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 Post subject: Re: Harrison Retires
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:38 pm
Posts: 630
Pabst wrote:
I'm with Jobu. I don't think Harrison is close to the HOF. As mentioned, he's 52nd all time in sacks (with Von Miller, Clay Matthews, and JJ Watt all likely to pass him this year). Adding to that, lets compare some numbers:

James Harrison:
84.5 Sacks
34 Forced Fumbles, 9 Fumble Recoveries
8 Interceptions

5x Pro Bowl, 2x All Pro, 1x DPOY, 2x Super Bowl Champ


Joey Porter
98 Sacks
25 Forced Fumbles, 10 Fumble Recoveries
12 Interceptions

4x Pro Bowl, 1x All Pro, 1x Super Bowl Champ

Pat Swilling
107.5 Sacks
36 Forced Fumbles, 11 Fumble Recoveries
6 Interceptions

5x Pro Bowl, 2x All Pro, 1x DPOY

Neil Smith
104.5 Sacks
30 Forced Fumbles, 12 Fumble Recoveries
4 Interceptions

6x Pro Bowl, 1x All Pro, 1x Super Bowl Champ

Simeon Rice
122 Sacks
28 Forced Fumbles, 8 Fumble Recoveries
5 Interceptions

3x Pro Bowl, 1x All Pro, Rookie of the Year, 1x Super Bowl Champ


Rice, Swilling, and Porter aren't going into the Hall. Smith has been eligible for almost 15 years and hasn't gotten in.
Adding to that, there will be a glut of players with significantly better numbers becoming eligible around the same time: Julius Peppers, DeMarcus Ware, Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney, Terrell Suggs


But James has the iconic 99 YD game swinging pick six in the Super Bowl to go along with his DPOY. I have my doubts about whether James Harrison will ever make the Hall, I think he's a cut above the other LBs you listed on sentimentality alone. He feels like a guy who should be in the HoF, even though his overall numbers don't support it.

But if someone like Terrell Davis can get in, then maybe all those guys you named should also be in as well. I still can't believe Davis made it. Rueben Droughns looked like a stud in that Denver system. I also think that Kurt Warner's stint with the Giants should have been enough to torpedo his candidacy. Those guys set the bar low for HoF induction.


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 Post subject: Re: Harrison Retires
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:58 pm
Posts: 732
In the minds of many, James Harrison is roided up, dirty, and an asshole. Combine that with good-not-great career numbers, a slow start to his career, and some mediocre seasons, and I don't see him getting in.


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 Post subject: Re: Harrison Retires
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:34 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:11 pm
Posts: 2026
W&M_Steeler wrote:
BarryFoster wrote:
Obviously wrote:
Tomlin doesn't suck. He just can't beat Belichick. As I said when the Pats signed James, I trust BB's judgment far more than Tomlin's. BB saw he still had something in the tank. Tomlin preferred to believe Moats and Chickillo had more to give. That says all I need to know.

Thanks for everything, James!


He can’t beat Jax either


He also can't beat teams that have Mike Glennon playing QB.


Or tebow


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 Post subject: Re: Harrison Retires
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:13 pm
Posts: 1594
W&M_Steeler wrote:
But James has the iconic 99 YD game swinging pick six in the Super Bowl to go along with his DPOY. I have my doubts about whether James Harrison will ever make the Hall, I think he's a cut above the other LBs you listed on sentimentality alone. He feels like a guy who should be in the HoF, even though his overall numbers don't support it.

But if someone like Terrell Davis can get in, then maybe all those guys you named should also be in as well. I still can't believe Davis made it. Rueben Droughns looked like a stud in that Denver system. I also think that Kurt Warner's stint with the Giants should have been enough to torpedo his candidacy. Those guys set the bar low for HoF induction.

Oh, I completely agree that TD shouldn't be in the Hall. That said, he is still one of only 7 players to top 2000 yards in a season; and i believe that his 97 and 98 seasons were the best 2 year stint in history (I could be wrong there). Kurt Warner led his team to the Super Bowl 3x; plus he's 5th all time in YPA, 3rd all time in completion %, and 10th in Passer Rating - that's not really a good comp.

With Harrison, his best season (2008) doesn't even register in the top 50 all time for sacks in a season. And his 7 forced fumbles are well short of the record (10). As a frame of reference, Robert Quinn bested those numbers in 2013, and he didn't win DPOY. There are plenty of guys with solid stats and iconic Super Bowl moments that won't sniff the Hall (Joe Flacco, for example).

Look at Harrison's overall body of work: He had 10+ sacks in a season only 3 times. As a comparison, Tamba Hali also did it 3 times (with greater overall totals), Cameron Wake 5x, Mario Williams 5x, Elvis Dumervil 4x. And that doesn't even get into the premier pass rushers of his generation.

Honestly, you could make a case that Harrison wasn't even a top 10 pass rusher while he played (I'm going to get alot of crap for this):
- Julius Peppers
- Jason Taylor
- Jared Allen
- John Abraham
- Dwight Freeney
- Terrell Suggs
- Robert Mathis
- Elvis Dumervil
- Von Miller
- Joey Porter

Great player? Yes. Iconic Steeler? Absolutely. Hall of Famer? No.

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 Post subject: Re: Harrison Retires
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:38 pm
Posts: 630
Good analysis Pabst. The only thing about which I strongly disagree with you is Kurt Warner.

Tony Romo has better overall stats than Warner (including both compilation stats and efficiency stats, as Romo had a better career passer rating, equal career YPA, and only slightly worse career completion %), but I don't think he's considered Hall of Fame worthy. On top of that, Warner had a five year stretch in the middle of his (already short) career during which he just wasn't very good. Look at his stats from 2002-2006, at time during which he lost his job to Marc Bulger and played for 3 different teams. Is there any other QB in the Hall who had as bad of a 5 year stretch in the middle of their career?

Warner won a Super Bowl (barely, against a mediocre Jeff Fisher led Titans team), has a great story, and is a fairly charismatic personality. But I don't think he should have sniffed the Hall of Fame. The admission of Warner and TD last year to me really skews what it means to be a Hall of Famer. I guess they join Joe Namath in the "WTF are they doing here?" category.

And, funny enough, Joe Namath is the only Hall of Fame QB included as Kurt Warner's career comparison on ProFootballReference: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... rnKu00.htm

EDIT: Here's an interesting link to analysis from a Cowboys fan regarding why Romo should not make the Hall of Fame. He has some interesting comparisons with Roethlisberger, Warner, Rivers and others: https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2018/3/ ... ll-of-fame

Basically, Warner made the Hall because of his story, his outlier MVP years, and his Super Bowl win. His overall body of work doesn't merit inclusion, IMO. I still think an argument can be made that if Warner (and TD) are in the Hall, James Harrison should be too based on the same sentimentality + high-quality outlier year justifications for admitting those two (though ultimately I don't think any of the three truly deserve it).


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