but merely very good total career statistics. I think the whole debacle this year has hurt JH's chances of induction somewhat, however, as it probably chills some of the support he'd get from the Pittsburgh sportswriters.



Those are certainly two of the nams I was thinking about. Lynn Swann was another. I wasn't around when Swann played, but the more I look into his numbers and resume, the more I understand other fanbases being pissed that he's in the Hall of Fame. It was a different era, for sure, but even comparing his numbers against other WRs of that ara shows that he didn't really stack up. Which tells me that he's proof that a few Super Bowls and a bunch of highlight reel plays is enough to get a guy in.

And I think that's where Harrison's bid benefits. He may not have been as good for as long as many people would like to see out of a HoF candidate, but I think his reputation and number of highlight reel plays gets him the nod eventually. That, and he was kind of the last of the dominating bully archetype, the last of an era. Remember, he was the player the NFL targeted when they originally got a stick up their collective asses about the head to head hits and became the poster boy for fines and suspensions over such hits.

Voters will remember that the same way they'll remember rules being made up for Deacon Jones, Mel Blount and Hines Ward.

So I get looking at Harrison's resume and thinking it's not enough. But I do think his overall legacy, like Swann's, makes up for that and will give him the nod at some point.



This.

The other teams in the league feared this guy. <<<<that is an understatement. He'll get in.


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 Post subject: Re: Harrison Retires
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:36 pm 
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I'm with Jobu. I don't think Harrison is close to the HOF. As mentioned, he's 52nd all time in sacks (with Von Miller, Clay Matthews, and JJ Watt all likely to pass him this year). Adding to that, lets compare some numbers:

James Harrison:
84.5 Sacks
34 Forced Fumbles, 9 Fumble Recoveries
8 Interceptions

5x Pro Bowl, 2x All Pro, 1x DPOY, 2x Super Bowl Champ


Joey Porter
98 Sacks
25 Forced Fumbles, 10 Fumble Recoveries
12 Interceptions

4x Pro Bowl, 1x All Pro, 1x Super Bowl Champ

Pat Swilling
107.5 Sacks
36 Forced Fumbles, 11 Fumble Recoveries
6 Interceptions

5x Pro Bowl, 2x All Pro, 1x DPOY

Neil Smith
104.5 Sacks
30 Forced Fumbles, 12 Fumble Recoveries
4 Interceptions

6x Pro Bowl, 1x All Pro, 1x Super Bowl Champ

Simeon Rice
122 Sacks
28 Forced Fumbles, 8 Fumble Recoveries
5 Interceptions

3x Pro Bowl, 1x All Pro, Rookie of the Year, 1x Super Bowl Champ


Rice, Swilling, and Porter aren't going into the Hall. Smith has been eligible for almost 15 years and hasn't gotten in.
Adding to that, there will be a glut of players with significantly better numbers becoming eligible around the same time: Julius Peppers, DeMarcus Ware, Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney, Terrell Suggs

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