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 Post subject: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:54 am 
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28. Pittsburgh Steelers
*Leighton Vander Esch, LB, Boise State

Vander Esch is a name I continue to hear for the end of the first round. I expect him to put up strong numbers at the combine. At 6-4, 240, he has the versatility to play outside linebacker, but I think his best fit is as an inside 'backer in a 3-4. He's a physical run-stopper who can defend tight ends and running backs -- he had three interceptions in 2017. Inside linebacker is an obvious need for the Steelers, who will have to replace Ryan Shazier. This is also a spot where I could see a team trading up to grab Louisville quarterback and 2016 Heisman Trophy winner Lamar Jackson, who I think will be the fifth QB off the board.


Discuss...

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:13 am 
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Not a bigtime impact player IMO>


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:13 am 
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I'd be good with this. I think by the time the draft rolls around, he will be a definite first rounder. Kiper is right, he is going to blow up the combine.

I also like option 2 in his analysis of trading back for a team that wants Lamar Jackson.


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:25 pm 
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Shazier blew up the combine. I do not think LVEblows up the combine. I do think he makes far fewer false steps than either Smith or Evans. He is quick to read and react.

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:02 pm 
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I've seen mock after mock 9'ers and Raiduhs both taking ILB's. Smith and Edmunds off the board in the top 10. Can't explain it but that's what guys are mocking right now. I've even seen a mock that had the Steelers taking RB Guice @ 28 passing on Derwin James who goes to the vikes. Even if Bell doesn't sign no fucking way am I even looking at RB till second day. James would be grand larceny. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... on-barkley

IMO Vander Esch is a solid 2nd RND'er even after his combine. Reading up on him, he is not known to be that athletically gifted. His gifts are motor and football savvy. Which IMO make him a perfect end of the 2nd RND pick somewhere around 60. :mrgreen: If he's drafted in the 1st RND I will be surprised. This draft is going to have runs on secondary and QB in the 1st RND, I'm thinking. Unusually deep corner and safety draft this year. DLine is also deep as is RB. As usual qb needy teams will reach for their 'franchise' as to be expected. JMO


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:05 pm 
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LVE is a baller. Whether he's worth a 1st round pick is a different question. Whether he fits the Steelers, yet another.

Even what the Steelers are really looking for in LBs is somewhat of an open question. I think we'll know more once pro days start and we see where Colbert/Tomlin go.

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Vita Vea but he will Be long gone I am afraid


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:19 pm 
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He impressed me in coverage. good awareness of zones, Many will probably consider him a ham -n-egger

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:35 pm 
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I really like this player for the Steelers. Paired with Matakevich, I think we'd be pretty solid through the middle for the foreseeable future.


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:20 pm 
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R S wrote:
He impressed me in coverage. good awareness of zones, Many will probably consider him a ham -n-egger

I don't. I think he's going to test well and he can cover.

He scored over 70 TDs... in his senior year of H.S. = FOOTBALL PLAYER.

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:27 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
R S wrote:
He impressed me in coverage. good awareness of zones, Many will probably consider him a ham -n-egger

I don't. I think he's going to test well and he can cover.

He scored over 70 TDs... in his senior year of H.S. = FOOTBALL PLAYER.

70 TDS in one season??? :shock: Holy hell!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
R S wrote:
He impressed me in coverage. good awareness of zones, Many will probably consider him a ham -n-egger

I don't. I think he's going to test well and he can cover.

He scored over 70 TDs... in his senior year of H.S. = FOOTBALL PLAYER.

70 TDS in one season??? :shock: Holy hell!!!


Wonder how high school stats can be used to gauge pro careers......

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:38 pm 
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I know it's from PFF, but....(I personally haven't seen him play a ton, but I liked what I saw when I did).

The first thing one notices about Vander Esch is his size — 6-foot-3, 240-pounds — and more specifically, his height combined with long arms gives him outstanding length for the position. Vander Esch can shrink second-level passing windows with his length and bat down passes to wide receivers he’s not even covering. He also uses his long arms to defeat blockers and make difficult tackles in space. Against the run, Vander Esch has the eyes to find the ball and has a knack for sliding past blockers to make a run stop. Vander Esch had 57 run stops and a run-stop percentage of 15.9, both marks ranked No. 1 among all FBS inside linebackers. He uses his long stride to quickly cover ground on outside runs and is also a productive pass-rusher when asked, generating four sacks, two QB hits, 12 hurries and one batted pass on his 98 pass-rushing snaps.

