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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:22 am 
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burghboy wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
I swear, either the lot of you have never managed people in your life or your managing skills are highly questionable. It may be that Bell needs a father figure to set him straight, and it may be that he needs someone to believe in him, and it may well be that he needs both and not necessarily from the same person.


I would NEVER go to an employee and tell them "if it were up to me, I'd give you a blank check" or anything that encourages them to demand a raise or find a better offer elsewhere. That's called shooting yourself in the foot.

Nothing wrong with telling Bell you believe in him or however you let him know. But there are WRONG ways to do it, and Dumblin chose the wrong way.

It's also really stupid because everyone knows Tomlin DOES have a role in these negotiations. He does have the ear of Colbert, so when he says "I'd give you a blank check", that's a HORRIBLE negotiating tactic....unless you're Bell or his agent.


I agree with this 100 percent. There is a huge chasm between encouraging and building someone up and going to the lengths Tomlin supposedly reached for with his blank check BS. It's not hard to encourage people without telling them they are the best thing since sliced bread, most of us do it on the daily. Homie needs to read the room a bit better in this instance his audience wasn't ready for that level of hyperbole.


If we're admitting it's hyperbole, then the point (absent of furthering an existing agenda) of getting pissed off about it is, what, exactly?


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:14 pm 
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Ice wrote:
If we're admitting it's hyperbole, then the point (absent of furthering an existing agenda) of getting pissed off about it is, what, exactly?


Aside from more evidence Tomlin isn't good at his job, I'm not sure what your point is.

Telling someone you'd give them a blank check is how you HANDLE someone, and not how you manage someone. There is nothing about that statement that reflects well on Tomlin. But nuthuggers gonna nuthug....

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:18 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Aside from more evidence Tomlin isn't good at his job, I'm not sure what your point is.


The agenda to which I was referring. Cowher once said almost exactly the same thing to Jerome Bettis, for instance.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:41 pm 
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If Bell doesn't shut his yap, I can envision the franchise tag being recinded and a couple of free agents signed. There are a number of free agent running backs around with production equal to Bell's. Save the $14m and sign a RB plus a WR for half the money.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:45 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
Aside from more evidence Tomlin isn't good at his job, I'm not sure what your point is.


The agenda to which I was referring. Cowher once said almost exactly the same thing to Jerome Bettis, for instance.


Funny, I don't remember Bettis holding out or turning down a contract offer...

Like I said, you're ignoring how Cowher handled this with Hines Ward. Hines Ward came to camp. Stop making excuses for Tomlin - being a buddy is not being a leader or coach.

There's no agenda - just pointing out facts. Where's your link of Cowher telling holdouts he'd give them a blank check? Yeah, when you write it plainly and simply it sounds really fucking stupid (because it is).

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Last edited by Kodiak on Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:46 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
Fraudlin’s responsibility lies with the team, not any individual player. Bell’s conduct over the years has been really selfish, me first, make a rap song, yada yada. One week he sounds like a great teammate, the next week he sounds like a dickbag.

It’s no mystery that I don’t like Fraudlin’s coaching style. I don’t like that he seems to defer to the players “Le’veon Is gonna be Le’veon”. He needs to be less of the “cool parent” to these guys.

What if it's in the interest of the team to make his insecure RB feel like the Coach believes in him 100%.

I swear, either the lot of you have never managed people in your life or your managing skills are highly questionable. It may be that Bell needs a father figure to set him straight, and it may be that he needs someone to believe in him, and it may well be that he needs both and not necessarily from the same person.


B2B...please...that was not a display of good management skills by Mike Tomlin.

Plenty of other ways to encourage Bell other than feeding into his over-estimation of his own worth.

The Eagles and Patriots reached the Super Bowl paying a stable of six running backs a total of about $4 million and got comparable production. Bell’s a very good player, but it’s not a team-breaker if he walks.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:53 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
B2B...please...that was not a display of good management skills by Mike Tomlin.


Your problem is that you're being objective. When you realize Tomlin can do no wrong and isn't accountable for anything....well, forget anything you know about management and just simply admire Mike Tomlin.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:05 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Ice wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
Aside from more evidence Tomlin isn't good at his job, I'm not sure what your point is.


The agenda to which I was referring. Cowher once said almost exactly the same thing to Jerome Bettis, for instance.


Funny, I don't remember Bettis holding out or turning down a contract offer...

Like I said, you're ignoring how Cowher handled this with Hines Ward. Hines Ward came to camp. Stop making excuses for Tomlin - being a buddy is not being a leader or coach.

There's no agenda - just pointing out facts. Where's your link of Cowher telling holdouts he'd give them a blank check? Yeah, when you write it plainly and simply it sounds really fucking stupid (because it is).


Cowher telling Bettis "This is your f***ing city, I'm going to keep you here for a while" is on about 1,000 NFLN special productions. It's about the same level of hyperbole, if not a little higher, than you are accusing Tomlin of. If you don't remember Hines' antics, well, I'd have to guess you're being a little selective. Have to agree to disagree, I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Cowher telling Bettis "This is your f***ing city, I'm going to keep you here for a while" is on about 1,000 NFLN special productions. It's about the same level of hyperbole, if not a little higher, than you are accusing Tomlin of. If you don't remember Hines' antics, well, I'd have to guess you're being a little selective. Have to agree to disagree, I guess.


Bettis wasn't a hold out. And didn't hold out. Big fucking difference, wouldn't you agree?

Cowher called up Hines and got him in camp. Cowher was 100X the leader Tomlin pretends to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:07 pm 
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I am hoping that re-structuring Tuit and Decastro
And then re-structring AB.
Releasing Gay,
And maybe Mitchell and Wilcox.
With Ben a possible extension - redcution in 2018 cap hit....................


