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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:53 pm 
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I do think that OC’s under Tomlin have a lot of autonomy because the offense with Arians as OC looked a lot different than the offense with Haley as OC. For example, with a 3rd and 20 under Arians, we throw the ball 20 yards often picking up the first down. With a 3rd and 20 under Haley, we run a draw and punt.

I’m thinking of a situation that annoyed Swiss, but I’m fuzzy on the details so I’ll make them up as I go. It’s the AFCCG vs. the Jets. The Steelers have the ball late with a narrow lead facing a critical 3rd and long. The way the Jets moved the ball in the second half made you think that if they got the ball back they would win. So they complete a long pass to Brown(?) to clinch the win. It’s the play where you saw Ryan throw his headphones to the ground after.

Tomlin was miked for the game, and before the play Arians comes and asks him what he wants to do. What annoyed Swiss was Tomlin saying “call your play, BA.” Rather than calling a play himself, Tomlin let Arians call it. So Arians, being Arians, calls the deep pass to clinch the win.

This doesn’t make Tomlin a potted plant, but his OC’s have a great deal of latitude. It won’t surprise me to see the offense look very different under Fich in terms of philosophy and situational game calling. Why wouldn’t Tomlin intercede with Haley to change things that weren’t working? Dunno, but he let him do his thing and then just let him leave when his contract expired. I expect Fich will be allowed to do what he wants as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:02 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
I do think that OC’s under Tomlin have a lot of autonomy because the offense with Arians as OC looked a lot different than the offense with Haley as OC. For example, with a 3rd and 20 under Arians, we throw the ball 20 yards often picking up the first down. With a 3rd and 20 under Haley, we run a draw and punt.

I’m thinking of a situation that annoyed Swiss, but I’m fuzzy on the details so I’ll make them up as I go. It’s the AFCCG vs. the Jets. The Steelers have the ball late with a narrow lead facing a critical 3rd and long. The way the Jets moved the ball in the second half made you think that if they got the ball back they would win. So they complete a long pass to Brown(?) to clinch the win. It’s the play where you saw Ryan throw his headphones to the ground after.

Tomlin was miked for the game, and before the play Arians comes and asks him what he wants to do. What annoyed Swiss was Tomlin saying “call your play, BA.” Rather than calling a play himself, Tomlin let Arians call it. So Arians, being Arians, calls the deep pass to clinch the win.

This doesn’t make Tomlin a potted plant, but his OC’s have a great deal of latitude. It won’t surprise me to see the offense look very different under Fich in terms of philosophy and situational game calling. Why wouldn’t Tomlin intercede with Haley to change things that weren’t working? Dunno, but he let him do his thing and then just let him leave when his contract expired. I expect Fich will be allowed to do what he wants as well.

If it’s the play I’m thinking of, likely is, it wasn’t a long pass. Ben rolled right and hit AB for about 7-8 yards to clinch the game...

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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:21 pm 
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If it is the game I am thinking about it was for 14 yards to Brown. That was another one of those fine examples of that great Dick LeBeau defense. The offense creates a 24-0 lead by halftime and then the defense allows the JETs to come back 24-19. Yeah, that defense ALWAYS carried the offense, where would Ben be without that great defense back in the day? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:39 pm 
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955876 wrote:
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The logic about the pick was PR. All the way.


Are they running a professional sports team or a warm & fuzzy publicity organization?

If getting a feel good story in the local papers is driving draft choices then a house cleaning of all involved needs to happen.


We do what we do.

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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:45 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
955876 wrote:
Quote:
The logic about the pick was PR. All the way.


Are they running a professional sports team or a warm & fuzzy publicity organization?

If getting a feel good story in the local papers is driving draft choices then a house cleaning of all involved needs to happen.


We do what we do.

You want to fire ownership? They're the ones in the old friends/family/second chances/charity business.

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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:27 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
If it is the game I am thinking about it was for 14 yards to Brown. That was another one of those fine examples of that great Dick LeBeau defense. The offense creates a 24-0 lead by halftime and then the defense allows the JETs to come back 24-19. Yeah, that defense ALWAYS carried the offense, where would Ben be without that great defense back in the day? :lol:

It struck me as being a longer pass than that, but maybe it was just the high pressure situation making it seem longer.

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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:24 am 
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Doesn’t matter what game it was as it really isn’t an apples to apples comparison to what we are discussing.

That is one play. Maybe he liked the way Bruce was calling the game that day and trusted a decent play would be called.

We are talking about a trend occurring over several games and stretches of season. Certainly enough for a HC to notice the predominant trend and work that stuff out with his OC at meetings, film review etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:38 am 
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955876 wrote:
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The logic about the pick was PR. All the way.


Are they running a professional sports team or a warm & fuzzy publicity organization?

If getting a feel good story in the local papers is driving draft choices then a house cleaning of all involved needs to happen.


There is a large portion of the fanbase that is convinced Tomlin only got the job because of the Rooney Rule and the NFL forcing the issue.

