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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:22 pm 
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StillMadAtSlobber wrote:
This isn't half the issue you bedwetters think it is. It's about using the helmet, spearing, in the game.


They already had rules for that.

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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:15 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
VeritasSteel wrote:
Seattle has been using the rugby style tackle for years now and they had a great nasty defense. We as Steeler fans should be championing this rule change because the head down tackle is how Shazier got hurt.

.


Ahh yes anecdotal evidence is purely the best kind.
How many collisions do you think happen over the course of just 1 NFL season? Think of all the practices. Think of every play where linemen crash into each other with their helmets. Has to be close to a million right?

And 1 bad play went wrong so you want to eliminate it?

This is the same type thing that makes people irrationally afraid to fly where they are 10x more likely to die in a car crash.


I think the flying analogy is off base. There is fear of something hardly happening and then there is a certainty of knowing (at best) you are going to have some form of CTE after you retire.

The statistics from rugby to football as far as head injuries are well documented. Significantly less head injuries in rugby- but they have significantly more spinal injuries. There can be over 20 tackles for a team that has possession and it has to be done a certain way. Stopping a 230-pound man without equipment requires skill and technique that could save your life and brain. The stats from a sport to sport is far from anecdotal. The application to Pro football may be.

Watershed moments happen in any events. Cocaine was a harmless drug used by the rich until the Dadeland Massacre. The mafia was just a shadowy non-organization who policed their own until civilians started to get killed. Some of it happens suddenly other times it's a gradual thing. So to say can ONE incident change the culture? yeah, it happens. In America, you can pretty much you can do anything as long as someone isn't getting hurt.

What the NFL is dealing with is a young rising star got hurt on national TV. That confirms what most parents are starting to think about the game of football. How the league e reassures parents and kids in order for them to keep playing football is where we are now. People sitting on their couches wanting carnage and blood aren't the NFL's MAIN audience anymore its the kids. Everyone on this board had a pro football dream at some point in their lives- some of those dreams died at pee wee ball. What happens when kids no longer have that dream- then football goes away like horse racing. Good for the Kentucky Derby or the Belmont- but otherwise who cares?

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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:25 pm 
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There are going to be flags after virtually every single play next season.

....so we have THAT to look forward to.

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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:04 pm 
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R S wrote:
StillMadAtSlobber wrote:
This isn't half the issue you bedwetters think it is. It's about using the helmet, spearing, in the game.


They already had rules for that.


And they didn't think it was being called, so they made it another rule, with an ejection clause in there.

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R S wrote:
I'm sure she still wakes up in cold sweats and night terrors of Peyton's wrinkly ball sack pitter-pattering on her forehead.


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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:55 pm 
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look at the bright side - more variety for the refs to help keep the game close, don't have to over-rely on DPI

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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:48 pm 
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I guess Ben does not have to worry about qb sneaks. But this rule sucks


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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:35 pm 
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Two hands on the player and he's down. How far away from that are we really? That makes it no benefit for the offensive player to try to initiate contact with his head or any other part of his body as well as the defensive player. All they will care about is not getting touched. Then we'll almost be watching the NBA. Can't wait for that!

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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:35 pm 
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steelmann58 wrote:
I guess Ben does not have to worry about qb sneaks. But this rule sucks


All joking aside...I agree 100% that this rule is about liability and perception. I don't expect it to be called except when extremely egregious. Otherwise, it will be called a few times in meaningless games already decided to keep up appearances. And probably one or two sacrificial lambs in prime time games.

I can't imagine they'd actually legislate out the QB sneak. I don't think anyone in football, outside of Tomlin and Haley, want to take that play out.

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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:44 am 
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steelmann58 wrote:
I guess Ben does not have to worry about qb sneaks. But this rule sucks


So, what we're saying is, either Ben or someone on the Steelers staff was a man ahead of his time. Like Davinci.


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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:11 am 
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StillMadAtSlobber wrote:
R S wrote:
StillMadAtSlobber wrote:
This isn't half the issue you bedwetters think it is. It's about using the helmet, spearing, in the game.


They already had rules for that.


And they didn't think it was being called, so they made it another rule, with an ejection clause in there.


Officials couldn't eject a player for spearing? Hmmm...seems to me they have a bit of latitude for doing so.

Has it ever been done before? Not to my knowledge, but maybe that's because a ref never had the spine to do it before


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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:23 am 
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I heard a comparison to the NHL rule about hitting player's wrists. The problem they had was that they were getting a lot of broken wrists because of players striking other player's wrists as a part of a defensive move. The NHL made a rule to make it illegal. There was and uproar and the first 2 weeks of the season there was chaos. Since then they have had no broken wrists and everything seems to be moving forward.

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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:29 am 
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Before I comment, I just want to say I AM NOT going to read the whole thread to see if this has been mentioned, but...

What about a ball carrier running forward who puts his head down to make an extra yard?


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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:32 am 
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Nick79 wrote:
Before I comment, I just want to say I AM NOT going to read the whole thread to see if this has been mentioned, but...

What about a ball carrier running forward who puts his head down to make an extra yard?

Against the rules, and expected to be enforced... somehow.

Tim Benz's article today nails it:
Quote:
Tim Benz: NFL's new helmet rule about owner safety, not player safety


http://triblive.com/sports/columnists/timbenz/13476977-74/tim-benz-nfls-new-helmet-rule-about-owner-safety-not-player-safety

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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:04 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Nick79 wrote:
Before I comment, I just want to say I AM NOT going to read the whole thread to see if this has been mentioned, but...

What about a ball carrier running forward who puts his head down to make an extra yard?

Against the rules, and expected to be enforced... somehow.