Is not all to help fit a new contract for Bell.

Trade him to Cleveland for some of their 2nd and 3rd round picks.

The Browns have the first pick of the 2nd round ( 33 ) third pick of 2nd round ( 35 ) and last pick in round 2 ( 64 )
And they have the first pick in the 3rd round ( 65 )
And 1st pick of 4th round ( 101 ) 23rd pick of 4th round ( 123 )
And 1st pick of 5th round ( 138 )



Holly crap.

1 ( 1 )
1 ( 4 )
2 ( 33 )
2 ( 35 )
2 ( 64 )
3 ( 65 )
4 ( 101 )
4 ( 123 )
5 ( 138 )

Nine of first 138 picks.

I will take picks 33 and 64 for Bell.
Or 35 and 65

Would they trade that away for Bell?
Do not under estimate a team that would love to grab Bell to play against the Steelers twice a year with a chance for both the Browns and Bell to stick it to the Steelers.
Of course Bell would have to work out a long term deal with the Browns, but the Browns have loads of Cash and Bell wants loads of cash.

How about picks 33 and 101 for Bell.
Or 64 and 65.

Draft a Sony Michel with one of those picks and spend the $14.5 million on a safety, ILB, 4th WR and vet RB

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:11 pm 
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I missed have missed something, did Tomlin make some sort of outlandish comment about Bell and/or his worth?


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:13 pm 
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Wow Ice...that is really stretching things.

He said that to Bettis...in 1996...Bettis’ FIRST YEAR HERE.

He didn’t say that in a contract year!

And it’s nowhere close to what Tomlin said to Bell.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:25 pm 
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Read earlier posts.

GreekSteel wrote:
I missed have missed something, did Tomlin make some sort of outlandish comment about Bell and/or his worth?


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:29 pm 
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Holding this against Tomlin is classic nitpicking. I would hope Bell is smart to realize it was a form of flattery and not meant to be taken literally. This will have next to 0 impact on contract negotiations.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:35 pm 
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StillerInCT wrote:
Holding this against Tomlin is classic nitpicking. I would hope Bell is smart to realize it was a form of flattery and not meant to be taken literally. This will have next to 0 impact on contract negotiations.


This. Coaches do this all the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:40 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Cowher was 100X the leader Tomlin pretends to be.


Now that's some fine hyperbole. I'm willing to say it makes you at least 3.7 times the hyperbolator that Mike Tomlin pretends to be.

Like I said, agree to disagree.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:14 pm 
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I liken it to the way directors talk to talent on a hollywood set.

Director to Actor: Take whatever time you need... I love what you do and this movie is going to show everyone what a star you are!
Director to Producer: WTF is up with this chump? Totally unprepared! I can't work with this. Taking forever and putting us behind schedule!
Producer to Agent: We are having some issues-- is the Actor unhappy with us? Can I do anything to make it better for him?
Agent to Actor: Dude. What are you doing... they're totally ready to fire you!!!

The Producer or Director might bring up that the actor has an inflated view of his worth in contract negotiations, but they're sure as hell not doing it to the talent's face.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:57 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Wow Ice...that is really stretching things.

He said that to Bettis...in 1996...Bettis’ FIRST YEAR HERE.

He didn’t say that in a contract year!

And it’s nowhere close to what Tomlin said to Bell.


I don't think it matters when it was said, honestly. It's a coach pumping his player up.

Cowher and Bettis may have had a slightly different verbal shorthand than Tomlin does with Bell, but the sentiment implied about the player is pretty similar. "I'm going to keep you here for a long time" to a professional football player pretty much implies that the necessary money will be there. The difference between that and "blank check," or whatever, is basically semantics, unless you really, really want to make something out of not very much.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:33 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Ice wrote:
Cowher telling Bettis "This is your f***ing city, I'm going to keep you here for a while" is on about 1,000 NFLN special productions. It's about the same level of hyperbole, if not a little higher, than you are accusing Tomlin of. If you don't remember Hines' antics, well, I'd have to guess you're being a little selective. Have to agree to disagree, I guess.


Bettis wasn't a hold out. And didn't hold out. Big fucking difference, wouldn't you agree?

Cowher called up Hines and got him in camp. Cowher was 100X the leader Tomlin pretends to be.


Hines was....

- A team leader
- As much of a team-first player you will find at the WR position

He also was...

- Not the best WR in the league
- Not a generational player
- Not as much of a diva as Bell (not saying he wasn't a diva, just not as much of one)

So comparing the two situations doesn't really hold water.

I will say this, Colbert and Cowher put together a special group of selfless players.

- Aaron Smith
- Casey Hampton
- Kimo Von Olhoffen
- Brett Keisel
- James Farrior
- Larry Foote
- Ike Taylor
- Troy Polamalu
- Jerome Bettis
- Jeff Hartings
- Marvel Smith
- Willie Parker
- Hines Ward
- Dan Kreider
- Heath Miller

Even guys that were more outspoken like Porter and Faneca were team leaders, though Faneca tarnished his reputation in 2007.

I've supported Tomlin, and I continue to do so, but we won championships because of the guys in that locker room. They had some superstars... Ben Roethlisberger, Troy Polamalu, James Harrison, to name a few. But the team consisted mostly of very good to solid football players who played well as a team and were singularly focused on winning championships. They were fun to root for, too.

I look at the team now... I don't see that level of cohesiveness and selflessness. Tomlin hasn't been able to coheres them to cohere, as Ron might say. I don't know if that's just what the league has turned into -- though I suspect it might be. One thing I do know, this team needs more James Farriors, Aaron Smiths, and Jerome Bettises than it has right now.


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