If that can be believed so easily by so many (perhaps even you) then why is it unfathomable that they'd honor James Conner by drafting him with the last pick on Day 2 so ESPN can talk him up one more time and the Steelers get the "local kid does good" storyline so many yinzers eat up?

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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:24 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
If it is the game I am thinking about it was for 14 yards to Brown. That was another one of those fine examples of that great Dick LeBeau defense. The offense creates a 24-0 lead by halftime and then the defense allows the JETs to come back 24-19. Yeah, that defense ALWAYS carried the offense, where would Ben be without that great defense back in the day? :lol:


Defense scored seven of those points and also stopped the Jets inside the five yard line in the second half.

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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
If it is the game I am thinking about it was for 14 yards to Brown. That was another one of those fine examples of that great Dick LeBeau defense. The offense creates a 24-0 lead by halftime and then the defense allows the JETs to come back 24-19. Yeah, that defense ALWAYS carried the offense, where would Ben be without that great defense back in the day? :lol:


I was there

That game was OVER at half

But....led by the great Mark Sanchez, the Jets made it a game in the 2nd half

We have been historically bad vs historically bad QBs

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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:57 pm 
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Ice wrote:
There should really, at this point, just be a separate forum for all Tomlin related argument.

Unfortunately, as I've learned this off-season, every single thread would end up there.
Yup. I call it confirmation bias and the dunning- kruger effect.

It also reflects negatively on you if you constantly bash something, and then realize you were wrong. You'd rather continue bashing it to preserve your world view than to admit to yourself you were wrong for so long. Or even have enough humility to maybe, just maybe there is another point of view, and/ or repeating the same shit over and over is tired and boring.

I just can't see the arrogance and overconfidence people have over GM and HC issues without having all the facts and data. I can understand analyzing and dissecting in-game decisions, strategy, draft pics, etc. I also understand forums and posting opinions, but when the narrow minded arguments are the same and repeated incessantly while ignoring others, it makes you wonder. I had someone tell me once that when you repeat yourself, you aren't doing it for others, you are doing it stroke your own ego. There is some truth to that. Some people here have been repeating the same invalid, made up, self-important arguments for a number of years.

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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:33 pm 
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Quote:
It also reflects negatively on you if you constantly bash something, and then realize you were wrong. You'd rather continue bashing it to preserve your world view than to admit to yourself you were wrong for so long. Or even have enough humility to maybe, just maybe there is another point of view, and/ or repeating the same shit over and over is tired and boring.


And what is it exactly that these people are “wrong” about?

And many of the things you are accusing others of doing are the very things those who blindly support any and all things Mike Tomlin do.

Even if they have been shown their opinion may in fact be the “wrong” one they continue to repeat or bash those that disagree with them. So maybe it’s them that should show some humility and admit that in some cases THEY have been wrong.

Bigger picture, you people that constantly bitch & moan about what others post on a football message board need to get a grip. You are in no way the authority on what others say. Don’t like it, either debate their point or move along.

Sadly people like yourself are not capable of doing such things. It’s people that think like you that like to censure and silence those who disagree with your opinions as well as try to belittle them.

It’s a big part of your “playbook”...

Or is it simply you have a huge man crush on MT and take it personal when somebody says something negative bout your boy?


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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:44 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
It also reflects negatively on you if you constantly bash something, and then realize you were wrong. You'd rather continue bashing it to preserve your world view than to admit to yourself you were wrong for so long. Or even have enough humility to maybe, just maybe there is another point of view, and/ or repeating the same shit over and over is tired and boring.


And what is it exactly that these people are “wrong” about?

And many of the things you are accusing others of doing are the very things those who blindly support any and all things Mike Tomlin do.

Even if they have been shown their opinion may in fact be the “wrong” one they continue to repeat or bash those that disagree with them. So maybe it’s them that should show some humility and admit that in some cases THEY have been wrong.

Bigger picture, you people that constantly bitch & moan about what others post on a football message board need to get a grip. You are in no way the authority on what others say. Don’t like it, either debate their point or move along.

Sadly people like yourself are not capable of doing such things. It’s people that think like you that like to censure and silence those who disagree with your opinions as well as try to belittle them.

It’s a big part of your “playbook”...

Or is it simply you have a huge man crush on MT and take it personal when somebody says something negative bout your boy?


I’m including myself here, but serious people don’t spend a lot of time on message boards, period. They have better things to do. :shock:

So...we’re all losers in our own special way. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:58 pm 
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There is a large portion of the fanbase that is convinced Tomlin only got the job because of the Rooney Rule and the NFL forcing the issue.

If that can be believed so easily by so many (perhaps even you) then why is it unfathomable that they'd honor James Conner by drafting him with the last pick on Day 2 so ESPN can talk him up one more time and the Steelers get the "local kid does good" storyline so many yinzers eat up?


You were the one that stated the Connor pick was all PR. Was that your opinion or is it rooted in some sort of fact?