Tim Benz's article today nails it:
Quote:
Tim Benz: NFL's new helmet rule about owner safety, not player safety


http://triblive.com/sports/columnists/timbenz/13476977-74/tim-benz-nfls-new-helmet-rule-about-owner-safety-not-player-safety


WOW! that happens constantly, that's ingrained in ball carriers from childhood, that will be practically impossible to unlearn.


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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:59 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:01 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
Image

Hmmm...shouldn’t that be,
“What you have learned, unlearn you must”?

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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:39 pm 
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These new rules just reinforces my idea of wanting to draft for offense over defense. The days of having great defenses are over. The NFL wants high scoring games, a lot of points, they want lead changes, they want games decided in the last two minutes.

That is why you keep adding pieces to your offense, the NFL is all about who scores last and how many points can you score to keep up with the best teams.

This new rule though doesn't it go against the laws of nature? How are you supposed to tackle somebody without the head being lowered in some way? Same with a RB running with the ball. One thing for sure though, you will see more defensive players ejected and thus advantage to the offense.

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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:51 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
These new rules just reinforces my idea of wanting to draft for offense over defense. The days of having great defenses are over. The NFL wants high scoring games, a lot of points, they want lead changes, they want games decided in the last two minutes.

That is why you keep adding pieces to your offense, the NFL is all about who scores last and how many points can you score to keep up with the best teams.

This new rule though doesn't it go against the laws of nature? How are you supposed to tackle somebody without the head being lowered in some way? Same with a RB running with the ball. One thing for sure though, you will see more defensive players ejected and thus advantage to the offense.



Keep in mind the rule is worded as (paraphrasing) “make it illegal to intentionally target another player’s helmet using your own helmet”.

So it’s essentially the NFL’s spin on college’s targeting rule.

Tackling a guy and having your helmet hit his chest still isn’t a penalty. Hell, tackling a guy having your helmet hit his helmet should theoretically be legal.

This is more for when a player lowers his helmet with the intent of targeting another player’s helmet.

Now that’s the theory.

The realistic side of this is that the NFL will likely tell the refs that this is a “point of emphasis” and it’ll get called in a bunch of situations where it shouldn’t, much like the defenseless receiver rules did when they were first put into place.

Even still, though, I don’t think 99% of tackles will be affected by this. I think it’ll be more of an extension of the NFL’s wish to be able to flag any hits to the head that look particularly violent.


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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:08 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:
Image

Hmmm...shouldn’t that be,
“What you have learned, unlearn you must”?

Correct you may be.


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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:13 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:
Image

Hmmm...shouldn’t that be,
“What you have learned, unlearn you must”?

Correct you may be.

Yeah...letting my inner nerd hang out.

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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:16 am 
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Everyone is freaking out over this new rule....

It's going to be a "rare" judgement call. Basically another "DPI" refs can use to alter games, but it won't necessarily "ruin" the game.


As I've said a few times before....when Ben is done, then I'm done with the NFL.

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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:23 am 
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StillMadAtSlobber wrote:
This isn't half the issue you bedwetters think it is. It's about using the helmet, spearing, in the game.



Slobber is correct. The spirit of the rule is to not intentionally use your helmet, the crown of your head to be the initial point of contact. To launch your helmet as a weapon. It goes for both offensive and defensive players. Been a rule in Canadian amateur football for years, probably US amateur as well(not sure). It gets called once every 5 games that I am involved with.

Frankly the Shazier injury "could" be seen as this type of infraction and you see what could happen.

A running back running between the tackles with his head down is not trying to initiate contact, hence no problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:04 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
StillMadAtSlobber wrote:

And they didn't think it was being called, so they made it another rule, with an ejection clause in there.


Officials couldn't eject a player for spearing? Hmmm...seems to me they have a bit of latitude for doing so.

Has it ever been done before? Not to my knowledge, but maybe that's because a ref never had the spine to do it before


Officials are insanely paranoid about ejecting players. The rules changed for 2 personals being an ejection and I don't think that happened once.

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R S wrote:
I'm sure she still wakes up in cold sweats and night terrors of Peyton's wrinkly ball sack pitter-pattering on her forehead.


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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:52 am 
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Quote:
“I just can’t wait until the referees come into training camp like they do every year, and they show us the videos of what to do and not do in the rule changes,” DeCastro said. “I just can’t wait to see it because I have no idea what they’re talking about. It doesn’t make any sense to me.”

“You’re taught from a young age, the low man wins,” DeCastro said. “Get your head lower than theirs. It’s like the nature of the game. You might as well take the ball away while you’re at it.”

“We’re going to look like sumo wrestlers,” DeCastro said. “Put our bellies against each other.”

“I’m really happy if that means they cannot bull rush, leading with the head,” he said. “That takes away one pass rush move. But I’m with Dave. What I don’t want is an ambiguous rule. They’re not going to call it on a bull rush but they are on a [guard] pull, if Dave hits a linebacker with the head because he’s trying to get lower? I don’t know how you can call it without making the game like flag football.”

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/joe- ... 1804050157
Might as well put the flags on and get it over with already. I think this rule maybe implemented for a short time and largely ignored as the season progresses. I think it's a huge mistake and likely will cost the NFL more casual fans than they believe if they make the rule 'permanent'. I think this pre-season and regular season will be the experiment for this rule. I agree with DeCastro/Villanueva it's doomed to fail and stupid. Another dumb idea that guys have to be thinking about while playing as fast as they can. I believe that makes more risk of injury. We'll see.


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 Post subject: Re: Lowering head to initiate contact with the helmet
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:10 pm 
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Goofwell says it's going to depend on the replay tape. You are going to have constant game interruptions.


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