Vander Esch can use his athleticism to make a quick lateral move around a blocker or he can use his strength to bull-rush a blocker and he’s also very difficult for RBs to handle in pass protection.


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:21 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
Wonder how high school stats can be used to gauge pro careers......

Just saying that he's like the guy you'd draft first in a pickup game... threw for TDs, ran for TDs, had INTs for TDs, returned kicks for TDs... he was one of the great 8 man football players ever.

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:30 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:

Wonder how high school stats can be used to gauge pro careers......


Same as college. Wrist circumference

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:33 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:

Wonder how high school stats can be used to gauge pro careers......


I dunno, but I can tell you one thing. I was one HECK of a good football player in jr high school.


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:51 pm 
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I'll be very honest, I am not a big fan. I think he is being massively over-hyped. His tape isn't great and I think he appears stiff.

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:20 pm 
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smithessmokin wrote:
I'll be very honest, I am not a big fan. I think he is being massively over-hyped. His tape isn't great and I think he appears stiff.


So...perfect in Tomlin’s defense?

He intrigues me, but I don’t know about 1.28


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:29 pm 
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Lynch wrote:
BarryFoster wrote:

Wonder how high school stats can be used to gauge pro careers......


I dunno, but I can tell you one thing. I was one HECK of a good football player in jr high school.


That's what happens when you get held back 5 years in a row...


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:51 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:

Wonder how high school stats can be used to gauge pro careers......


assuming they play in a decent conference -- future pro players usually dominate at the HS level


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:53 pm 
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smithessmokin wrote:
I'll be very honest, I am not a big fan. I think he is being massively over-hyped. His tape isn't great and I think he appears stiff.


so when dud dupree leaves, this guy will fit right in, and we'll never know that dud left


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:09 pm 
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smithessmokin wrote:
I'll be very honest, I am not a big fan. I think he is being massively over-hyped. His tape isn't great and I think he appears stiff.


I haven’t scrubbed tape on him yet. What’s your source of tape?

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:16 pm 
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I watched the following games of Leighton Vander Esch

2017

UVA
Washington State
Colorado State
Oregon

2016 you will struggle to find him.

My thoughts in mid Jan

Very Very soft at the point of attack
Horrible when engaged with a big
Medium size fish in a puddle sized pond
Not overly impressed in coverage
Slow feet
Takes false steps
Struggles to read blocking schemes
Zero explosion...He doesn't find and track
Plays tall/upright
Rarely beats a block

I would consider in round 6

Prefer Frank Ginda San Jose State
i

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:52 pm 
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FC wrote:
I watched the following games of Leighton Vander Esch

2017

UVA
Washington State
Colorado State
Oregon

2016 you will struggle to find him.

My thoughts in mid Jan

Very Very soft at the point of attack
Horrible when engaged with a big
Medium size fish in a puddle sized pond
Not overly impressed in coverage
Slow feet
Takes false steps
Struggles to read blocking schemes
Zero explosion...He doesn't find and track
Plays tall/upright
Rarely beats a block

I would consider in round 6

Prefer Frank Ginda San Jose State
i

FC, my brother, you are really really good at rooting out inside LBs who can fight off a block and have good instincts/few false steps. However, we all have our challenges, and yours is trying to embrace the new style NFL LB... the guy who might not be able to beat a block but he can run and he can cover TEs and RBs and WRs. I 100% agree that the characteristics you look for are really important and pretty rare; but a guy who is above the line as a run defender AND has great coverage skills beyond going to the flat with an RB or slow footed TE... those guys are INCREDIBLY rare... and we're currently trying to replace one that took two years to develop into that guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:00 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Lynch wrote:
BarryFoster wrote:

Wonder how high school stats can be used to gauge pro careers......


I dunno, but I can tell you one thing. I was one HECK of a good football player in jr high school.


That's what happens when you get held back 5 years in a row...


Lol... I WAS UNSTOPPABLE!!!


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