And it’s “unfathomable” to think that because it would be an extremely misguided reason for selecting a player. You are saying the team would actually draft a local kid just so a feel good story can get written in the local paper and people are supposed to be ok with that ridiculous thought process?

And in regards to the “Rooney Rule” and Tomlin’s hire, I personally think while they might have wanted to honor the rule, that wasn’t the reason he was hired.

He was hired because when he speaks he came across as a very bright football coach that said all the right things. I know I bought in and was very impressed with Tomlin.

At first. But that’s waned after what he’s put on tape.


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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:03 pm 
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I just can't see the arrogance and overconfidence people have over GM and HC issues without having all the facts and data.


You act as if we don’t have 11 seasons along with 191 games of data that has shaped and formed the opinions that are being discussed here.

And those 191 games don’t include preseason.

I’d also be willing to bet a majority of the people that have lost faith in MT were actually supporters of his in the past. I know that’s the camp I reside in.

So your post was pretty much hyperbole.


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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:19 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
955876 wrote:
Quote:
It also reflects negatively on you if you constantly bash something, and then realize you were wrong. You'd rather continue bashing it to preserve your world view than to admit to yourself you were wrong for so long. Or even have enough humility to maybe, just maybe there is another point of view, and/ or repeating the same shit over and over is tired and boring.


And what is it exactly that these people are “wrong” about?

And many of the things you are accusing others of doing are the very things those who blindly support any and all things Mike Tomlin do.

Even if they have been shown their opinion may in fact be the “wrong” one they continue to repeat or bash those that disagree with them. So maybe it’s them that should show some humility and admit that in some cases THEY have been wrong.

Bigger picture, you people that constantly bitch & moan about what others post on a football message board need to get a grip. You are in no way the authority on what others say. Don’t like it, either debate their point or move along.

Sadly people like yourself are not capable of doing such things. It’s people that think like you that like to censure and silence those who disagree with your opinions as well as try to belittle them.

It’s a big part of your “playbook”...

Or is it simply you have a huge man crush on MT and take it personal when somebody says something negative bout your boy?


I’m including myself here, but serious people don’t spend a lot of time on message boards, period. They have better things to do. :shock:

So...we’re all losers in our own special way. :D


Meh. I think we have all walks here. From unemployed basement dwellers to the highly successful & serious.

Some use it to fill a void and some do so as a means of decompressing from all the serious shit they actually do have to deal with.


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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:43 pm 
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I’m employed/employable

I think it’s a 60/40 here.....60% working and being productive

40% basement dwellers receiving govt aid

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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:45 pm 
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That's why Lit said "in our own special way" I can't disagree with him there. There is a bit of loser factor in spending a lot of time arguing about sports on a message board with complete strangers. I supposed it's become more mainstream now with people arguing if the sky is blue on facebook. But since a lot of us have been here before the universal use of social media, we should consider ourselves trailblazers in online loserdom.... :lol:

With Jeemie being the queen of it all.

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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:04 pm 
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R S wrote:
That's why Lit said "in our own special way" I can't disagree with him there. There is a bit of loser factor in spending a lot of time arguing about sports on a message board with complete strangers. I supposed it's become more mainstream now with people arguing if the sky is blue on facebook. But since a lot of us have been here before the universal use of social media, we should consider ourselves trailblazers in online loserdom.... :lol:

With Jeemie being the queen of it all.


Excellent point about us being here before social media

I now feel better about myself.

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:13 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
R S wrote:
That's why Lit said "in our own special way" I can't disagree with him there. There is a bit of loser factor in spending a lot of time arguing about sports on a message board with complete strangers. I supposed it's become more mainstream now with people arguing if the sky is blue on facebook. But since a lot of us have been here before the universal use of social media, we should consider ourselves trailblazers in online loserdom.... :lol:

With Jeemie being the queen of it all.


Excellent point about us being here before social media

I now feel better about myself.

Thanks
Would you like a brand new spanking iphone or samsung to make you feel better? It has all the new features.

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 Post subject: Re: Life after Bell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:17 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
BarryFoster wrote:
R S wrote:
That's why Lit said "in our own special way" I can't disagree with him there. There is a bit of loser factor in spending a lot of time arguing about sports on a message board with complete strangers. I supposed it's become more mainstream now with people arguing if the sky is blue on facebook. But since a lot of us have been here before the universal use of social media, we should consider ourselves trailblazers in online loserdom.... :lol:

With Jeemie being the queen of it all.


Excellent point about us being here before social media

I now feel better about myself.

Thanks
Would you like a brand new spanking iphone or samsung to make you feel better? It has all the new features.


I’m currently content with my iPhone 6plus

May upgrade in the next several months.....my Verizon bill for me, my wife and two teenagers is like a decent car payment. Fucking phones.

I’m able to post on this site quite well with my current phone.

If I’m missing some new cutting edge technology that could make my experience here even better.....please I’m all ears.

Wonder what Jeemie uses to post so frequently?

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